Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Off-season Part I

[IDvsEGO]

I still don’t love the idea of PLD. He really doesn’t produce well on his own and he’s not very good defensively either. He can play physically but he’s not some monster like Wilson or Trouba. I’d much rather sign Copp because 1. He won’t cost us anymore assets 2. He’ll be significantly cheaper. Guarantee Dubois and Copp would produce almost the same with Panarin. Dubois and Panarin didn’t even have chemistry in Columbus. They just happened to play together because Panarin was their best winger and Dubois was their best center

Does anyone know how legit we are about Dubois? It seems like we’re the heavy favorites for every single player that becomes available at this point it feels like other teams are using us to prop up value and get other teams more interested.

We heard absolutely nothing on Copp, Vatrano, Braun, and Motte. Not a peep. But for every high center that’s available for whatever reason everyone has all the details of players offered and players deemed untouchable and so on. Just seems weird

If we get Dubois, I'd want the lines to look like this
10-93-20
13-80-24
?--maybe 72-74
91-21-rydal/29

You move panarin with mika and ck, and you give the kids a top end center.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I keep forgetting he isn't AHL-eligible next year.

He should get a 9-game cup of coffee and see if he sticks (as long as his camp is as good as it should be).

Where is he going to play with the big club, we got Laf Chytil and Kakko on line 3 this year with Kravtsov coming too?

 

[IDvsEGO]

The bigger concern, in my opinion, with acquiring a new 3C is ensuring our scouting department nails it and picks the right one. The assets needed to acquire that player should be fairly easy to drum up. It's taking a shot at a guy and them busting that gives me pause. We've had a fairly inconsistent past with investing in poor depth players. And depending on timing/term, we may only have 1 chance at getting it right.

Im actually not quite conceerned about our scouting department. Look at the midseason acquisitions. They absolutely nailed each and every one.
They identified we needed a solid playoff defenseman /upgrade to nemeth.
They knew we needed 4th line speed.
They knew we needed a center/wing for panarins line or a 3rd line pair.
They knew we needed a wing for mika.

They identified our weaknesses and found perfectly matching players.

That was a fantastic job.

 

[NickyFotiu]

There still can be quite a bit of ceiling left between the kid line of Laf chytil and kakko.
That could certainly factor into our top 6 being much much better

Laf has a high ceiling. Im not as high on the other two having the kind of ceiling we need in our top 6. We not only need top 6 we may need top line. Zibs is fine but CK is more a pp specialist at times and they dont have a rw. Teams have short windows. We may miss ours.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I agree with LB.

And I do not say that often.

I say stay the course. Trade Nemeth and Georgiev. Sign Copp, Motte, and another quality 4th liner. Try to keep Braun. Even if it means keeping Jones down for the first month or so until cap space accrues.

Then at the deadline, then consider the big splash to go all in for another run. Say Patty Kane.

But stay the course for now

I disagree with the hack LB and almost always do tbh. A legit 2nd line center is the most pressing need on this team. A guy who can play quick and in traffic. The 2nd line was awful in the playoffs and the reason we didn't get to the finals IMO. A lot of that was Panarin but Strome was bad as well. Larry makes it seem like we aren't going to try to shed salary which isn't true. We aren't signing Strome or Copp, we are trading Chytil's salary, also hopefully getting rid of Georgiev and Nemeth's as well. Thats a lot of salary moving out the door. How would the Rangers ice a hollow roster also Larry? They just signed Kravs and Blais for a little over 2 mil combined and they would still basically have everybody else coming back. Plus they do have some nice young prospect talent to fill voids including Othmann, Jones, and Cuylle and it's not that hard to get decent 4th liners on the cheap. And how many offer sheets have been signed over the last nearly 2 decades Larry? I really hate this guy and I'm sure he posts on this board.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Chytil has played 5 seasons. That is 1 less than PLD. Neither Chytil nor KK have come close to even PLD's rookie season. If Chytil and or KK put up another 5-10 goal 25-35 point season their value will be very low. If PLD gets 6.5 it is because that is what the market values him at. Is our goal to have the most average or below players at 4 mill or to win the cup?

