Speculation: Roster Building Thread LVIII: At part 58, I am out of titles.

[bobbop]

I am still hoping for that Gorton can get something done down the trade route with Shattenkirk. For example, Trouba is owed 10.6m and has a 13.5m cap hit over two years. If Gorton can deal him for a similar contract but that isn’t front-loaded, that itself is a big win.

Would like a team like CBJ consider Shatty for Dubinsky? Dubinsky’s buy-out is just 1.9m per for 4 years. We would save 4.9m per for the coming 2 years. Dubi is owed the same amount of money as Shatty. Shatty should have much more value than Dubi IMO, could we get CBJ — or another team with a similar contract — to retain some? There are many contracts like that out there...

At this point in the process, the Rangers can’t trade for a player and buy him out.

 

[bobbop]

Brooks didn’t say anything in that article. Looks like a paranoid hf post

Actually I thought Brooksie made a pretty good point. None of us geniuses here had figured out the nine year alternative. It’s risky for Trouba and the Rangers but plausible. The reason I don’t think it will work is the future Mrs. Trouba and their desire to settle in a major city’s she can continue to advance her career.

 

[Irishguy42]

None of us geniuses here had figured out the nine year alternative.

You're right. I saw it on NYR Twitter before Larry's article came out though.

@Amazing Kreiderman was part of it, I think.

And you're right, it iz super risky. Can cause relations between the team and player to sour really quickly. One would have to hope and pray that if such a deal were signed, they already have an 8-year deal agreed upon and sealed away in a "Do NOT open until July 1, 2020" envelope.

 

[Elliman]

Out of curiosity if a player ever wanted to restructure a contract later in his career in order to help the team get the cap hit down or reduce the years remaining would the NHL or NHLPA ever approve such a thing?

Obviously if a contract is front loaded it shouldn’t be allowed but if it’s say 8 years x 10mill per with actual cash payments about equal throughout the term then what’s stopping say Lundqvist restructuring his deal to say a 2 year deal at 4.5 million per for his love of the team and to give him a chance of making a run at the cup.

The kicker is the money given up by Hanks must be spent ASAP on a different player. Any team that does this will be forbidden to trade, release or send down said player.

I think they do this in the NFL somewhat but I’m probably wrong.

 

[bobbop]

Out of curiosity if a player ever wanted to restructure a contract later in his career in order to help the team get the cap hit down or reduce the years remaining would the NHL or NHLPA ever approve such a thing?

Obviously if a contract is front loaded it shouldn’t be allowed but if it’s say 8 years x 10mill per with actual cash payments about equal throughout the term then what’s stopping say Lundqvist restructuring his deal to say a 2 year deal at 4.5 million per for his love of the team and to give him a chance of making a run at the cup.

The kicker is the money given up by Hanks must be spent ASAP on a different player. Any team that does this will be forbidden to trade, release or send down said player.

I think they do this in the NFL somewhat but I’m probably wrong.

No. Once you sign a contract, that’s the contract. No changes along the way.

 

[bobbop]

You're right. I saw it on NYR Twitter before Larry's article came out though.

@Amazing Kreiderman was part of it, I think.

And you're right, it iz super risky. Can cause relations between the team and player to sour really quickly. One would have to hope and pray that if such a deal were signed, they already have an 8-year deal agreed upon and sealed away in a "Do NOT open until July 1, 2020" envelope.

People in different parts of the country get to see the Post at different times due to their regional servers. You and I may not be able to see the article at the same time. Larry gets the “first to report” credit here.

And if for some reason Trouba takes a one year deal, the Rangers can then do an extension on January 1. They don’t have to wait until July.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

You're right. I saw it on NYR Twitter before Larry's article came out though.

@Amazing Kreiderman was part of it, I think.

And you're right, it iz super risky. Can cause relations between the team and player to sour really quickly. One would have to hope and pray that if such a deal were signed, they already have an 8-year deal agreed upon and sealed away in a "Do NOT open until July 1, 2020" envelope.

