Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIV: 2021: “The Fun has begun” or “Over & done”?

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I guess I look at it as you flip Zib for a Center at a similar point as Chytil, maybe a bit behind in terms of stage of development. Hypothetically, you look at;

Eichel + Krebs/Glass/Newhook/etc > Zibanejad + Chytil.

Is that a net positive long term? Does zib return a young center + say a 1st round pick?

And yeah a $10 million cap hit is a lot today. But in 2-3 years when things are back to normal, a new TV deal, cap increases, it can become more value as being a reduced % of the overall team cap. And you have him locked up.
I don’t j ow if zib will return that but I’m a lot more comfortable depending on Chytil being a solid top 6 center than I am depending on Mika returning one. Mika would have to rebound big time then we’d need a team with a young center with high potential who is going for it now and would make better use of Mika even though he has injury history snd an expiring contract
 
Then you trade Strome instead of losing a 2c for nothing. Gauthier would be lucky to return Joey Keane at this point. I'm not bashing him, it's just a fact about his value. He may break out, but if we have to move Kratsov or Gauthier because of a logjam, they will return very little compared to Strome.
They already tried to trade Strome this past offseason and got ~no bites. None of them currently have much value in and of themselves. I guess Kravstov can return a new 1st rounder or something but that's not really appetizing.
 
I guess I look at it as you flip Zib for a Center at a similar point as Chytil, maybe a bit behind in terms of stage of development. Hypothetically, you look at;

Eichel + Krebs/Glass/Newhook/etc > Zibanejad + Chytil.

Is that a net positive long term? Does zib return a young center + say a 1st round pick?

And yeah a $10 million cap hit is a lot today. But in 2-3 years when things are back to normal, a new TV deal, cap increases, it can become more value as being a reduced % of the overall team cap. And you have him locked up.
So, what's given up for Eichel in this scenario? That's a false equivalency. We could still get a center prospect for Zibs and not give up a shit ton of assets for Eichel. IMO Eichel does not improve this team as much as you think he will. His strengths are already this teams long-term strengths. There's diminishing returns. He's a shiny luxury.

Still haven't answered on what Eichel will do for this team. What weakness would he shore up? besides being a center locked up past next year. He should shore up a weakness, no? Giving up top assets and cap space? Or are we just doing it to be marginally better in some areas? and worse in others? Which is arguable btw because offensively, Mika has been better/comparable to Eichel the previous 2 season but blows him out of the water in other areas.

The correct graph would be Chytil, Buch, Lundkvist, 1st + anyone we cant re-sign because of Eichel's cap > Eichel
 
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Waiting for Barkov in 2022 seems like a better move in every way. If for some reason Barkov slips off the table and re-signs, you explore your move for Eichel or another frustrated talented C then.

Trading a house for Eichel will make us a contender.

Trading nothing and bringing in Barkov in 2022 makes us something special.
 
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Waiting for Barkov in 2022 seems like a better move in every way. If for some reason Barkov slips off the table and re-signs, you explore your move for Eichel or another frustrated talented C then.

Trading a house for Eichel will make us a contender.

Trading nothing and bringing in Barkov in 2022 makes us something special.
No way Florida lets Barkov walk......it's that simple. Just not going to happen .
 
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No way Florida lets Barkov walk......it's that simple. Just not going to happen .
Florida is having a good year in a fantasyland season where they are beating up teams like the predators on a nightly basis. None of Florida’s issues have been resolved and it’s still the home of an empty building night in and night out.
 
Before Panarin's leave of absense, the Panarin-Strome-Kakko line was our best one

Seriously, you start with either

Panarin - Zibanejad - Buchnevich

or

Panarin - Strome - Kakko

and then pieces on other lines would just fall into places. Personally I would prefer the former and Kreider - Strome - Kakko to follow. Lafreniere - Chytil - GOAT should win a good share of its 3rd line battles.
 
Waiting for Barkov in 2022 seems like a better move in every way. If for some reason Barkov slips off the table and re-signs, you explore your move for Eichel or another frustrated talented C then.

Trading a house for Eichel will make us a contender.

Trading nothing and bringing in Barkov in 2022 makes us something special.
We dont need Centers to be line-drivers. We have that all down the left side already. Panarin, Laf and Kreider. We have Kakko for sure. Kravtsov and Buch. Chytil is putting it together at 21, still developing into a good/dependable 2way.

