Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXX: MOAR sandpaper, guts & glory?

[Fitzy]

There's no way this team makes the playoffs now, being in this big of a hole and losing one of their top 3 defensemen for over a month.

Time to start playing the kids and thinking about offseason moves.

 

[RGY]

So Trouba goes on the LTIR and we get 8 million in cap room now, right?

With no one to spend it on for improvements anywhere

 

[Off Sides]

I don't think there are any illusions among management regarding Johnson, Smith, and Strome. Smith and Johnson are fodder that are here to fill gaps in the lineup when the kids aren't playing well. Smith is a carry over they couldn't get rid of. Not some guy they hand-picked to lead the rebuild. Strome was a guy they got in exchange for a useless player and he happened to mesh well with their Hart-worthy investment. They tried hard in the off season to find an upgrade but were unsuccessful so they had to settle for a short term commitment to the guy who at least produced last season. All 3 of those guys are stop-gaps who will be gone in the next 18 months, if not sooner.

I also don't think they're really counting on those 3 as the key leaders. I think Trouba, Kreider, and Zib are the leadership core right now. I think Trouba has been fine this season and has helped the blue line mature into something competent, especially compared to last season. Kreider and Zib were almost universally viewed as potential captains for this team. So I can't exactly lay fault at the feet of management for believing they'd provide leadership to the team. I'm sure the Rangers are just as concerned about their current state of play as we are.

As for the buyouts, they really had no choice there. You can certainly question them going after Shattenkirk in the first place, but again, my own thoughts notwithstanding, that was something that was widely considered as a positive addition at the time.

True, I do not agree with the universal or general consensus often concerning aging vets, so my viewpoint comes from a different place.

 

[kovazub94]

Thanks for the quick response, I'm new to the NHL Salary Cap, as I stated in my new post I posted a minute ago, so I'm trying to figure where guys fit AAV wise.

Hey don’t quote me as I’m far from a cap expert compared to some other posters here. I was just simply looking at Kreider’s contract, considering what it would have been with a flat cap projections and then discounting it further for several other factors.

 

[True Blue]

The biggest blow to the team was Chytil’s injury coupled with Zibanejad’s post-covid performance. Both things is in the realm of “can’t be anticipated”.

That is it right there. If just ZBad was to be half the player of last year the record looks very different.

For some context, let's look at on-ice shooting percentages:

Kaapo Kakko - 6.32%
Artemi Panarin - 5.68%
Chris Kreider - 4.88%
Jacob Trouba - 4.55%
Adam Fox - 3.97%
Mika Zibanejad - 3.80%
Alexis Lafreniere - 2.08%

Who is winning with that?

 

[kovazub94]

There's no way this team makes the playoffs now, being in this big of a hole and losing one of their top 3 defensemen for over a month.

Time to start playing the kids and thinking about offseason moves.

Start playing the kids? Kids have been playing...

 

[SRHRangers]

Hey don’t quote me as I’m far from a cap expert compared to some other posters here. I was just simply looking at Kreider’s contract, considering what it would have been with a flat cap projections and then discounting it further for several other factors.

I think you look at what Hoffman/Dadonov dealt with this offseason, and add 500k-1 mil AAV to Krieder for not having any black marks on their record and physical play.

I say Krieder would've gotten 4.5-5.5 mil AAV.

 

[True Blue]

4-6 weeks is a broken hand or something like that for trouba. Brutal

Jeff Gorton has Brendan Smith Libor Hajek Ryan Lindgren a kid in KAndre they loved over the summer break and Tarmo for the left side.

they chose to sign Bitetto and Johnson for some reason and decided not to sign one right handed dman knowing all you had was 8 23 and a volatile 77 who clearly was getting close to last straw status. They had dealt away keane and failed to sign lundkvist. So one injury to the right side would be tough to overcome. Two guys out? You’re screwed and here we are.

Given Covid, they wanted Lundkvist to stay in Sweden. And no one was predicting the DeAngelo situation. Bitetto was a taxi cab guy who has looked fine as a third pair defenseman. Not sure what is being fished for here.

 

[Kovalev27]

they figured they had 4RHD with Trouba, Fox, ADA and Smith.

Goes to show you how quick things can change.

3 actual righty shots and a guy that you barely trusted to play the right side at all a year ago.

that looked bad over the summer to everyone but gorton apparently

 

[Kovalev27]

Given Covid, they wanted Lundkvist to stay in Sweden. And no one was predicting the DeAngelo situation. Bitetto was a taxi cab guy who has looked fine as a third pair defenseman. Not sure what is being fished for here.

fishing for a 4th righty nhl dman. Why is that hard to follow?

 

[Machinehead]

If I told my students "I don't give a f*** what you write, I just want you to try very, very hard at it" do you have any idea what a disaster that would be? That's true of teaching anything.