Stalker

 

[gravey9]

At this point, I think Gorton already has all of the contract negotiating done (cept maybe Kreider) and is waiting to announce/finalize any deals until the moves to clear cap are completed. If he announces the signings before the moves, then he has even less leverage than he has now.

Also, the fact that he has not announced the signings means there is a likelihood of at least one trade that will happen prior to any buyouts. That said, a lot can happen in 2 weeks and if he's not likely to get a decent return for any trades we could be looking at mostly buyouts to clear space. We'll see.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers knew what they were getting themselves into with Trouba. The guy is major pain in the ass when it comes to negotiating a contract. You can say Overhardt is a ball buster but he works for Trouba.

The 8 year contract comes into play if Trouba is on the Rangers roster at the 2020 trading deadline.

I really like Trouba. Really wanted him in 2016. Wanted him on the Rangers less this time around because of the contract. Does he really really want to sign long term one year ahead of true free agency?

The trade was made one month ago tomorrow and the contract isn't done.

There is nothing to stop Trouba from signing a one year contract or going to arbitration and exploring free agency next summer. If he wants to stay in NY, he will sign a long term contract then.

EJ Hradek discussed this topic twice last week. The Rangers want to sign the player to a long term deal and Trouba has said he wants to sign long term with the Rangers but business is business. Brooks isn't the first media member to discuss this topic. You never know what the player is thinking.

Gorton needs to trade Trouba at the trade deadline if the player doesn't want to sign with the Rangers.

Will the Rangers get a pick better than #20 and a useful D for a Trouba as a rental? Probably not.

Trouba can say he wants more than $8M. He has all of the leverage here.

 

[RangerBoy]

Never say never, but this reads like dog days filler while we wait for the process to play out, IMO.

I saw EJ Hradek discussing this topic on the NHL Network twice last week. He discussed it when they were looking at the arbitration list on the show. Hradek said he had talked to Gorton the day before. I think he made those comments on Tuesday. He spoke to Gorton on Monday. Gorton appeared on a segment on the NHL Network with Hradek on Thursday.

The Rangers want to sign the player to a 7 year year deal and the player has said all of the right things but you never know.

 

[pld459666]

They can always decide to have Lemieux and DeAngelo sign their QO, taking them to arb eligibility in 2020. That would come down to 906k for ADA and 881k for Lemmy. Buchnevich 2.5m for 2 years, Trouba 7m and you can fit that under the cap with 1 buy out

I hope this is the route that everyone takes.

This alleviates any pressure to make a trade not beneficial to the Rangers and allows them to ice what should be a decently competitive team for 2019-20

 

[SA16]

The Rangers don’t really have an incentive to announce any signings prior to the day of arbitration for Trouba and Buchnevich. More so for Buchnevich since he’s second.

In any case for Trouba if he wants to maximize earnings taking a one year deal is absolutely the right move for him.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

The Rangers don’t really have an incentive to announce any signings prior to the day of arbitration for Trouba and Buchnevich. More so for Buchnevich since he’s second.

In any case for Trouba if he wants to maximize earnings taking a one year deal is absolutely the right move for him.

But is it? For himself personally, yes. For his wife/fiance not so much if shes looking to establish her career. A lot could happen between now and the 2020 TDL when hes eligible to sign that 8 year extension.

 

[pld459666]

The Rangers knew what they were getting themselves into with Trouba. The guy is major pain in the ass when it comes to negotiating a contract. You can say Overhardt is a ball buster but he works for Trouba.

The 8 year contract comes into play if Trouba is on the Rangers roster at the 2020 trading deadline.

I really like Trouba. Really wanted him in 2016. Wanted him on the Rangers less this time around because of the contract. Does he really really want to sign long term one year ahead of true free agency?

The trade was made one month ago tomorrow and the contract isn't done.

There is nothing to stop Trouba from signing a one year contract or going to arbitration and exploring free agency next summer. If he wants to stay in NY, he will sign a long term contract then.

