Ghost of jas
Unsatisfied
Who are they bumping from last year? I guess Columbus and the Isles are possibilities. But, I do expect Florida to be the 4th team from the Atlantic, (granted I expected that last season.)
Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXI - We are in The End Game now.
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Who are they bumping from last year? I guess Columbus and the Isles are possibilities. But, I do expect Florida to be the 4th team from the Atlantic, (granted I expected that last season.)
UAGoalieGuy
Registered User
It really depends on how the kids play. If 2 or 3 over achieve it's possible. I dont think that's a reasonable expectation though.
charliemurphy
Registered User
Calad
Section 422
If Shattenkirk is bought out he counts 6.0m against the cap, if he is not bought out he counts 6.65 against it. So yes, it includes that number
ZiGOODejad
intangibles
- Nov 30, 2013
- 5,375
- 1,568
I think a lot more people here are worried a lot more the Jeff Gorton..
NYR Viper
Registered User
pld459666
Registered User
https://nypost.com/2019/07/28/kevin-shattenkirk-buyout-is-least-painful-solution-for-rangers-mess/
Its often said that the team that gets the best player in a trade wins the trade.
Tampa Bay dealt JT Miller for Vancouver’s 1st +. With all the players Jeff Gorton has sold off, he has not yet returned one single asset even remotely as valuable as Vancouver’s 1st.
Is JT Miller a good example of how we should conduct our business?? If we had locked up these kids — it’s we that should receive these assets. If Kreider had 2-3 years left, we would get grade A assets for him. If Hayes has 2-3 years left, he would have returned grade A assets. Stepan had term and the return was what it was.
We gave away all leverage with Buchnevich. Why should we do the same with TDA and Lemieux? Hockey players improve and peak in the their mid 20s. It’s a fact. You are paid for your performance. Why should we resign players so that their contract is up in their mid 20’s, when they can go to a arbitrator and get market value and we have no leverage? Why should we keep pissing away grade A assets every time Gorts renegotiates contract?
Does anyone seriously believe that we ever will be able to contend if we resign all players to bridge deals and then either have to move them for cents on the dollar or pay them insane money? It’s ridiculous. It’s short sighted.
Its often said that the team that gets the best player in a trade wins the trade.
Tampa Bay dealt JT Miller for Vancouver’s 1st +. With all the players Jeff Gorton has sold off, he has not yet returned one single asset even remotely as valuable as Vancouver’s 1st.
Is JT Miller a good example of how we should conduct our business?? If we had locked up these kids — it’s we that should receive these assets. If Kreider had 2-3 years left, we would get grade A assets for him. If Hayes has 2-3 years left, he would have returned grade A assets. Stepan had term and the return was what it was.
We gave away all leverage with Buchnevich. Why should we do the same with TDA and Lemieux? Hockey players improve and peak in the their mid 20s. It’s a fact. You are paid for your performance. Why should we resign players so that their contract is up in their mid 20’s, when they can go to a arbitrator and get market value and we have no leverage? Why should we keep pissing away grade A assets every time Gorts renegotiates contract?
Does anyone seriously believe that we ever will be able to contend if we resign all players to bridge deals and then either have to move them for cents on the dollar or pay them insane money? It’s ridiculous. It’s short sighted.
charliemurphy
Registered User
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
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They have 18m in cap space (after they demote 2 of their 9 D-men). Rantanen's situation doesn't prevent them from adding someone, like Kreider
- Nov 2, 2011
- 7,936
- 8,279
Still this talk on wanting to give 6 year deals to average players in their young 20s?
We did it with Zib and it is a fantastic contract, so good that we are keeping it ourselves rather than even entertaining the thought of a trade. We did it with Skjei, where are our premium assets for him? There's two examples of us doing that right there. Don't act like we never do the same in the right situation.
Nashville just gave one of those huge contracts to a lifetime bottom 6 player, is that what you want to do? What happens if TDA doesn't play as well the next couple years and then we just have an anchor.
We did it with Zib and it is a fantastic contract, so good that we are keeping it ourselves rather than even entertaining the thought of a trade. We did it with Skjei, where are our premium assets for him? There's two examples of us doing that right there. Don't act like we never do the same in the right situation.
Nashville just gave one of those huge contracts to a lifetime bottom 6 player, is that what you want to do? What happens if TDA doesn't play as well the next couple years and then we just have an anchor.
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
Dunno, if the Avs weren’t interested in what Gorton was asking for at the draft, doubt they’ve changed their mind
NYSPORTS
back afta dis. . .
