Speculation: Roster Building Thread LVIII: At part 58, I am out of titles.

[Kaapo Cabana]

Who’s trading for Strome or Names at full pop right now?

Brassard was awful last season.

The futures would probably not be equal in value to what Strome & Names bring, but the opportunity cost on those two isn't that high in the first place so I'd be fine with losing both of those deals.

to quote one of my favorite bands, "you gotta lose a couple fights to win"

 

[Gardner McKay]

This, I really hate the logic being presented of "we're gonna be bad so lets intentionally make bad roster decisions".

That is disingenuous and you know it.

 

[Ola]

To be fair to @KreiderBomb he only referred to how much Redden sucked past his prime, and he did not say that signing Brassard to a 1 year deal at 1.5m would be comparable to the deal we gave Redden.

If Brassard sucked as much now as Redden did before the end of his tenure here he wouldn’t be a good signing.

 

[GAGLine]

Lots of posters feeling the pressure here. Gorton shouldn’t be feeling any.

If a trade is there to be made to clear space, he’ll make it. Otherwise, there’s no need to rush when the season doesn’t start for another 3 months. The next order of business is just to get Trouba and Buchnevich signed. It’s not like their non-signing is “holding up” any of his other moves anyway. Everyone in the league knows Trouba is getting something around $7m. Buch’s number is a little less certain, but only within a certain range of around $2.5 - $4m or so.

Gorton will get these guys signed because they each have actual deadlines attached to them within the next 2 weeks. There’s still another 2 months after that to figure out the rest of the roster.

The only other item that has an actual deadline approaching is the buyout window, but I’m not expecting Gorton to buyout anyone. Every comment management has made has shown a focus on the future, so to me there’s no indication that they have an appetite to tie up cap space 4 years down the road.

There is pressure on Gorton because we may have to buy players out to make the RFAs fit. The buyout window opens 3 days after the last arbitration case is settled and lasts for 48 hours. Buch's hearing is on the 29th. Assuming Gorton waits until that day to sign Buch, the buyout window will open on August 1st and we'll have until August 3rd to perform any buyouts.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Lots of posters feeling the pressure here. Gorton shouldn’t be feeling any.

If a trade is there to be made to clear space, he’ll make it. Otherwise, there’s no need to rush when the season doesn’t start for another 3 months. The next order of business is just to get Trouba and Buchnevich signed. It’s not like their non-signing is “holding up” any of his other moves anyway. Everyone in the league knows Trouba is getting something around $7m. Buch’s number is a little less certain, but only within a certain range of around $2.5 - $4m or so.

Gorton will get these guys signed because they each have actual deadlines attached to them within the next 2 weeks. There’s still another 2 months after that to figure out the rest of the roster.

The only other item that has an actual deadline approaching is the buyout window, but I’m not expecting Gorton to buyout anyone. Every comment management has made has shown a focus on the future, so to me there’s no indication that they have an appetite to tie up cap space 4 years down the road.

Forget the "can this be stickied" call to arms.

This post should be the thread title.

 

[Tawnos]

Doubt very much we will see either Howden or Andersson spend much time in the AHL.

I don't truly think some here believe this, but it bugs me when people talk about young players as if they're going to be what they were last season. Yes, Howden had an extended rough stretch last year between his good start and his injury... but he was also a rookie. Most rookies go through that kind of stuff. For the coaching staff, what they need to do is find focus areas for Howden to work at... and beyond that, it's a new season.

For a lot of posters around here, myself included, this is the first time we're really seeing young players as the focus of what the organization is doing. It's hard not to compare them to what we see from finished products, because the play of finished products is what we're used to focusing on, but I'm not ready to definitively say anything about any of the youth on the team. For example, Chytil didn't do well in 90% of the chances he got to play center last season and only did well with it for a couple of games before getting injured at the end. Does that mean he projects better as a winger? No, not really. He's too raw of a product to be making those kinds of declarative statements at this point.