EJ Hradek discussed this topic twice last week. The Rangers want to sign the player to a long term deal and Trouba has said he wants to sign long term with the Rangers but business is business. Brooks isn't the first media member to discuss this topic. You never know what the player is thinking.

Gorton needs to trade Trouba at the trade deadline if the player doesn't want to sign with the Rangers.

Will the Rangers get a pick better than #20 and a useful D for a Trouba as a rental? Probably not.

Trouba can say he wants more than $8M. He has all of the leverage here.

If Trouba repeats his last season, I have no doubt they get a better return at the deadline than what they paid to get him.

Top pairing RH D?

He would be the crown jewel at the TDL

 

[Vitto79]

Trouba will sign long term. He essentially called his shot here

Just a matter of time as I’m sure they want to clear a contract first

When are they even allowed to buyout someone ?

 

[RGY]

I saw EJ Hradek discussing this topic on the NHL Network twice last week. He discussed it when they were looking at the arbitration list on the show. Hradek said he had talked to Gorton the day before. I think he made those comments on Tuesday. He spoke to Gorton on Monday. Gorton appeared on a segment on the NHL Network with Hradek on Thursday.

The Rangers want to sign the player to a 7 year year deal and the player has said all of the right things but you never know.

EJ Hradek is pure filler space.

 

[Anzi]

Trouba will sign long term. He essentially called his shot here

Just a matter of time as I’m sure they want to clear a contract first

When are they even allowed to buyout someone ?

They can't buyout anyone until 3 days after the last arbitration hearing but you're allowed to go 10% over the cap in the summer. Just need to get under the cap afterwards.

 

[LORDE]

The Trouba and Panarin situations are quite the gamble... going to have to see how it plays out.

If either one doesn't show up with the game they left their prior clubs with, it could get ugly very quickly here.

 

[Mikos87]

One things to keep in mind- The Rangers need a buyout, perhaps even two to make Trouba & the other RFAs fit.

It could very well be that they are waiting to sign Trouba near the arbitration dates to pull the trigger on the buyouts.

The Rangers need to clear ~$5.3M in addition to the cap space that they have today.

I think Smith is a goner via buyout.

That's $3.3M.

You need to clear another $2M. I would expect Names to be moved. You can retain $1M, and take on two one-way contracts that can be buried in the minors and make things work.

 

[Vitto79]

So is Detroit not a good trade partner w The Yzerman history ?

Had Namestnikov , knows his value and can either resign him or flip him for atbthe deadline

He also likes Shattenkirk.

They have space and can throw Daley or Erickson over to offset salary . 1 yr UFAs can spare in Ny

 

[Waivers]

Brendan Lemieux is playing at NARCh right now with Jake Virtanen in Irvine, CA. Roller hockey championships if anyone is curious.

 

[Good Intentions]

I’m fairly certain I’m not the only one experiencing withdrawals from the rapid fire flurry of moves that we’ve enjoyed since the draft. Kakko/Trouba/Panarin is an epic troika of haymakers.

My question for you:

From here on (two separate questions, in fact) what moves do you forecast to actually occur - and what moves (within reason) would you act on?

I’ll give it a shot:

I see Kreider staying - and I would definitely keep him unless the value back was blowing the door open (it isn’t/won’t be)...

Brendan Smith will be in Hartford (and I would do it)...

Namestnikov will end up staying...

It will be DeAngelo that gets dealt away in August. The redundancy of skill with Fox and co. Combined with Quinn’s bad experience is the nail in the coffin. Wasn’t DeAngelo unable to play a game down the stretch because he was too messed up from the night before? Quinn didn’t publicly make a big deal about it - it didn’t have to, he’s done with him.

I’m thinking Trouba does not get the long term deal - until next July after our deep postseason run...

Oh, and we will end up adding another forward, ensuring Lias is in Hartford...

 

[GAGLine]

I’m fairly certain I’m not the only one experiencing withdrawals from the rapid fire flurry of moves that we’ve enjoyed since the draft. Kakko/Trouba/Panarin is an epic troika of haymakers.