IMO we need middle6 2way centers long term to compliment our wingers. Zibs was great 2 way top line talent; Even if he can return to 60-70% of what he did last year, he's a perfect fit depending on cost/risk. A better, defensive Strome. Kevin Hayes, before the $7M per contract. Dvorak. Cirielli. Maybe a guy like Patrick? Prospects like Krebs. Lindholm. Drafting a guy like Beniers.
 
I'm just sayin'....now would be the perfect time to maximize on Strome's value and an excellent opportunity to get out of that Kreider contract and get an asset or two back as well.



I'M JUST SAYIN'
Stop it. It aint happening no matter how much you want it and keep talking about it, CK is not going anywhere.
 
So, what's given up for Eichel in this scenario? That's a false equivalency. We could still get a center prospect for Zibs and not give up a shit ton of assets for Eichel. IMO Eichel does not improve this team as much as you think he will. His strengths are already this teams long-term strengths. There's diminishing returns. He's a shiny luxury.

Still haven't answered on what Eichel will do for this team. What weakness would he shore up? besides being a center locked up past next year. He should shore up a weakness, no? Giving up top assets and cap space? Or are we just doing it to be marginally better in some areas? and worse in others? Which is arguable btw because offensively, Mika has been better/comparable to Eichel the previous 2 season but blows him out of the water in other areas.

The correct graph would be Chytil, Buch, Lundkvist, 1st + anyone we cant re-sign because of Eichel's cap > Eichel
You keep speaking as if Eichel has all these weaknesses. I have responded in kind with my rebuttals to you in that you talk as if Eichel has peaked at 24 years old. You ignore that Buffalo could be and is likely a large part of the issues in general. I am not going to critique Eichel’s 2-way game or defensive capabilities when I admittedly have not watched him on a regular basis. But I would venture to guess many of you havent either.

What I do know is he drives offense. He has a much more consistent body of work in his career than Zibanejad does. And the only reason Zib is brought into this is because his deal is up after next season and we have to plan for that. Eichel gives us insurance as a proven commodity who is ONLY 24 years old. You cannot assume Barkov will be there or that another center will become available. And what if its a center who is 27-28 and we are paying just as much of a premium for that center? We also cannot just assume Chytil will be able to take on the responsibilities and pressure of being the 1C. Do we then make a bad deal and sign Zib longterm with the risk of more injuries? Eichel is signed longterm and is 0.96 PPG player. Thats worth 75-85 points per season in that hell hole.

I have repeatedly stated that the trade cost gives me pause. I have said that Chytil being included especially gives me pause. We have accumulated so many assets that if we cannot manage a deal without Chytil then we should look elsewhere. I have mentioned Elias Lindholm a lot. But to totally dismiss Eichel is silly and its negligent. He is an elite 1C. He has room to grow. Whatever shortcomings he has in his game can be improved.

I do think that if you add Eichel to Zibanejad you are putting yourself in playoff contention and further. One more LD being what would remain as most pressing to be addressed followed by a quality bottom 6 player.
 
If we do nothing leading into next year:

Bread - Mika - Buch
Laf - Chytil - KK
Kreider - Strome - Kravtsov
Lemmy - Howdy - Goat - Barron
(Lose one in expansion)
Black Aces

Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Trouba
Hajek - Lundkvist
Tarmo
(Plus TONS of organizational D depth)

Shesty - Georgie - (Wall?)

That lineup should already have us a step closer next year, as long as 12 different crazy mishaps don't occur.

We NEED to address the C position, though.
Mika will likely demand 1C money the following year, despite many question marks.
Chytil might never acclimate to faceoffs and top out as a "middle 6 F that can fill in at C."
Strome is looking like next year's "self-rental" if no trade materializes.
Howden is a fine 12th F, as long as the coach loves him.

If our first pick in this coming draft is not a C and we didn't trade it for one, I'm worried.
 
If that is who Seattle targets, we don't overthink it and get in the way of a good thing. We have center depth issues worse than the one on right wing.