I get that Quinn is a cheerleader, not a tactician. We were warned from the start. But if you no structure at all to apply effort to, then you're not really giving an effort, are you?

We need an identity and a specific plan that we apply our hard work to, or the hard work the wanes.

It's a larger issue than Quinn. The Rangers have, for as long as I can remember, tried to be gritty and talented. No shit, right? Great idea. But they consistently see the two as exclusive. They try to just throw grit at their project. It's like "hey, eggs are good for you, so here's eggs on top of your cherry pie." It's gross and it's not going to make you any more healthy than just the pie. You have to have a big-picture scheme, and incorporate the eggs.

Right now, we have a bunch of skill guys that can't score and a bunch of grit that isn't effective because we have no system that acts as cohesion between the two.

Gorton has the right idea in terms of a collection of players -- high-end talent and sandpaper. But what's the on-ice marriage between them?

Yelling it into existence is not going to work from a coaching standpoint.

 

[Fitzy]

Start playing the kids? Kids have been playing...

What I mean is start rotating in younger players over marginal veterans. Not advocating blowing things up, but they should spend the rest of the season getting looks at younger players.

Reunanen should be playing over Smith/Johnson. Hajek should stay in the lineup over Bitteto. Gauthier should stay in the lineup as well.

It should be Kreider, not Lafreniere, on the third line. Wall should be playing more in Hartford.

 

[True Blue]

I get that Quinn is a cheerleader, not a tactician. We were warned from the start. But if you no structure at all to apply effort to, then you're not really giving an effort, are you?

They are giving up less shots, suppressing high danger shots and are significantly better on the PK And there is no structure?

 

[True Blue]

fishing for a 4th righty nhl dman. Why is that hard to follow?

They had more than enough. And then DeAngelo got cut.

 

[kovazub94]

I think you look at what Hoffman/Dadonov dealt with this offseason, and add 500k-1 mil AAV to Krieder for not having any black marks on their record and physical play.

I say Krieder would've gotten 4.5-5.5 mil AAV.

You’re (probably more appropriately) looking at short terms deals while I was coming more from what a long- term deal could look like.

 

[Machinehead]

They are giving up less shots, suppressing high danger shots and are significantly better on the PK And there is no structure?

The defensive structure has made progress under Martin for sure but I think it's exposed that they don't know how to actually play offense without the game being a firewagon.

 

[RGY]

I said it yesterday, I will say it again...

IMO, there is not a significant gap in the level of talent between the Rangers and Islanders.

The difference is the voice that leads each group. One voice gets the most of out of each of his players, demands respect and their best efforts night and night out. Gets their players to buy in to get W’s on the board.

 

[Cmox]

I guarantee you Laf scores a goal if that line stays together.

Seeing Johnson rotate in with Miller makes me cringe

Pooor, poor , poor miller.

 

[DudMan28]

With how I saw Beniers and his defensive responsibility in WJC,

I'll say poor man's Bergeron before Hughes.

A defensive center who is efficient on offense would probably be a pretty good fit for our high end wingers.

 

[TominNC]

Would be nice to have more veteran experience with this team. I will keep saying it, Brian Boyle.

I will keep saying - NO

 

[kovazub94]

3 actual righty shots and a guy that you barely trusted to play the right side at all a year ago.

that looked bad over the summer to everyone but gorton apparently

C’mon there’re only so many contingencies that they could have built into their plan especially within unexpected cap limits they had to deal with in the first place.

 

[Trxjw]

There’s a difference between benching Zibanejad (with no Chytil) and Kreider (decent depth on wings).

Otherwise I disagree about Quinn. There’s a difference between bringing him in because of a factor like his reputation for development but not EXPECTING that he’d be able to develop as well to be the head coach of a contender. This is his 3rd season coaching this team and Kreider as a player so if he’s “afraid” to bench Kreider at this point - it’s a good enough reason to start looking for replacement because not making a move has been detrimental to the team and specifically could be detrimental to the development of youngsters.

We can disagree. That's fine. Is he "afraid" to bench Kreider or is he trying to exhaust his options for getting him back on track before going there? Some players respond well to demotions and benchings and others are better served with a talking to and an opportunity to play through it. Older players tend to get far more leash and often land more towards the latter.

 

[kovazub94]

They are giving up less shots, suppressing high danger shots and are significantly better on the PK And there is no structure?

Agree. If anything it’s Quinn’s ability to get the team UP to be ready to play is the issue.

 

[Off Sides]

Rangers built a cherry pie with eggs on it seems about right to me. Maybe not cherry, something like rutabaga... very expensive rutabaga where some of it is here for a very long time, spoiled rutabaga. Not sure if rutabaga spoils but I think you get my point.

 

[RGY]

I will keep saying - NO

Meanwhile... we keep losing...