Speculation: Roster Building Thread LIX: To trade or not to trade CK?

[GAGLine]

I look at more than just the current season. The final year of the initial contract is always the toughest with a buy out. It usually includes the cap hit of signing bonuses etc. We don't have any big contracts coming off the books in 2020, only in 2021. Buying out Shattenkirk makes no sense to me. He's also a better player than Smith.

As I pointed out earlier, we will have plenty of money coming off the books to cover Shatty's buyout cap hit in 2020.

 

[Irishguy42]

Who cares if we have enough money to cover Shattenkirks buyout in 2020.

The order of buying out should be:
1. Staal
2. no one else
3. no one else
...
99. Smith
100. Shattenkirk

 

[LannyMcdonald]

Not on this board, but I think in some places there may be an expectation that we make the playoffs this year.

And frankly, I don't think it's impossible. Though I wouldn't put money on it.

Last Vegas odds I saw had us around 9th in the conference

 

[Calad]

I look at more than just the current season. The final year of the initial contract is always the toughest with a buy out. It usually includes the cap hit of signing bonuses etc. We don't have any big contracts coming off the books in 2020, only in 2021. Buying out Shattenkirk makes no sense to me. He's also a better player than Smith.

I very deliberately went over the details for beyond this season. Like has been stated by myself and other, we are scheduled to free up ~20 million between contracts and girardi's buyout after this season. The extra 650k from Shattenkirk's buyout will be meaningless when that roster space is being filled by one of our many ELC defenders. We will have more young ELC players coming up through the system the following year, and as of now, no one important on the roster is due for a raise after next season. We will have unused extra cap space in the following year, so why not sacrifice some of it to make our options clearing cap this year that much better?

Shattenkirk might be a better player than Smith, but that won't matter if he can't skate anymore after f***ing up his knee.

 

[Calad]

Who cares if we have enough money to cover Shattenkirks buyout in 2020.

The order of buying out should be:
1. Staal
2. no one else
3. no one else
...
99. Smith
100. Shattenkirk

Staal buyout gives us the least cap relief of the three. I'd be down to buyout Staal after this season though, whos gonna be our Tank commander if hes gone this year?

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

I very deliberately went over the details for beyond this season. Like has been stated by myself and other, we are scheduled to free up ~20 million between contracts and girardi's buyout after this season. The extra 650k from Shattenkirk's buyout will be meaningless when that roster space is being filled by one of our many ELC defenders. We will have more young ELC players coming up through the system the following year, and as of now, no one important on the roster is due for a raise after next season. We will have unused extra cap space in the following year, so why not sacrifice some of it to make our options clearing cap this year that much better?

Shattenkirk might be a better player than Smith, but that won't matter if he can't skate anymore after ****ing up his knee.

If you want to buy out shatty then do it next year. No need to have 6m in dead cap space for him plus over 1m from Girardi. Shattys buyout is the worst. Second is Staal. The only 1 I would consider is Smith bc it gives us the savings this year and isnt atrocious the next 4 years.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Who cares if we have enough money to cover Shattenkirks buyout in 2020.

The order of buying out should be:
1. Staal
2. no one else
3. no one else
...
99. Smith
100. Shattenkirk

I get it you hate Staal and dont want him on the team. Let him sit on the bench then and help the young players and be able to rotate in. We aren't a playoff contending team so why have the atrocious cap hit that will follow for 4 more year? If we HAVE to buy someone out its Smith. Staal can wait a year so his dead cap space doesnt hurt us, same with shatty.

Also if you believe we are a playoff team then why would you want to hurt our future cap so much with staals buyout?

 

[Irishguy42]

I'm not saying we HAVE to buy out anyone.

But if you're going to buyout someone, make it Staal first. The benefits of not having him negatively affecting the on-ice product outweighs the dead cap he will create, which will not actually be THAT huge of a hindrance that it's being made out to be.

Smith and Shattenkirk are still serviceable/good and buying them out actually hurts the team's on-ice product.

Staal does nothing well on the ice except exist.

 

[Calad]

If you want to buy out shatty then do it next year. No need to have 6m in dead cap space for him plus over 1m from Girardi. Shattys buyout is the worst. Second is Staal. The only 1 I would consider is Smith bc it gives us the savings this year and isnt atrocious the next 4 years.

I understand 6m is bigger than 3m... But why does the 6m from Shattenkirk next year matter? What are we missing out on, or what might it cost us? And conversely what might we gain with the extra 2m in space this season?

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Your missing three fact that 6m is on the cap for next year. So it only helps us this year, puts us in a similar situation with the cap again next season bc that savings we got this year is gone. And the 3rd and 4th year are still around 2m.

I'd rather not buy anyone out and just trade krieder and names. The biggest asset we would get is cap space.