- Jun 17, 2019
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Agreed
IMO however, until next season the Rangers have been too often in a cap mess. Next year the cap will start to really open up so maybe the strategy will change or alter a bit. With so many prospects (which is really odd) i’m feeling better with bridge deals b/c I believe the younger and lighter paid prospects will need the cash down the road. What i’m saying is it’s better to have a bridge deal than tying up an (ok, so/so) player for high dollars and risk losing a much better prospect.
I think the core of this team is not here yet and not in position to command big dollars. Big dollars which will start to be there come next season. Until then, it’s still a Sather cleanup.
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Calad
Section 422
Jets 1st round pick was probably at least as valuable, and he got lemieux on too of that. Vancouver pick is top15 protected next year, and that team is trending up they've amassed a ton of talent and it's gotten some seasoning already.
eco's bones
Registered User
These are the guys that have no future with the Rangers past their current contracts:
Vlad Namestnikov--he did great getting a year $8 mil deal out of us but he's been underwhelming pretty much since the day we got him. At best his salary should be around $2.5 per. Rangers might not have a buyer now but sooner or later he's going to move this season.
Kevin Shattenkirk--I can't foresee we'd sign Kevin again. I don't hate him mind you but we have a younger and cheaper replacement for him in Fox--however ready he is. Kevin doesn't kill many penalties and lost a lot of his power play time to Pionk and DeAngelo last year. The Rangers RD's all have offensive games and sheltering a 30 year old making over $6.5 mil is not a good idea. It also seems some are more concerned about buying him out than losing Kreider--I don't get it. Chris is very much worth his contract.
Marc Staal--I agree with Brooks--he still has a role. He is massively overpaid though for what he does. I think he plays out this season and then the Rangers decide whether to buy him out next summer. That also gives some of our LD prospects another year to get ready.
Brendan Smith--also massively overpaid considering he's not a lock to make the Rangers and even then not a lock to be a regular on their D. When a defenseman is getting paid over $4 mil to play 4th line LW--that's f***ed up and he needs to go as soon as possible.
Henrik Lundqvist--sure fire HOF'er and I hate to say it but there's no way I'm re-signing a 39 year old goalie.
So----we shouldn't fuss too much about moving or buying out any of the above.
Chris Kreider--he possibly has another contract but a 5 year deal is as far as I would go. I'd give him 4 years at $7 or 5 years at $6. If he won't accept that---he's a goner but the Rangers need to get a good---not a f***ed up return for him. He's a good player and he should have at least 4 or 5 good years left. My inclination would be hang on to him and deal him at the deadline if he wants more than the above offer. There will be teams that want him--he's a solid 25 goal + guy with size and tons of speed and he's been a good playoff performer. There will be teams looking for a guy like him.
Ryan Strome--he's an RFA next year--we'll see.
Vlad Namestnikov--he did great getting a year $8 mil deal out of us but he's been underwhelming pretty much since the day we got him. At best his salary should be around $2.5 per. Rangers might not have a buyer now but sooner or later he's going to move this season.
Kevin Shattenkirk--I can't foresee we'd sign Kevin again. I don't hate him mind you but we have a younger and cheaper replacement for him in Fox--however ready he is. Kevin doesn't kill many penalties and lost a lot of his power play time to Pionk and DeAngelo last year. The Rangers RD's all have offensive games and sheltering a 30 year old making over $6.5 mil is not a good idea. It also seems some are more concerned about buying him out than losing Kreider--I don't get it. Chris is very much worth his contract.
Marc Staal--I agree with Brooks--he still has a role. He is massively overpaid though for what he does. I think he plays out this season and then the Rangers decide whether to buy him out next summer. That also gives some of our LD prospects another year to get ready.
Brendan Smith--also massively overpaid considering he's not a lock to make the Rangers and even then not a lock to be a regular on their D. When a defenseman is getting paid over $4 mil to play 4th line LW--that's f***ed up and he needs to go as soon as possible.
Henrik Lundqvist--sure fire HOF'er and I hate to say it but there's no way I'm re-signing a 39 year old goalie.
So----we shouldn't fuss too much about moving or buying out any of the above.
Chris Kreider--he possibly has another contract but a 5 year deal is as far as I would go. I'd give him 4 years at $7 or 5 years at $6. If he won't accept that---he's a goner but the Rangers need to get a good---not a f***ed up return for him. He's a good player and he should have at least 4 or 5 good years left. My inclination would be hang on to him and deal him at the deadline if he wants more than the above offer. There will be teams that want him--he's a solid 25 goal + guy with size and tons of speed and he's been a good playoff performer. There will be teams looking for a guy like him.
