Roster Building thread - Part IX - (2024 edition)

[McRanger92]

Cuylle’s been pretty consistent, hustles. Way to reward good play and set an example for others.

Trust me getting Cuylle off that line is a reward. Not to mention he's with 2 better players.

 

[Avery16]

Trust me getting Cuylle off that line is a reward. Not to mention he's with 2 better players.

If Goodrow could outplay Bonino, he wouldn’t have taken gotten replaced by Bonino on the third line after Chytil was injured.

 

[Machinehead]

Let’s keep the takes reasonable here.
Vesey is a very good 4th line player who can occasionally play 3rd line minutes. His numbers reflect that.

Whenever Vesey plays with top six players, they turn into Wayne Gretzky.

The idea that good role players have to be condemned to the bottom six with other role players or the world stops turning doesn't make any sense to me.

One of the main points of having a good role player is that he can play with the stars and make those lines better. Or at the very least, push better players to other lines to add depth.

Vegas' second line when they won the Cup was Howden-Stephenson-Stone. Brett Howden, despite being on that line on a winning team (unlike Vesey) is still not a good player. He's actually still very bad. But somehow, the line worked. It rounded everything out for Vegas and they were basically able to roll four top-six lines.

Instead of doing that and winning the Cup, they should have said "nah Howden arbitrarily isn't good enough to play in the 'top six' so let's put him with all of our other bad players on the bad player line and they can get outscored 3:1."

 

[McRanger92]

If Goodrow could outplay Bonino, he wouldn’t have taken gotten replaced by Bonino on the third line after Chytil was injured.

Those lines both play the same amount 5v5. Line numbering is a farce.

 

[IDvsEGO]

View attachment 795691

Whenever Vesey plays with top six players, they turn into Wayne Gretzky.

The idea that good role players have to be condemned to the bottom six with other role players or the world stops turning doesn't make any sense to me.

One of the main points of having a good role player is that he can play with the stars and make those lines better. Or at the very least, push better players to other lines to add depth.

Vegas' second line when they won the Cup was Howden-Stephenson-Stone. Brett Howden, despite being on that line on a winning team (unlike Vesey) is still not a good player. He's actually still very bad. But somehow, the line worked. It rounded everything out for Vegas and they were basically able to roll four top-six lines.

Instead of doing that and winning the Cup, they should have said "nah Howden arbitrarily isn't good enough to play in the 'top six' so let's put him with all of our other bad players on the bad player line and they can get outscored 3:1."

Im sorry, you’re telling me that top 6 players have top 6 stats and metrics and it’s because of vesey and not the fact that they’re top 6 players.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Poor Othmann getting stuck with Bonino. Should just move Wheeler to the middle but that's probably not happening.

 

[NYR Viper]

View attachment 795691

Whenever Vesey plays with top six players, they turn into Wayne Gretzky.

The idea that good role players have to be condemned to the bottom six with other role players or the world stops turning doesn't make any sense to me.

One of the main points of having a good role player is that he can play with the stars and make those lines better. Or at the very least, push better players to other lines to add depth.

Vegas' second line when they won the Cup was Howden-Stephenson-Stone. Brett Howden, despite being on that line on a winning team (unlike Vesey) is still not a good player. He's actually still very bad. But somehow, the line worked. It rounded everything out for Vegas and they were basically able to roll four top-six lines.

Instead of doing that and winning the Cup, they should have said "nah Howden arbitrarily isn't good enough to play in the 'top six' so let's put him with all of our other bad players on the bad player line and they can get outscored 3:1."

Having someone like Vesey in the top-9 is the way it's supposed to be, specifically in a salary cap world. Everyone can't be making $4m+. Finding complimentary pieces is almost more important.

Vesey would be a fantastic addition up the lineup.

This is also what Wheeler was supposed to be

 

[DanielBrassard]

Im sorry, you’re telling me that top 6 players have top 6 stats and metrics and it’s because of vesey and not the fact that they’re top 6 players.

When they are not as good without Vesey that would lead you to assume that he is an ideal compliment to them. Of course they are still top line players without him but he makes them better.

 

[IDvsEGO]

When they are not as good without Vesey that would lead you to assume that he is an ideal compliment to them. Of course they are still top line players without him but he makes them better.

And he doesn’t also make a middle 6 bottom 6 line better?
Our top 6 have to win their matchups, but the point of playing vesey down on the 3rd or 4th lines is to win those matchups.

 

[MrAlmost]

If we all think it hard enough...

Kreider-Z-Vesey
Panarin-Trocheck-Laf
Cuylle-(Literally anyone not listed below)-Othmann
Goodrow-Bonino-Wheeler
Brod

For now though I would say Wheeler 3c. He is slow to the boards and can't break out of the zone so maybe as a center he may be able to just get the puck to faster, younger wings.

