Roster Building thread - Part IX - (2024 edition)

[GoAwayPanarin]

Tampa's situation with Kucherov was a bit different however....Same for Vegas with Stone. Neither of those players were forced to retire, so both teams were able to use the additional space to bolster their rosters. Both were rewarded when the players returned just in time to start game 1 of their respective playoffs.

If Chytil is forced to hang em up & we didn't trade his deal, sure we could use his cap space, but we wouldn't really benefit like those two teams did. Plus we'd be stuck in a situation for 3 more years where we're not accruing deadline space. It's not an ideal situation which is why we'd likely pay Arizona a few draft picks to take his contract. It's not costing them real money, so I think two 3rds would be the price.

I'm pretty sure Tampa carried/is carrying Seabrook so they can have the additional space.

They've been masterful in their maneuvering of LTIR.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Yes...but his cap hit f***s us for 3 more seasons. Keeping him on LTIR for the entire time kills our ability to accrue deadline space. We'd have to pay Arizona to take on his deal.

I meant like does Chytil himself collect the full contract?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Think we may be a little early proclaiming Chytil retired. Imo he may be done for the year but he's young, lots of players have figured out how to play after these types of things.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I meant like does Chytil himself collect the full contract?

Yes. Which is why the cap rules still apply.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I'm pretty sure Tampa carried/is carrying Seabrook so they can have the additional space.

They've been masterful in their maneuvering of LTIR.

The additional space only works for players injured during the season. A case like Seabrook doesn't help them add space that wasn't there to begin with. Since Seabrook is never playing again, I fail to see the advantage of carrying his contract for a team that is flirting with the cap ceiling. It would be the same as the Chytil situation if he ever got to that point.

Maybe @GAGLine can clarify?

 

[GAGLine]

The additional space only works for players injured during the season. A case like Seabrook doesn't help them add space that wasn't there to begin with. Since Seabrook is never playing again, I fail to see the advantage of carrying his contract for a team that is flirting with the cap ceiling. It would be the same as the Chytil situation if he ever got to that point.

Maybe @GAGLine can clarify?

What teams do in that situation is trade a healthy player for an injured player. Seabrook has a 6.875 mil cap hit. Tampa sent Tyler Johnson the other way in that trade. Johnson has a 5 mil cap hit, so Tampa saved 5 mil.

To get a bit more technical, Tampa increased their cap commitment by 1.875 mil, but they then placed Seabrook on LTIR, increasing the amount they are allowed to spend by up to 6.875 mil. The max LTIR space generated in this case would be 5 mil. It could be less depending on how far from the cap ceiling Tampa was at the time Seabrook was placed on LTIR.

 

[Boris Zubov]

What teams do in that situation is trade a healthy player for an injured player. Seabrook has a 6.875 mil cap hit. Tampa sent Tyler Johnson the other way in that trade. Johnson has a 5 mil cap hit, so Tampa saved 5 mil.

To get a bit more technical, Tampa increased their cap commitment by 1.875 mil, but they then placed Seabrook on LTIR, increasing the amount they are allowed to spend by up to 6.875 mil. The max LTIR space generated in this case would be 5 mil. It could be less depending on how far from the cap ceiling Tampa was at the time Seabrook was placed on LTIR.

Ok this makes more sense, thanks. However, Tampa still does not accrue any deadline space as long as Seabrook is on their books, correct?

 

[Kendo]

I am not sure what this means.

Panarin/Trocheck - 360 minutes - 58.7 CF%. 57.1 xG%
Panarin/Chytil - 111 minutes - 58.9 CF%. 55.8 xG5

How are the underlying numbers not nearly as good? They're basically identical.

With Chytil, that line scores a half a goal more per 60 and gives up half a goal less per 60. It's still noticeable, but honestly I thought there would have been a bigger gap.

I'd rather build a 3rd line matchup line around Tro & Kakko.

 

[Daves a mess]

do you know something we dont? He’s a great locker room guy

What I do know is that when Torts was hired, he did an interview with NHL Radio. Boomer Gordon asked him directly what his concerns were in taking over the Flyers. Torts directly stated that "He did not like the lockeroom". Thats verbatim.

Immediate speculation afterwards was centered around Kevin Hayes as a leader of a Torts coached team going forward.

 

[SA16]

With Chytil, that line scores a half a goal more per 60 and gives up half a goal less per 60. It's still noticeable, but honestly I thought there would have been a bigger gap.

I'd rather build a 3rd line matchup line around Tro & Kakko.

Those stats have extremely little to no predictive value in 110 minutes of play.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Forget my previous suggestions of Sillinger and Zary. Now that Othmann is up, it’s time to call up Ron Francis and get SHANE WRIGHT, so we can reunite the Don Mills Flyers phenoms. Sign Alex Christopoulous too once his OHL season is done and get the whole gang back together.

If Leon Rose can make the huge trade for OG Anunoby, there’s no excuse for Drury to not add a long-term piece that fits this roster perfectly. No further questions, your honor.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I would not mind Jason Zucker at the deadline

 

[Avery16]

What I do know is that when Torts was hired, he did an interview with NHL Radio. Boomer Gordon asked him directly what his concerns were in taking over the Flyers. Torts directly stated that "He did not like the lockeroom". Thats verbatim.

Immediate speculation afterwards was centered around Kevin Hayes as a leader of a Torts coached team going forward.

You know who I don't want near our locker room? Torts. Probably Hayes butted heads with him, and I am completely fine with that.

 

[Kendo]

Those stats have extremely little to no predictive value in 110 minutes of play.

Wait, the xG% and/or CF% or whatever are valid, but the actual results over the same period of time aren't? Per 60 is the same thing as assigning a %, in so much as putting different amounts of time in the same context.