Then you trade Strome instead of losing a 2c for nothing. Gauthier would be lucky to return Joey Keane at this point. I'm not bashing him, it's just a fact about his value. He may break out, but if we have to move Kratsov or Gauthier because of a logjam, they will return very little compared to Strome.
If there was a trade partner out there, why wasn’t one found this summer when the trade rumors were swirling? I’m not saying you’re wrong, but it’s not as simple as you’re making it out to be.

I’d prefer to get something for him over losing him for nothing too. But, at the same time, gaining $4.5M in cap space for free isn’t “nothing”.
 
So, what's given up for Eichel in this scenario? That's a false equivalency. We could still get a center prospect for Zibs and not give up a shit ton of assets for Eichel. IMO Eichel does not improve this team as much as you think he will. His strengths are already this teams long-term strengths. There's diminishing returns. He's a shiny luxury.

Still haven't answered on what Eichel will do for this team. What weakness would he shore up? besides being a center locked up past next year. He should shore up a weakness, no? Giving up top assets and cap space? Or are we just doing it to be marginally better in some areas? and worse in others? Which is arguable btw because offensively, Mika has been better/comparable to Eichel the previous 2 season but blows him out of the water in other areas.

The correct graph would be Chytil, Buch, Lundkvist, 1st + anyone we cant re-sign because of Eichel's cap > Eichel
I don’t want Eichel. I’ll take Chytil. Buch Nils and draft a center with our first in 21.
 
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You keep speaking as if Eichel has all these weaknesses. I have responded in kind with my rebuttals to you in that you talk as if Eichel has peaked at 24 years old. You ignore that Buffalo could be and is likely a large part of the issues in general. I am not going to critique Eichel’s 2-way game or defensive capabilities when I admittedly have not watched him on a regular basis. But I would venture to guess many of you havent either.

What I do know is he drives offense. He has a much more consistent body of work in his career than Zibanejad does. And the only reason Zib is brought into this is because his deal is up after next season and we have to plan for that. Eichel gives us insurance as a proven commodity who is ONLY 24 years old. You cannot assume Barkov will be there or that another center will become available. And what if its a center who is 27-28 and we are paying just as much of a premium for that center? We also cannot just assume Chytil will be able to take on the responsibilities and pressure of being the 1C. Do we then make a bad deal and sign Zib longterm with the risk of more injuries? Eichel is signed longterm and is 0.96 PPG player. Thats worth 75-85 points per season in that hell hole.

I have repeatedly stated that the trade cost gives me pause. I have said that Chytil being included especially gives me pause. We have accumulated so many assets that if we cannot manage a deal without Chytil then we should look elsewhere. I have mentioned Elias Lindholm a lot. But to totally dismiss Eichel is silly and its negligent. He is an elite 1C. He has room to grow. Whatever shortcomings he has in his game can be improved.

I do think that if you add Eichel to Zibanejad you are putting yourself in playoff contention and further. One more LD being what would remain as most pressing to be addressed followed by a quality bottom 6 player.
For the amount Eichel will improve this team, he will not be worth what'd we have to give up. That's my sticking point. I think Eichel will be a luxury. Offensively, it'd be like going from a Ferrari to a Koenigsegg.. There's a difference but it was more than enough already.

We have line drivers already though, on wing. Regular season points is nice but it's not going to win Cups. I brought up Zibs offense to prove, that we've had that production before. It's Zibs 2 way/complete overall game that really helps the team.

Eichel is a great talent. I just think its bad asset management to trade for him. 1C will be relative on this team. I'd rather have 3 good 2way centers, that can matchup and play whenever.

I dont know if Zibs is the answer long term but there's many scenarios that can play out here.. Hypothetically, If Zibs takes 5 year deal @ $7M.. Assuming he can return to form, which I can't see how he forgot to play hockey in 1 year. Add Chytil for a 4-5 year deal at or around $3M.. So, it could be Zibs and Chytil making $10M for 5 years, WHILE keeping Lundkvist, Buch and our picks. There's many variables here and I dont think we need Eichel to win, or he's even close to the best option.

Maybe my vision is just completely different than yours. 2way centers and our absurd depth is how I believe we will win.