Chytil's first real year with the club is 18/19 and he was 23 points on 13:37 TOI. Chytil averaged :25 per game on the power play.
Dubois's first year with CBJ is 17/8 and he was 48 points on 16:38 TOI. Dubois averaged 1:56 on the powerplay.
Chytil's numbers are entirely 5v5 while Dubois has a significant amount of Powerplay points.
I like dubois, but theres a reason a few of us think he legit has earned a 2c shot.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Where is he going to play with the big club, we got Laf Chytil and Kakko on line 3 this year with Kravtsov coming too?

Pretty sure at least one guy, there, will be top 6. We also don't know if we will make any trades this offseason as well.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I have no issues improving or trading away assets, but I just don't love trading the best pieces we have for a player we can't really afford, who will make big buck, and can leave in two years unless we pay him handsomely.

Chytil and KK may be valued more by you than the rest of the league. Years ago Larry Brooks wrote a column saying we can't give up our youth in Jamie Ludmark in a trade for Jagr. That was as stupid as it gets but sometimes youth is lije an unscratched lottery ticket. They are all looked at as potential winners.

Chytil's first real year with the club is 18/19 and he was 23 points on 13:37 TOI. Chytil averaged :25 per game on the power play.
Dubois's first year with CBJ is 17/8 and he was 48 points on 16:38 TOI. Dubois averaged 1:56 on the powerplay.
Chytil's numbers are entirely 5v5 while Dubois has a significant amount of Powerplay points.
I like dubois, but theres a reason a few of us think he legit has earned a 2c shot.

Sometimes guys play more because they deserve more minutes.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Chytil and KK may be valued more by you than the rest of the league. Years ago Larry Brooks wrote a column saying we can't give up our youth in Jamie Ludmark in a trade for Jagr. That was as stupid as it gets but sometimes youth is lije an unscratched lottery ticket. They are all looked at as potential winners.


Sometimes guys play more because they deserve more minutes.

And some guys dont get ice time because Quinn is a moron.
Also CBJ didnt have anyone ahead of Dubois. Thats really the point. Dubois got fed ice time because he was their best center.

 

[JimmyG89]

People love mediocre here. Fast was talked about in godly terms. At some point you have to take a chance. This team is not winning anything with our top 9. They are overmatched.

We can say they were overmatched during the playoffs, but they played 3 grizzled teams when it comes to the playoffs. The Pens had a significant advantage in playoff experience. Carolina has been building together since the 18-19 season, and Tampa goes without saying their accomplishments.

About half the roster was baptized this postseason. Shesterkin, Fox, Lindgren, Miller, Lafreniere, Kakko, Chytil, Schneider. All playoff debuts. Guys like Kreider and Zibanejad had been out for 5 years.

You learn the levels you need to get to in order to win. If they're going into the playoffs in April getting dominated this time around I'll be more worried. We need to see if the kid line can grow from these games and translate it over the 82 game schedule. If not now, when? A small step back in the summer could result in a giant leap forward in June.

 

[Taluss]

Chytil and KK may be valued more by you than the rest of the league. Years ago Larry Brooks wrote a column saying we can't give up our youth in Jamie Ludmark in a trade for Jagr. That was as stupid as it gets but sometimes youth is lije an unscratched lottery ticket. They are all looked at as potential winners.


Sometimes guys play more because they deserve more minutes.

The other thing about youth and prospects is that they are great to have of course. But when we just opened our window of contending we can’t just keep waiting another year or 2 for them to develop more and hope they hit their potential.

Like we are in our window, time can run out quick.

* I’m not trying to say sell the farm. Be smart of course. But it’s time to fix the holes in the team

 

[bleedblue94]

Chytil and KK may be valued more by you than the rest of the league. Years ago Larry Brooks wrote a column saying we can't give up our youth in Jamie Ludmark in a trade for Jagr. That was as stupid as it gets but sometimes youth is lije an unscratched lottery ticket. They are all looked at as potential winners.