You literally said their underlying stats using that 110 minute sample size were "basically identical" as the other 360 minute sample size. But now 110 minutes doesn't even count?

Or is it just "actual production vs expected production" that you have an issue with? With Chytil the line as a whole did more "per minute" while giving up less, and with Trocheck had a "nearly identical expected goals %" while actually scoring a little less and giving up a little more.

If you just want to press me that "not nearly as good" should have been phrased "not quite as good," then okay. I concede that it is "nearly." I maintain that it is "not as good."

It's all pedantic BS anyway, as Troch has been instrumental in keeping it rolling while we have two key injuries. I don't want it to sound like I'm specifically negging him if I keep making the argument for how good the 10 72 13 line was.

 

[Kendo]

What a brutal number. Miller is killing me too.

Hard disagree. I'm into the freaky stuff.

 

[huerter]

Forget my previous suggestions of Sillinger and Zary. Now that Othmann is up, it’s time to call up Ron Francis and get SHANE WRIGHT, so we can reunite the Don Mills Flyers phenoms. Sign Alex Christopoulous too once his OHL season is done and get the whole gang back together.

If Leon Rose can make the huge trade for OG Anunoby, there’s no excuse for Drury to not add a long-term piece that fits this roster perfectly. No further questions, your honor.

Then get Staal and Ryan Parent on D like I've been dreaming of.

 

[mrmovies779]

Othmann, Cuylle, Brod...the line that never passes lol...all shooters,no set up guys lol

 

[SA16]

Wait, the xG% and/or CF% or whatever are valid, but the actual results over the same period of time aren't? Per 60 is the same thing as assigning a %, in so much as putting different amounts of time in the same context.

You literally said their underlying stats using that 110 minute sample size were "basically identical" as the other 360 minute sample size. But now 110 minutes doesn't even count?

Or is it just "actual production vs expected production" that you have an issue with? With Chytil the line as a whole did more "per minute" while giving up less, and with Trocheck had a "nearly identical expected goals %" while actually scoring a little less and giving up a little more.

If you just want to press me that "not nearly as good" should have been phrased "not quite as good," then okay. I concede that it is "nearly." I maintain that it is "not as good."

It's all pedantic BS anyway, as Troch has been instrumental in keeping it rolling while we have two key injuries. I don't want it to sound like I'm specifically negging him if I keep making the argument for how good the 10 72 13 line was.

Well yea that is the entire point of xG and CF and such. They have more data points so they become significant with less time.

 

[GAGLine]

Ok this makes more sense, thanks. However, Tampa still does not accrue any deadline space as long as Seabrook is on their books, correct?

It's not because Seabrook is on LTIR, but because they are actively using LTIR cap space.

If the cap is 100 mil, a team is spending 90 mil, and they place a player with a 5 mil cap hit on LTIR, they are still accruing just as much cap space as before. It's only when they begin spending 100+ mil that they stop accruing.

 

[kovazub94]

I am not sure what this means.

Panarin/Trocheck - 360 minutes - 58.7 CF%. 57.1 xG%
Panarin/Chytil - 111 minutes - 58.9 CF%. 55.8 xG5

How are the underlying numbers not nearly as good? They're basically identical.

And more than 3x sample size.

 

[McRanger92]

Forget my previous suggestions of Sillinger and Zary. Now that Othmann is up, it’s time to call up Ron Francis and get SHANE WRIGHT, so we can reunite the Don Mills Flyers phenoms. Sign Alex Christopoulous too once his OHL season is done and get the whole gang back together.

If Leon Rose can make the huge trade for OG Anunoby, there’s no excuse for Drury to not add a long-term piece that fits this roster perfectly. No further questions, your honor.

Lindgren and Kakko for an extended Hanifin is what the Rangers equivalent of an Anunoby trade would be. Trade a disappointing young player (Barrett/Kakko) and a guy they cant/wont sign (Quickley/Lindgren) for a long term piece at a position of need (OG/Hanifin). It would make all our pieces fit better, just like the Knicks.

I cant imagine the reaction here among the pearl clutchers if we traded 2 24 year olds for an unsigned player. Meltdown central.

 

[Machinehead]

Lindgren and Kakko for an extended Hanifin is what the Rangers equivalent of an Anunoby trade would be. Trade a disappointing young player (Barrett/Kakko) and a guy they cant/wont sign (Quickley/Lindgren) for a long term piece at a position of need (OG/Hanifin). It would make all our pieces fit better, just like the Knicks.

I cant imagine the reaction here among the pearl clutchers if we traded 2 24 year olds for an unsigned player. Meltdown central.

The Knicks also got a chance to give Donte DiVincenzo more minutes and oh hey, here comes Jimmy Vesey!

 

[Kendo]

Well yea that is the entire point of xG and CF and such. They have more data points so they become significant with less time.

It's so weird. I would make the argument that both expected goal % and actual goal % matter. You're asserting that expected goals matter and actual goals don't. Just seems contrarian.

 

[NYR Viper]

Lindgren and Kakko for an extended Hanifin is what the Rangers equivalent of an Anunoby trade would be. Trade a disappointing young player (Barrett/Kakko) and a guy they cant/wont sign (Quickley/Lindgren) for a long term piece at a position of need (OG/Hanifin). It would make all our pieces fit better, just like the Knicks.

I cant imagine the reaction here among the pearl clutchers if we traded 2 24 year olds for an unsigned player. Meltdown central.

The move is Lindgren + for Hanifan @ 50% and then resign Hanifan

This is the way

 

[McRanger92]

Kakko in a non-contact jersey skating with the team. Looks like we will be getting him back sooner than expected, which is good.