My question for you:

From here on (two separate questions, in fact) what moves do you forecast to actually occur - and what moves (within reason) would you act on?

I’ll give it a shot:

I see Kreider staying - and I would definitely keep him unless the value back was blowing the door open (it isn’t/won’t be)...

Brendan Smith will be in Hartford (and I would do it)...

Namestnikov will end up staying...

It will be DeAngelo that gets dealt away in August. The redundancy of skill with Fox and co. Combined with Quinn’s bad experience is the nail in the coffin. Wasn’t DeAngelo unable to play a game down the stretch because he was too messed up from the night before? Quinn didn’t publicly make a big deal about it - it didn’t have to, he’s done with him.

I’m thinking Trouba does not get the long term deal - until next July after our deep postseason run...

Oh, and we will end up adding another forward, ensuring Lias is in Hartford...

Smith in Hartford only saves 1.075 mil. That's not nearly enough, even with ADA traded. As far as what you described regarding ADA, I have no knowledge of that. It's certainly possible that he was in Quinn's doghouse due to some off-ice issue. I don't recall there being any mention of the particulars. If you have information regarding it, please share.

Kreider is gone. It's just a matter of time. I don't see Gorton re-signing him. There will be at least one buyout. Names will probably be traded with retention.

If Trouba is on a 1 year deal, it probably means he actually went to arbitration. I can't see the Rangers offering a 1 year deal unless it's a nod-nod-wink-wink scenario where he signs for less now and then gets a longer term deal for more money in January. A 1 year deal is probably going to pay him 6.5 mil anyway, so it's not that much savings.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

One things to keep in mind- The Rangers need a buyout, perhaps even two to make Trouba & the other RFAs fit.

It could very well be that they are waiting to sign Trouba near the arbitration dates to pull the trigger on the buyouts.

The Rangers need to clear ~$5.3M in addition to the cap space that they have today.

I think Smith is a goner via buyout.

That's $3.3M.

You need to clear another $2M. I would expect Names to be moved. You can retain $1M, and take on two one-way contracts that can be buried in the minors and make things work.

I think what's going on is Gorton is actively trying to clear as much cap space as possible for solid value and obviously he's having a tough time because the market is over saturated.

My prediction, Smith is bought out, and unfortunately it's Fast as the sacrificial lamb as he goes to a team for a 3rd rounder. That's about $5.1 million. Names will be dealt later in the summer or early in the season.

 

[NYRFAN218]

The Rangers knew what they were getting themselves into with Trouba. The guy is major pain in the ass when it comes to negotiating a contract. You can say Overhardt is a ball buster but he works for Trouba.

The 8 year contract comes into play if Trouba is on the Rangers roster at the 2020 trading deadline.

I really like Trouba. Really wanted him in 2016. Wanted him on the Rangers less this time around because of the contract. Does he really really want to sign long term one year ahead of true free agency?

The trade was made one month ago tomorrow and the contract isn't done.

There is nothing to stop Trouba from signing a one year contract or going to arbitration and exploring free agency next summer. If he wants to stay in NY, he will sign a long term contract then.

EJ Hradek discussed this topic twice last week. The Rangers want to sign the player to a long term deal and Trouba has said he wants to sign long term with the Rangers but business is business. Brooks isn't the first media member to discuss this topic. You never know what the player is thinking.

Gorton needs to trade Trouba at the trade deadline if the player doesn't want to sign with the Rangers.

Will the Rangers get a pick better than #20 and a useful D for a Trouba as a rental? Probably not.

Trouba can say he wants more than $8M. He has all of the leverage here.

They probably won't get a pick better than #20 but I'd be really confident in saying they'll get a prospect/player/pick that projects out much better than Pionk.

To me, there's really no way the Rangers lose this entire sequence in terms of assets barring a significant injury. Either they get their man locked up long term or they flip him at the deadline and get back the equivalent or better of what they paid. Hayes fetched a very good return at the deadline as a rental due to him being a center and I can't imagine there'd be a shortage of suitors for a top pairing righty shot defenseman at the deadline.