Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LII

[bobbop]

Here's what I think can happen, and truth be told, financially the following trade makes a ton of sense for the health of the league and one of their organizations. @bobbop Would love would thoughts. Plausible? Fair?

Why would ARI do this? Recent Events:

• Re-Coup some futures that they just traded away
• Re-Coup some of the futures that they just lost in the form of a 2020 2nd, and a 2021 1st has punishment
• Most Importantly, move ~$60M of hard cash obligations in their situation
• New ownership got hit hard by Covid

From ARI:

• Clayton Keller ($57.2M)- Guy that the Rangers wanted to trade McDonagh for a the 2016 draft, and has history with Quinn.
• Jordan Osterle ($1.6M)- Defensive Depth
• Aaron Ness ($325k)- Minor League LHD
• Robbie Russo ($425k)- Minor League RHD

From NYR:

• Pavel Buchnevich ($3.5m)- Outscored Clayton Keller in the NHL last year in fewer games.
• Brenden Lemeuix (RFA- ~$1.25M)
• Mathew Robertson (ELC) / Karl Henrikson (ELC)
• Lias Anderson (ELC) / 2021 3rd Round Pick
• 2020 1st Round Pick (22)

Might be a tad on the high side in terms of quantity, but if you think about it, this is a trade the Rangers can afford. Both in terms of asset management, the Rangers can certainly afford to pay a premium. The cap won't be an issue going forward. In Keller, you have a kid with Patrick Kane like skills who needs the type of work that Quinn would be great at helping with imo.

Oh and uh... he may be that 2nd line center that everyone has been craving. He's played the middle before.

No can do. I’m skeptical about Keller. He would do well in New York but not enough to justify that kind of money.

I wouldn’t want to trade always o much organizational depth for one player no matter how good he was.

 

[bobbop]

Laviolette isn't the coach for this roster

Actually he might be in the future, not now.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Actually he might be in the future, not now.

Gotta think Washington is very interested in bringing him in

 

[bobbop]

What I do think is plausible is something surrounding the Carolina pick. It puts the Coyotes back in the first round where they definitely need to be. I’ve long though Dvorak wasn’t possible but that may change. Nick Schmaltz could also be on the Rangers radar. If the Rangers want a short term plug on defense Nick Hjalmarsson would be a terrific add. There’s certainly something to talk about here.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Keller is not a good fit for this team.

The only big names that intrigue me from Arizona are Dvorak and Chychrun.

Hjalmarsson is cooked.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Keller is not a good fit for this team.

The only big names that intrigue me from Arizona are Dvorak and Chychrun.

Hjalmarsson is cooked.

Agreed, though I like Schmaltz too. He'd be an upgrade over Howden and it would allow Chytil to move to the wing. But 6M AAV is too much for a 3rd liner like Schmaltz.

 

[Mikos87]

Keller doesn't PK and he doesn't play center for Arizona. In the last 3 years he has taken 183 faceoffs, and has a 39.9 win percentage. He also has a 7.15 mil cap hit for the next 8 years. Yeah, he's still young and has been productive in prior years, but where are we getting the cap space to fit him in next year?

If we are trading Buch, it needs to be for a guy who actually plays center.

Fair enough, I think in a high octane system, he's a cost controlled 70+ point player, which for that cap hit, is worth it. I don't care about his ability to PK, the Rangers wouldn't need him for that.

You would have to convert him into a center, but I think that can be done.

No can do. I’m skeptical about Keller. He would do well in New York but not enough to justify that kind of money.

I wouldn’t want to trade always o much organizational depth for one player no matter how good he was.

Fair enough. I understand your skepticism, he hasn't shown signs of being an elite player, and got paid very early. Yes- he would need a lot of Prentice time, and yes he's a little different from some of his teammates. What it if it was a 4 pieces?

Essentially the Premium to turn Buchnevich into Keller is a 1st round pick, and pieces that the Rangers don't need, or can be made redundant, or will use in the next 3-4 years.

 

[Barnaby]

If Kreider was consistent, he’d be in the conversation for the best forward the Rangers ever drafted.

He’s certainly paid like he is!

 

[gravey9]

My thoughts on 2nd line center. The ideal is a Ryan O'Reilly type.

What I don't want is a small, finesse, skilled center who flashes skills but won't be effective in big games. And we DON'T want to break the bank on a 2C because they will make so much money we'll have to dismantle the core in 2-3 years. So, for me, guys like Keller are out.

I'd love for Chytil to become that guy and I'd love to leave him space to get there, but we are years away from that.

I hear a lot of my fellow fans treat the issue of grit like you can just add gritty players to your bottom 6 and D and you'll be fine. That is PART of how become a grittier team, but the bottom of your lineup is supplemental to that, it is not central to building a gritty team.