 

[Tawnos]

There is pressure on Gorton because we may have to buy players out to make the RFAs fit. The buyout window opens 3 days after the last arbitration case is settled and lasts for 48 hours. Buch's hearing is on the 29th. Assuming Gorton waits until that day to sign Buch, the buyout window will open on August 1st and we'll have until August 3rd to perform any buyouts.

Yes. If the cap situation hasn't been addressed via trade by 8/3, we should expect to see a buyout. And since I'm sure they view a buyout as the last resort, the pressure is on to get trades done before then. August 1 is exactly 3 weeks from today.

 

[TheBPA]

Yes. If the cap situation hasn't been addressed via trade by 8/3, we should expect to see a buyout. And since I'm sure they view a buyout as the last resort, the pressure is on to get trades done before then. August 1 is exactly 3 weeks from today.

Management could trade namestnikov and strome for almost nothing and avoid a buyout, sign the remaining RFAs, and then still trade Kreider for real assets after that.

That’s literally the worst case scenario. Cap space is an asset. They are not going to blow cap space for the next 4 years with a buyout just to be compliant this year.

 

[Tawnos]

Management could trade namestnikov and strome for almost nothing and avoid a buyout, sign the remaining RFAs, and then still trade Kreider for real assets after that.

That’s literally the worst case scenario. Cap space is an asset. They are not going to blow cap space for the next 4 years with a buyout just to be compliant this year.

You still have to make those trades and there is pressure to do that. Beyond that, you don't know exactly what the RFA signings are going to cost. Trading Namestnikov and Strome saves you about $5.7m ($4m+$3.2m- 2 $700-800k replacements). Will that be enough? What if it turns out that you need another $500k and you missed the buyout window?

Also, it's not "blowing cap space for 4 years." It's saving cap space for 2 and costing cap space for 2, except in the case of Shattenkirk who only saves you money this year.

 

[TheBPA]

You still have to make those trades and there is pressure to do that.

Also, it's not "blowing cap space for 4 years." It's saving cap space for 2 and costing cap space for 2, except in the case of Shattenkirk who only saves you money this year.

There’s no pressure because those trades can be made at any time. Not by August 3 or whatever.

Semantics regarding cap space. Either way you cost yourself cap space during the time period in which you expect to be competing so that you can save it during the time period in which you are farther away from competing. They’re not doing that.

 

[GAGLine]

Management could trade namestnikov and strome for almost nothing and avoid a buyout, sign the remaining RFAs, and then still trade Kreider for real assets after that.

That’s literally the worst case scenario. Cap space is an asset. They are not going to blow cap space for the next 4 years with a buyout just to be compliant this year.

To which teams? And the second Gorton trades one of those players for less than their perceived value, every person on this board saying how easy it is to trade players will then be complaining about the return.

Everyone loves to minimize the difficulty of making trades, but the reality is that it isn't easy. There are a finite amount of teams and each team has a finite amount of cap space and roster spots. Just because a team has cap space doesn't mean they will be willing to take a contract off our hands, even if the player has positive value.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The two aren't even remotely comparable. Brassard on a 1 year deal doesn't hurt anyone

It hurts Anderson, Nieves and any other young player we could be giving ice time to instead. Brassard isnt the same player anymore it's time to close that chapter, we traded him at the exact right time.

 

[BBKers]

Lots of posters feeling the pressure here. Gorton shouldn’t be feeling any.

If a trade is there to be made to clear space, he’ll make it. Otherwise, there’s no need to rush when the season doesn’t start for another 3 months. The next order of business is just to get Trouba and Buchnevich signed. It’s not like their non-signing is “holding up” any of his other moves anyway. Everyone in the league knows Trouba is getting something around $7m. Buch’s number is a little less certain, but only within a certain range of around $2.5 - $4m or so.

Gorton will get these guys signed because they each have actual deadlines attached to them within the next 2 weeks. There’s still another 2 months after that to figure out the rest of the roster.

The only other item that has an actual deadline approaching is the buyout window, but I’m not expecting Gorton to buyout anyone. Every comment management has made has shown a focus on the future, so to me there’s no indication that they have an appetite to tie up cap space 4 years down the road.