Sometimes guys play more because they deserve more minutes.

Why do you keep twisting things.

I've been pretty clear that I don't value pld as much as other do based on the contract and asset cost. That is not the same as overvaluing kakko and chytil. For years I've actually been quite pessimistic of chytil and kakko and in fact still don't see chytil here long term as I don't think he has the IQ to be a 2c w elite players and his game isn't suited to be an effective 3c on a contender. He is a tweener with no defined role. I also think kakko is currently playing himself into a level of irrelevancy considering the draft position and expectations. At this point three years after he was drafted his value is riding primarily based on where he was drafted and not on his play.

 

[NickyFotiu]

And some guys dont get ice time because Quinn is a moron.
Also CBJ didnt have anyone ahead of Dubois. Thats really the point. Dubois got fed ice time because he was their best center.

So all we have to do is play Chytil and Kakko top line minutes and they will be topline players? That is great news!

Why do you keep twisting things.

I've been pretty clear that I don't value pld as much as other do based on the contract and asset cost. That is not the same as overvaluing kakko and chytil. For years I've actually been quite pessimistic of chytil and kakko and in fact still don't see chytil here long term as I don't think he has the IQ to be a 2c w elite players and his game isn't suited to be an effective 3c on a contender. He is a tweener with no defined role. I also think kakko is currently playing himself into a level of irrelevancy considering the draft position and expectations. At this point three years after he was drafted his value is riding primarily based on where he was drafted and not on his play.

Dont mean to twist anything. Some things I say have nothing to do with you. Just have heard a similar story regarding Stamkos/Stepan and Jagr/Ludmark in the past so Im speaking my view point.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The other thing about youth and prospects is that they are great to have of course. But when we just opened our window of contending we can’t just keep waiting another year or 2 for them to develop more and hope they hit their potential.

Like we are in our window, time can run out quick.

* I’m not trying to say sell the farm. Be smart of course. But it’s time to fix the holes in the team

You are right plus as we see on defense we only have so many spots. We are going to keep everyone and add Krav, Oth and others? Quality beats quantity in the NHL. If we have a chance to get any great players we should be willing to make a package deal.

 

[Alluckks]

Kreider Zib Laf
Panarin PLD ____
Othamnn Chytil Blais
Motte Goodrow Reaves/Hunt

 

[mas0764]

Holy shit at that AAV. Cap is completely dead again and salaries continue to balloon.

This league is unsustainable.

They need to go to a soft cap like the NBA, or a hard cap with easier out-options like the NFL.

 

[Anthony5967]

Well well things are starting to get interesting.

At first blush return on Fiala does seem light but teams knew Guerin's hands were tied. Similar to a situation we saw play out last summer...

Yep, and people act surprised by this still. Reinhart got back a decent goalie prospect and a late 1st. Drury chose a solid top-9 player in Blais with some untapped offensive upside AND a second. When teams realize hands are tied, you aren’t getting much back, and this was WITH Fiala having an 85 point season. Buch had 48 in 54.

 

[mas0764]

I'm optimistic about how this team is going to come out and perform next season. NYR sort of limped through the regular season to a cup final in 2014, won the President's trophy the next season.

With all cylinders firing, I don't see why this team won't be substantially improved at 5 on 5 next season. The kids have improved, Miller only gets better, and an insertion of Jones (Or, perhaps, Kravtsov?) could really help

I don't fully buy the idea that the team isn't going to play hard because they're just okay letting Shesty steal games. That flew for part of this season but this roster thinks it's good now.

The 2014-15 teams were possession monsters, the opposite of this team, which was “lucky.”

 

[Kocur26]

He's close. He may need half a season in the AHL, but he looks close to me.

He’s in the PLD deal

 

[Anthony5967]

If you are Gallant do you really give a shit? Gallant has 2 years to win the cup before he's canned for the next guy. That's life as a coach, especially if management trades for PLD which is the same as go all in NOW.