 

[bernmeister]

Lindgren and Kakko for an extended Hanifin is what the Rangers equivalent of an Anunoby trade would be. Trade a disappointing young player (Barrett/Kakko) and a guy they cant/wont sign (Quickley/Lindgren) for a long term piece at a position of need (OG/Hanifin). It would make all our pieces fit better, just like the Knicks.

I cant imagine the reaction here among the pearl clutchers if we traded 2 24 year olds for an unsigned player. Meltdown central.

stop overpaying
NO

 

[Machinehead]

And he doesn’t also make a middle 6 bottom 6 line better?

He does, but his line is still getting heavily outscored because he's still playing with two wingnuts who couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat.

We're wasting his ability as a complimentary player by playing him with guys who can't do anything with the puck.

If you truly believe Vesey is limited, which seemed to be the point of your original comment, that's even more reason to have him be a compliment to good players as opposed to asking him to carry a whole line.

 

[Machinehead]

And no, none of those guys are anywhere in the solar system of the numbers I posted when they're not with Vesey, except maybe Kreider on a good day.

60+ xGF% isn't a top six player, it's a Hart-caliber player.

 

[mrmovies779]

Vesey gets into the top 6 and becomes a better version of Fast... the numbers don't lie

 

[McRanger92]

He does, but his line is still getting heavily outscored because he's still playing with two wingnuts who couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat.

We're wasting his ability as a complimentary player by playing him with guys who can't do anything with the puck.

If you truly believe Vesey is limited, which seemed to be the point of your original comment, that's even more reason to have him be a compliment to good players as opposed to asking him to carry a whole line.

Cuylle on that Vesey line is nice. They needed a guy who can finish.

 

[bernmeister]

The move is Lindgren + for Hanifan @ 50% and then resign Hanifan

This is the way

too expensive and unrealistic also Hani, while an improvement, may not be best answer

 

[Machinehead]

Vesey gets into the top 6 and becomes a better version of Fast... the numbers don't lie

A better version of Fast is close to a first liner.

 

[Machinehead]

Cuylle on that Vesey line is nice. They needed a guy who can finish.

I do like Cuylle on his LW. My only concern is them playing offense 4v5 because Goodrow is so slow he's still playing in the Lightning game.

 

[Machinehead]

People said the same thing about Fast. "Oh we can't play him in the top six, he's not a Top Six Guy™."

We tried it one season. I think his center had a career high in points and his LW was a Hart finalist or something.

 

[mrmovies779]

A better version of Fast is close to a first liner.

That's my point..the guy is the perfect compliment to Mika and Kreider..its a shame we continue to waste him on the 4th line.

 

[NYR Viper]

People said the same thing about Fast. "Oh we can't play him in the top six, he's not a Top Six Guy™."

We tried it one season. I think his center had a career high in points and his LW was a Hart finalist or something.

I've never understood the desire for people to not want a lower paid, complimentary player who can help propel his linemates to better overall play. Like you mentioned, it allows for a better player to get pushed down the lineup and a deeper overall lineup

 

[Machinehead]

That's my point..the guy is the perfect compliment to Mika and Kreider..its a shame we continue to waste him on the 4th line.

Oh my bad. Misread your comment as "Vesey becomes this mediocre thing when we put him up there."

That's from people shitting on Fast so much on this board and pearl clutching whenever he played higher than the "third line" whatever that means.

I take "Jesper Fast" to be a dig at this point.

 

[Machinehead]

I've never understood the desire for people to not want a lower paid, complimentary player who can help propel his linemates to better overall play. Like you mentioned, it allows for a better player to get pushed down the lineup and a deeper overall lineup

2014 is another example.

Pouliot and Hagelin played roles that made their lines great lines. Both were better than the sum of their parts.

People also whined and complained that Hagelin played on a line that was somehow too high on paper (and paper is all it really is -- hell, Vince just ignores ice time and posts the lines in whatever order he feels like).

Somebody once accused Haglein of being a 4th liner, to which somebody else responded "Hagelin is closer to a 1st liner than a 4th liner" and @aufheben came in with one of my all-time favorite HF posts: "Hagelin is closer to being a dolphin than a 4th liner."

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I understand the apprehension with playing Vesey higher in the lineup.

I kind of like Vesey where he is in an ideal world where you can have a good 4th line but with the way things are right now he should be playing higher.

The last 2 cup finalists literally had Brett Howden and Nick Cousins playing in their top 6. Vesey is better than both of those guys.

 

[NYR Viper]

I understand the apprehension with playing Vesey higher in the lineup.

I kind of like Vesey where he is in an ideal world where you can have a good 4th line but with the way things are right now he should be playing higher.

The last 2 cup finalists literally had Brett Howden and Nick Cousins playing in their top 6. Vesey is better than both of those guys.

The answer is to find another Vesey. I honestly think that the team actually has a couple of guys internally who may play a similar style in Sykora and Berard.