The Trouba deal has fueled speculation that the Rangers might buy out the contract of one of their veteran defensemen. Kevin Shattenkirk is the highest paid at $6,650,000 for the upcoming season, but Marc Staal ($5,700,000) and Brendan Smith ($4,350,000) could also be possibilities. Gorton acknowledged that it’s a consideration.“We’ll keep that option open,” he said. “As of right now, I don’t have an answer yes on anybody. But we’ll see what happens. A lot can happen over the next few days, or the next week or so, to influence that.”

New York Rangers GM Jeff Gorton talks NHL Draft, Kaapo Kakko, Jacob Trouba's contract and buyouts

 

[Leetch3]

You still have to make those trades and there is pressure to do that. Beyond that, you don't know exactly what the RFA signings are going to cost. Trading Namestnikov and Strome saves you about $5.7m ($4m+$3.2m- 2 $700-800k replacements). Will that be enough? What if it turns out that you need another $500k and you missed the buyout window?

Also, it's not "blowing cap space for 4 years." It's saving cap space for 2 and costing cap space for 2, except in the case of Shattenkirk who only saves you money this year.

thats true that you are saving cap space for 2 years...but I also think that avoiding dead space is the most ideal scenario. obviously that might not be possible but i'd rank the options

1) trade without retaining
2) trade while retaining on 1 year contract (no future cap hit)
3) trade while retaining on 2 year contract (dead space for just 1 year, but really saving for 2 years)
4) buyout (dead space into 3rd and 4th year)

all 4 options would work for the current season but obviously a buyout is the least favorable and therefore the last option.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I didn't watch a lot of Brassard last season, but Howden was absolutely AHL level. So I find that hard to believe.

He needs to be make extraordinary progress just to be a serviceable 4th line C. Forget 2nd line.

Brassard wouldnt make my beer league team the way he played last year. He was never speedy but the game has passed him by big time.

 

[TheBPA]

To which teams? And the second Gorton trades one of those players for less than their perceived value, every person on this board saying how easy it is to trade players will then be complaining about the return.

Everyone loves to minimize the difficulty of making trades, but the reality is that it isn't easy. There are a finite amount of teams and each team has a finite amount of cap space and roster spots. Just because a team has cap space doesn't mean they will be willing to take a contract off our hands, even if the player has positive value.

The return, aside from any actual assets, is cap space. The “cap space asset” is better obtained by trading players that we don’t view as having a long term future here anyway (and don’t have a perceived high market value, like Kreider), instead of buying players out and hurting yourself done the road.

What’s the market value in an ideal world for namestnikov / strome? Maybe a 3rd rounder or so each? If they were to each get traded for a 5th rounder instead so as to sign the remainder of our RFAs and not buyout anyone, and people want to complain about that, then go ahead.

The only move Gorton really has any pressure to figure out is with respect to Kreider. And that’s pressure with respect to the return, not the timing. Everything else consists of issues that will all be sorted out in due course.

 

[Tawnos]

There’s no pressure because those trades can be made at any time. Not by August 3 or whatever.

Semantics regarding cap space. Either way you cost yourself cap space during the time period in which you expect to be competing so that you can save it during the time period in which you are farther away from competing. They’re not doing that.

We will see. You really shouldn't be talking so confidently.

Like I said in my edit... trading Namestnikov and Strome saves you ~$5.6m in cap space. More likely, that number is closer to $5.25m in cap space since their replacements will be Kakko and Kravtsov on a max ELCs. Is $13.25m enough to sign all 4 RFAs? More to the point... is $5.25m enough to sign Buchnevich, DeAngelo, and Lemieux? It'll be tight. A buyout gives them some breathing room, in addition to potentially preventing us from having to defer bonuses to the 20-21 cap. That would be dead space too.