I’m going to get put on a skewer for this but I have a gut feeling that Quenneville will be back in a year or two after the dust clears…coaching in Manhattan to get them over the hump if it hasn’t already happened. He ****** up big time in Chicago with the scandal, very badly, but the guy is a fantastic coach. I can’t see him not coaching ever again. Think of some of the people in sports to get second and third chances.

The 2014-15 teams were possession monsters, the opposite of this team, which was “lucky.”

I don’t recall those teams being sexy advanced stat kings at all.

 

[RGY]

I disagree with the hack LB and almost always do tbh. A legit 2nd line center is the most pressing need on this team. A guy who can play quick and in traffic. The 2nd line was awful in the playoffs and the reason we didn't get to the finals IMO. A lot of that was Panarin but Strome was bad as well. Larry makes it seem like we aren't going to try to shed salary which isn't true. We aren't signing Strome or Copp, we are trading Chytil's salary, also hopefully getting rid of Georgiev and Nemeth's as well. Thats a lot of salary moving out the door. How would the Rangers ice a hollow roster also Larry? They just signed Kravs and Blais for a little over 2 mil combined and they would still basically have everybody else coming back. Plus they do have some nice young prospect talent to fill voids including Othmann, Jones, and Cuylle and it's not that hard to get decent 4th liners on the cheap. And how many offer sheets have been signed over the last nearly 2 decades Larry? I really hate this guy and I'm sure he posts on this board.

I agree with the overall concept and point being made with regard to Dubois, and having to deal Chytil for that guy who really has been all smoke but no fire.

I am not opposed to trading Chytil in a deal for a more further along Center who can be the 2C for the next 4-5 years, but I am uncomfortable with making a move for Dubois who is 2 years from free agency. Assets wasted if we dont win a cup within two years. Dubois has looked pretty uninspired in CBJ and WPG. The proponents of Dubois argue his lackluster play is likely due to location ; what if that is just who he is? What then? I watched quite a few WPG games last year because I had a feeling we would be in on Copp, Dubois always left me wanting more shift by shift. And what if Chytil is on the cusp of breaking out? That would suck considering he is a much cheaper piece over the next 2 years and likely would still be cheaper when both he and Dubois sign new deals in 2024. Dubois just does not have good vibes as a deal that would pay immense dividends. 2 years ago I was all about him. But we were in a much different situation then and Dubois has not proven to be an easy player to have in your organization since then — he forced his way out of one location and now is blatantly saying he will not entertain an extension in the new one.

I have said it before, and I absolutely hate this man, but I would rather look at Malkin over the next 2-3 years with the hope he would take a fair market deal or even slightly less to play next to Panarin, especially if it is still true that he has a desire to play for the NYR or MTL. Costs us no young assets to sign Malkin. Trade Nemeth and Georgiev. Sign Motte. Continue to draft centers.

Kreider-Zib-Kakko
Panarin-Malkin-Kravtsov
Lafreniere-Chytil-Blais
Motte-Goodrow-Ty Johnson

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Kreider Zib Laf
Panarin PLD ____
Othamnn Chytil Blais
Motte Goodrow Reaves/Hunt

We signed Kravs also.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

That was not my point Roo. My point is that i do not want strome on this team even for .50 on the $1. His subtraction to this team will be a net positive for panarin and whoever will be put on his line now.

I never said anything about drafting or not drafting centers.

The problem is it's a cycle. "They can't draft centers so they won't draft centers. They shouldn't draft centers because they haven't been good at it historically. Strome is terrible but there's a cap..etc"

The easiest answer is to be self sufficient and have options to replace guys like Strome without breaking the bank.

 

[Calad]

Guy is a sook...leave him in winnipeg, he's been sooking for about 3 years now.

sook him? sook you!!!

 

[CommaSynapse]

Kreider Zib Laf
Panarin PLD ____
Othamnn Chytil Blais
Motte Goodrow Reaves/Hunt

What's going to Winnipeg? Kakko, Robertson, 1st?