In the NHL, your skilled lines need to have the grit. They need to play inside. Esp in playoffs. And even better if they give it back a little. That's in part why I'm excited about Laf as his reputation for bringing that sort of game is more of what we need in the top 6. I would argue every line needs players who can go into the dirty areas. And the more elite players you have that can play heavy games and get inside the easier it will be to construct a winning team.

But in order to do that -- we MUST be careful how much we pay for players who only have one of these two attributes. The more money you put into 1 dimensional guys the harder it is to ice a contender.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

What I do think is plausible is something surrounding the Carolina pick. It puts the Coyotes back in the first round where they definitely need to be. I’ve long though Dvorak wasn’t possible but that may change. Nick Schmaltz could also be on the Rangers radar. If the Rangers want a short term plug on defense Nick Hjalmarsson would be a terrific add. There’s certainly something to talk about here.

Dvorak is someone I am highly interested in.

 

[GAGLine]

My thoughts on 2nd line center. The ideal is a Ryan O'Reilly type.

What I don't want is a small, finesse, skilled center who flashes skills but won't be effective in big games. And we DON'T want to break the bank on a 2C because they will make so much money we'll have to dismantle the core in 2-3 years. So, for me, guys like Keller are out.

I'd love for Chytil to become that guy and I'd love to leave him space to get there, but we are years away from that.

I hear a lot of my fellow fans treat the issue of grit like you can just add gritty players to your bottom 6 and D and you'll be fine. That is PART of how become a grittier team, but the bottom of your lineup is supplemental to that, it is not central to building a gritty team.

In the NHL, your skilled lines need to have the grit. They need to play inside. Esp in playoffs. And even better if they give it back a little. That's in part why I'm excited about Laf as his reputation for bringing that sort of game is more of what we need in the top 6. I would argue every line needs players who can go into the dirty areas. And the more elite players you have that can play heavy games and get inside the easier it will be to construct a winning team.

But in order to do that -- we MUST be careful how much we pay for players who only have one of these two attributes. The more money you put into 1 dimensional guys the harder it is to ice a contender.

This. All of this. We have plenty of skill, and will have more once we draft Laf. We need more defense and sand paper, which is why I'm hoping for Lundell or Holloway with the Carolina pick.

 

[bbny]

He’s certainly paid like he is!

You think $6.5M AAV is what a player would get paid if he was the best drafted forward in franchise history? That's a hot take.

 

[Barnaby]

Here's what I think can happen, and truth be told, financially the following trade makes a ton of sense for the health of the league and one of their organizations. @bobbop Would love would thoughts. Plausible? Fair?

Why would ARI do this? Recent Events:

• Re-Coup some futures that they just traded away
• Re-Coup some of the futures that they just lost in the form of a 2020 2nd, and a 2021 1st has punishment
• Most Importantly, move ~$60M of hard cash obligations in their situation
• New ownership got hit hard by Covid

From ARI:

• Clayton Keller ($57.2M)- Guy that the Rangers wanted to trade McDonagh for a the 2016 draft, and has history with Quinn.
• Jordan Osterle ($1.6M)- Defensive Depth
• Aaron Ness ($325k)- Minor League LHD
• Robbie Russo ($425k)- Minor League RHD

From NYR:

• Pavel Buchnevich ($3.5m)- Outscored Clayton Keller in the NHL last year in fewer games.
• Brenden Lemeuix (RFA- ~$1.25M)
• Mathew Robertson (ELC) / Karl Henrikson (ELC)
• Lias Anderson (ELC) / 2021 3rd Round Pick
• 2020 1st Round Pick (22)

Might be a tad on the high side in terms of quantity, but if you think about it, this is a trade the Rangers can afford. Both in terms of asset management, the Rangers can certainly afford to pay a premium. The cap won't be an issue going forward. In Keller, you have a kid with Patrick Kane like skills who needs the type of work that Quinn would be great at helping with imo.

Oh and uh... he may be that 2nd line center that everyone has been craving. He's played the middle before.

I don’t think we should be locking down another winger locked up to a long term big money deal - especially if they aren’t elite.

You could theoretically sign Taylor Hall to a very similar deal. Don’t get me wrong - I think that’s a terrible idea too - but at least you wouldn’t be spending assets on that repetitive piece.

A true center and/or LD would make a lot more sense.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

He’s certainly paid like he is!

Uhhh, we were paying Drury and Gomez more, and that was over a decade ago.

Hell, Drury and Gomez each accounted for about 15% of the teams overall cap. Kreider is less than 8%. And he signed that contract before all hell broke loose with Covid.

I wanted nothing to do with extending Kreider, but let’s not get all batshit crazy with the idea that he’s being paid an exuberant amount of money.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Because he has way more experience?