Panarin Zibs Buch
Lafreniere Chytil Kakko
Kreider Strome Kravtsov

Miller Trouba
Lindgren Fox
Hajek Lundkvist
Robertson Schneider

Shesty

If we can upgrade Strome and/or Zibs with cheaper, better and/or younger 2way alternatives, I'm all for it. Age and skill is not why I do not like Eichel. It's his overall game. IF, that's a major IF... If he can play a complete game like Zibs has shown over the past 3 seasons, it would make more sense. I haven't seen that from him in his short career. I honestly dont even know how he will handle/perform in Playoff hockey since he's never been there. There's so many 'unknowns' for the cost..

If our management and scouts believe he can fill all those needs, then I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. Buf if we're replacing Zibs with Eichel, we are very weak/green defensively, down the middle. That's not a good recipe for winning IMO.
 
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We dont need Centers to be line-drivers. We have that all down the left side already. Panarin, Laf and Kreider. We have Kakko for sure. Kravtsov and Buch. Chytil is putting it together at 21, still developing into a good/dependable 2way.

IMO we need middle6 2way centers long term to compliment our wingers. Zibs was great 2 way top line talent; Even if he can return to 60-70% of what he did last year, he's a perfect fit depending on cost/risk. A better, defensive Strome.

I really believe this to be true. More Trevor Linden/ Steve Rucchin style.

No need to overpay for a center who wouldn't really change Panarin's game at all
 
I don’t think it’s a question of whether or not the Rangers are going to try to deal for Eichel if/when he becomes available. The chances of them throwing their hat in the ring are 100%. So it’s probably more productive to discuss what we think they are going to offer rather than if they should offer anything at all because the Rangers are absolutely going to be involved if this comes to pass.
 
Thanks for the link. Right now I protect Goat over Strome. He has breakout written all over him.

Why would you give away a 2c for nothing in favour of a tweener AHL/NHL player? Outside of the obvious that Gauthier isn't very good, keeping an unsigned strome past the deadline would be moronic.
 
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They already tried to trade Strome this past offseason and got ~no bites. None of them currently have much value in and of themselves. I guess Kravstov can return a new 1st rounder or something but that's not really appetizing.

They didn't get their asking price you mean. If they wanted to trade him they could have easily.
 
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If there was a trade partner out there, why wasn’t one found this summer when the trade rumors were swirling? I’m not saying you’re wrong, but it’s not as simple as you’re making it out to be.

I’d prefer to get something for him over losing him for nothing too. But, at the same time, gaining $4.5M in cap space for free isn’t “nothing”.
Were there no bites or nothing that Gorton was willing to accept? Even if there was zero interest, how much if it was driven by the cap crunch as opposed to his production? I would be careful in assigning too much weight to last summer given the unique circumstances.

But since then, he has maintained his ranger production and done it away from Panarin. He has only 1 year left which may be more appealing than arbitration or a 2 year deal. Our demands may change from an NHL body to futures if Chytil emerges more.

I don't mean to imply it's a piece of cake to move on. I think it's better to be "stuck" with him while losing Gauthier as opposed to losing him from the center slot for nothing.
 
Waiting for Barkov in 2022 seems like a better move in every way. If for some reason Barkov slips off the table and re-signs, you explore your move for Eichel or another frustrated talented C then.

Trading a house for Eichel will make us a contender.

Trading nothing and bringing in Barkov in 2022 makes us something special.

I really hope Barkov sees the light at the end of the tunnel plus the 10 mill a year the rangers will give him. Some panther fans are down right delusional. I was trying to have a conversation with them, and they got all bend out of shape and reported my post so I can’t respond. This place is getting pretty pathetic. It would be the icing on the cake to grab a number 1 C of Barkov’s caliber for nothing but cash. If that happens rebuild complete
 
I really hope Barkov sees the light at the end of the tunnel plus the 10 mill a year the rangers will give him. Some panther fans are down right delusional. I was trying to have a conversation with them, and they got all bend out of shape and reported my post so I can’t respond. This place is getting pretty pathetic. It would be the icing on the cake to grab a number 1 C of Barkov’s caliber for nothing but cash. If that happens rebuild complete
Barkov is gonna be more than 10 a year in Ny
 
Why would you give away a 2c for nothing in favour of a tweener AHL/NHL player? Outside of the obvious that Gauthier isn't very good, keeping an unsigned strome past the deadline would be moronic.
Gauthier continues to show potential despite your expert analysis. I definitely protect him from Seattle.
 
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