 

[TheBPA]

The Trouba deal has fueled speculation that the Rangers might buy out the contract of one of their veteran defensemen. Kevin Shattenkirk is the highest paid at $6,650,000 for the upcoming season, but Marc Staal ($5,700,000) and Brendan Smith ($4,350,000) could also be possibilities. Gorton acknowledged that it’s a consideration.“We’ll keep that option open,” he said. “As of right now, I don’t have an answer yes on anybody. But we’ll see what happens. A lot can happen over the next few days, or the next week or so, to influence that.”

New York Rangers GM Jeff Gorton talks NHL Draft, Kaapo Kakko, Jacob Trouba's contract and buyouts

Fair to point out, but hardly a ringing endorsement of them planning on using a buyout.

 

[Tawnos]

thats true that you are saving cap space for 2 years...but I also think that avoiding dead space is the most ideal scenario. obviously that might not be possible but i'd rank the options

1) trade without retaining
2) trade while retaining on 1 year contract (no future cap hit)
3) trade while retaining on 2 year contract (dead space for just 1 year, but really saving for 2 years)
4) buyout (dead space into 3rd and 4th year)

all 4 options would work for the current season but obviously a buyout is the least favorable and therefore the last option.

No doubt that the buyout is the last resort option, but if they're not 100% for sure below the cap by the time the buyout window opens, I believe they'll pull the trigger on a buyout simply to guarantee they'll be able to get there.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don't think anyone who is penciling Kreider into the lineup is being realistic.

the only way he stays is if the offers absolutely suck and I have no reason to believe that they will.

 

[Ola]

Lots of posters feeling the pressure here. Gorton shouldn’t be feeling any.

If a trade is there to be made to clear space, he’ll make it. Otherwise, there’s no need to rush when the season doesn’t start for another 3 months. The next order of business is just to get Trouba and Buchnevich signed. It’s not like their non-signing is “holding up” any of his other moves anyway. Everyone in the league knows Trouba is getting something around $7m. Buch’s number is a little less certain, but only within a certain range of around $2.5 - $4m or so.

Gorton will get these guys signed because they each have actual deadlines attached to them within the next 2 weeks. There’s still another 2 months after that to figure out the rest of the roster.

The only other item that has an actual deadline approaching is the buyout window, but I’m not expecting Gorton to buyout anyone. Every comment management has made has shown a focus on the future, so to me there’s no indication that they have an appetite to tie up cap space 4 years down the road.

That is a good point. He does have at least 2 more months to do business before camp.

 

[TheBPA]

We will see. You really shouldn't be talking so confidently.

Like I said in my edit... trading Namestnikov and Strome saves you ~$5.6m in cap space. More likely, that number is closer to $5.25m in cap space since their replacements will be Kakko and Kravtsov on a max ELCs. Is $13.25m enough to sign all 4 RFAs? More to the point... is $5.25m enough to sign Buchnevich, DeAngelo, and Lemieux? It'll be tight. A buyout gives them some breathing room, in addition to potentially preventing us from having to defer bonuses to the 20-21 cap. That would be dead space too.

Ok. All I said is there’s no pressure to complete the puzzle in 3 weeks. Barring a favorable trade that manifested itself, if you’re expecting the roster to be complete by August 1, prepare to be disappointed.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Brassard wouldnt make my beer league team the way he played last year. He was never speedy but the game has passed him by big time.

I'm not married to the Brass idea at all. More just against the idea of assuming Howden is ready for a larger role. Not Brass b/c he's done is fine. but not Brass b/c we already have a better guy Howden is ehhhh

 

[Tawnos]

I don't think anyone who is penciling Kreider into the lineup is being realistic.

the only way he stays is if the offers absolutely suck and I have no reason to believe that they will.

I think the front office would prefer to keep him now and move him at the deadline, but there's also a strong chance that he's the one who will get a fair value trade offer this off-season.

 

[Tawnos]

Ok. All I said is there’s no pressure to complete the puzzle in 3 weeks. Barring a favorable trade that manifested itself, if you’re expecting the roster to be complete by August 1, prepare to be disappointed.

I'm not saying I think the roster will be complete. I'm saying that if the Rangers haven't been able to move out enough salary by then, they'll do a buyout simply to guarantee getting some money off the books.