 

[Barnaby]

You think $6.5M AAV is what a player would get paid if he was the best drafted forward in franchise history? That's a hot take.

In fairness, he’s probably their best drafted forward along with Stepan since the 90’s.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Uhhh, we were paying Drury and Gomez more, and that was over a decade ago.

Hell, Drury and Gomez each accounted for about 15% of the teams overall cap. Kreider is less than 8%. And he signed that contract before all hell broke loose with Covid.

I wanted nothing to do with extending Kreider, but let’s not get all batshit crazy with the idea that he’s being paid an exuberant amount of money.

I'm definitely a guy who hates that Kreider contract, the money is fine, the big problem is the term and the clause(s)

 

[bbny]

In fairness, he’s probably their best drafted forward along with Stepan since the 90’s.

I'll give you that, but only for another couple months!

 

[Barnaby]

I'm definitely a guy who hates that Kreider contract, the money is fine, the big problem is the term and the clause(s)

Agreed 100%.

I didn’t like the Staal/Girardi contracts when they were signed - don’t think this one will be THAT bad but I can see the last 2-3 years being rough when Kreider is scoring 35 points on the 3rd line while we have to make tough decisions on the young players we’ve accumulated.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I'm definitely a guy who hates that Kreider contract, the money is fine, the big problem is the term and the clause(s)

Agreed - but in addition to the term+clause, I think he we could have traded him for a Hayes+ kind of return with the going prices during the deadline. Imagine having another high end prospect or another 1st in this upcoming draft?

But, hindsight. Our LW depth would have looked like shit after Panarin + No CK + No Lafreniere.

He has a full NMC the next four seasons - then a partial one for the remaining 3. It wasn’t a terrible contract pre-covid with a rising cap. The cap hit would have likely been around 5-6 % of the teams in 4 more years if all this crap didn’t happen. That’s like, 3rd liner money. Easy to move contract for a 32-33 year old that hasn’t taken a significant step back.

Oh well. Still, the idea of CK being paid a kings ransom is kind of laughable. Shame on you @Barnaby

 

[Greg02]

If Kreider was consistent, he’d be in the conversation for the best forward the Rangers ever drafted.

Looking through it, that's a pretty sad list. Have we really never drafted a forward who reached the hall?

Who even gets the honor of best forward the Rangers have drafted? Vickers? Kovalev? Weight?

 

[Barnaby]

Agreed - but in addition to the term+clause, I think he we could have traded him for a Hayes+ kind of return with the going prices during the deadline. Imagine having another high end prospect or another 1st in this upcoming draft?

But, hindsight. Our LW depth would have looked like shit after Panarin + No CK + No Lafreniere.

He has a full NMC the next four seasons - then a partial one for the remaining 3. It wasn’t a terrible contract pre-covid with a rising cap. The cap hit would have likely been around 5-6 % of the teams in 4 more years if all this crap didn’t happen. That’s like, 3rd liner money. Easy to move contract for a 32-33 year old that hasn’t taken a significant step back.

Oh well. Still, the idea of CK being paid a kings ransom is kind of laughable. Shame on you @Barnaby

The AAV might not be horrendous, but that’s a lot of term for a guy who might be our 3rd best LW in 2-3 years. If that contract ages poorly then we are going to wonder why we went for it for a guy having a great season on a team at least two years away. The assets acquired would have likely been pretty valuable. Obviously, no one knew we were miraculously winning the lottery and no one foresaw a pandemic causing a flat cap. I get it, just didn’t like it at the time and like it less now. It’s not the worst thing in the world though. I think he’s got quite a bit of good hockey in front of him.

 

[Barnaby]

Looking through it, that's a pretty sad list. Have we really never drafted a forward who reached the hall?

Who even gets the honor of best forward the Rangers have drafted? Vickers? Kovalev? Weight?

Im not sure how the old timers were acquired but looking 1990 on Savard, Kovalev, Weight, and Amonte off the top of my head. Of course, they all played their best hockey somewhere else which is another lousy aspect. Mid 90’s early 2000’s we probably could’ve thrown darts at a draft board and been more successful.

 

[Greg02]

Im not sure how the old timers were acquired but looking 1990 on Savard, Kovalev, Weight, and Amonte off the top of my head. Of course, they all played their best hockey somewhere else which is another lousy aspect. Mid 90’s early 2000’s we probably could’ve thrown darts at a draft board and been more successful.

Yeah but even among them, none of them made the Hall or won a major award. The closest thing we have is Vickers and Kovalev picking up a single 2AST each.

List of New York Rangers draft picks - Wikipedia

 

[Barnaby]

Yeah but even among them, none of them made the Hall or won a major award. The closest thing we have is Vickers and Kovalev picking up a single 2AST each.

List of New York Rangers draft picks - Wikipedia

C’mon... Rick Middleton won a Lady Byng!