Ryan Strome--he's an RFA next year--we'll see.
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Minmonster
Registered User
- May 13, 2018
- 204
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Oh well thanks for the constructive feedback.
A Shattenkirk buyout and a Belesky burial, with ADA and Lemmy taking their QOs gets you the deepest roster for this year.
You are going to hurt next year (the year where you want to take a step) by having $7.5M in deadspace.
What this will allow is for the Rangers to compete as much as they can this year (still don't expect the playoffs with a PK and Defensive team play where it was last year).
They can then sell-off Kreider, Fast, and Names at the deadline. Next year
You have $15M in space, with $7.5M in buyouts.
ADA, Georgie, Strome and Lemmy will need new contracts.
Hypothetically it's:
Ada: 4 x $4.7M
Lemmy: 2 x $2M
Georgie: 3 x $2.5M
Strome: 2 x $4M
That's $13.2M of that $15M that was available. Say the cap goes up by $2M.
So that's $4.2M left.
You will need 3 more NHL forwards with that $4.2M to replace Kreider, Names & Fast.
Okay- fine. Assume Kravstov takes a big step, and Kakko gets even better. You don't miss Chris, but you need bottom 6 depth.
$4.2M That's plenty right?
You sign two really good 4th line PK players. For that price.
But still no proven 2nd line center.
Barron & Miller turn pro and push for spots in the line up.
That scenario above doesn't say playoff team to me, the kids really have to take a step. And not just one. You will need 2 rookie/young defensemen to be good top 4 guys right away.
One of the kids has to work out as a top 6 center.
What you can bank on, is that between Bread and Zib you get 60 goals, and another 70 from Kakko, Kravstov and Buch.
One of Howden, Chytil and Lias has to become a 60 point center, and two rookie/young defensemen need to prove that they can be 22 minute a night defensemen.
That is what having $7.5M in dead space will do to you next year.
You are going to hurt next year (the year where you want to take a step) by having $7.5M in deadspace.
What this will allow is for the Rangers to compete as much as they can this year (still don't expect the playoffs with a PK and Defensive team play where it was last year).
They can then sell-off Kreider, Fast, and Names at the deadline. Next year
You have $15M in space, with $7.5M in buyouts.
ADA, Georgie, Strome and Lemmy will need new contracts.
Hypothetically it's:
Ada: 4 x $4.7M
Lemmy: 2 x $2M
Georgie: 3 x $2.5M
Strome: 2 x $4M
That's $13.2M of that $15M that was available. Say the cap goes up by $2M.
So that's $4.2M left.
You will need 3 more NHL forwards with that $4.2M to replace Kreider, Names & Fast.
Okay- fine. Assume Kravstov takes a big step, and Kakko gets even better. You don't miss Chris, but you need bottom 6 depth.
$4.2M That's plenty right?
You sign two really good 4th line PK players. For that price.
But still no proven 2nd line center.
Barron & Miller turn pro and push for spots in the line up.
That scenario above doesn't say playoff team to me, the kids really have to take a step. And not just one. You will need 2 rookie/young defensemen to be good top 4 guys right away.
One of the kids has to work out as a top 6 center.
What you can bank on, is that between Bread and Zib you get 60 goals, and another 70 from Kakko, Kravstov and Buch.
One of Howden, Chytil and Lias has to become a 60 point center, and two rookie/young defensemen need to prove that they can be 22 minute a night defensemen.
That is what having $7.5M in dead space will do to you next year.
broadwayblue
Registered User
The risk is it is a buyers market and you end up having to take what you can get.
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
Preach. They are forced to manage the cap this way because they always pay UFA prices - for their homegrown players because of when they sign them and for the Richards, Shattenkirks, and Panarins of the world to fill extremely important roles that they can't fill internally.
Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
- May 30, 2013
- 44,304
- 21,915
Arizona's 7th pick had more value than any pick the Lightning will get from the Canucks this year
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
A couple of discrepancies.
1) Either Smith is in the minors, providing you with another $1.1MM in space to work with, or he's on the fourth line taking up one of those forward spots.
2) Not sure I agree with your contract numbers. Or that all those players will still be here. (Strome, in particular, if he's commanding $4MM, can easily be replaced from within by one of the kids.)
3) We signed Greg McKegg who is a fine 4th liner for $750K this offseason. I assume similar moves will be available next offseason.
I also would like to avoid unnecessary buyouts, but I don't think the picture's as dark as you paint it.
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