Smit, shatty and staal can all rotate in the lineup if need be since everyone is penciling in hajek, lindgren, and fox who all have a combined 10 games of NHL experience and have NEVER played an 82 game season.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

I understand 6m is bigger than 3m... But why does the 6m from Shattenkirk next year matter? What are we missing out on, or what might it cost us? And conversely what might we gain with the extra 2m in space this season?

Your missing three fact that 6m is on the cap for next year. So it only helps us this year, puts us in a similar situation with the cap again next season bc that savings we got this year is gone. And the 3rd and 4th year are still around 2m.

I'd rather not buy anyone out and just trade krieder and names. The biggest asset we would get is cap space. The whole point is to free up cap. I personally dont see us competing for anything next season and am ok being in the lottery again to hopefully get a franchise center. I'm not interested in signing krieder to a 7yr 7aav contract especially bc Lee just got that and they aresimilar.

Smit, shatty and staal can all rotate in the lineup if need be since everyone is penciling in hajek, lindgren, and fox who all have a combined 10 games of NHL experience and have NEVER played an 82 game season

 

[Calad]

Your missing three fact that 6m is on the cap for next year. So it only helps us this year, puts us in a similar situation with the cap again next season bc that savings we got this year is gone. And the 3rd and 4th year are still around 2m.

I'd rather not buy anyone out and just trade krieder and names. The biggest asset we would get is cap space.

Smit, shatty and staal can all rotate in the lineup if need be since everyone is penciling in hajek, lindgren, and fox who all have a combined 10 games of NHL experience and have NEVER played an 82 game season

To address your 3 "missing facts"

1.It helps us this year yes, and we need to be cap compliant this year. The extra 2 million we get from Shattenkirk over smith buyout gives us a ton more flexibility with trying to trade away a forward to make space and not get a shit return because teams are leveraging our lack of cap space against us.

2. What extension do we need to give next year that the ~$20 million in relief from expiring contracts won't be enough? Strome and Georgiev are the only RFAs up for an extension next year, and either of them could very likely be gone before then. The UFA market next year is shit, too.

3. 3rd and 4th year for Shattenkirk is 1.43m, not 2m. For comparison, Smith's year 3 and 4 of buyout is 1.15. We're looking at less than 300k difference. Here's the details i posted earlier, for your convenience:

I too would love to just trade our 2 forwards and be done with it, but if that ends up being the case then the return we will get for either of them will pale in comparison to what we could get if we weren't in immediate cap trouble.


Our D is gonna be a train wreck next year any way you slice it. Skjei-Trouba, Staal-Deangelo, Hajek-Shattenkirk/smith(whoever is around). Maybe they sign another cheap vet a la Claesson. Maybe Lindgren or Fox make the team out of camp, but I doubt it. Or maybe some other rookie surprises and makes the team. Who knows.

 

[mas0764]

we aren't over the cap until the 4 RFAs are signed so those would be the most recent contracts.

but correction the league would void the contracts but it doesn't change the players free agency status, I misspoke on that. if they, let say, voided trouba's contract he would still be a RFA but would be unsigned again. of course the scenario will never actually play out...

I was being sarcastic.

 

[mas0764]

You’re missing the five other moves between that one and keeping both Panarin AND Trouba.

Which are those?

 

[mas0764]

As I pointed out earlier, we will have plenty of money coming off the books to cover Shatty's buyout cap hit in 2020.

You’re a year off I think. That money comes off in two offseasons.... 2021.

 

[Calad]

You’re a year off I think. That money comes off in two offseasons.... 2021.

No he meant 2020. We have $20m coming off the books after this season, so the dead cap space from Shattenkirk next year will be irrelevant to us since we won't be near the cap anyways.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

To address your 3 "missing facts"

1.It helps us this year yes, and we need to be cap compliant this year. The extra 2 million we get from Shattenkirk over smith buyout gives us a ton more flexibility with trying to trade away a forward to make space and not get a **** return because teams are leveraging our lack of cap space against us.

2. What extension do we need to give next year that the ~$20 million in relief from expiring contracts won't be enough? Strome and Georgiev are the only RFAs up for an extension next year, and either of them could very likely be gone before then. The UFA market next year is ****, too.

3. 3rd and 4th year for Shattenkirk is 1.43m, not 2m. For comparison, Smith's year 3 and 4 of buyout is 1.15. We're looking at less than 300k difference. Here's the details i posted earlier, for your convenience:

I too would love to just trade our 2 forwards and be done with it, but if that ends up being the case then the return we will get for either of them will pale in comparison to what we could get if we weren't in immediate cap trouble.


Our D is gonna be a train wreck next year any way you slice it. Skjei-Trouba, Staal-Deangelo, Hajek-Shattenkirk/smith(whoever is around). Maybe they sign another cheap vet a la Claesson. Maybe Lindgren or Fox make the team out of camp, but I doubt it. Or maybe some other rookie surprises and makes the team. Who knows.

1. To me although I'd like a great return for krieder... the idea is cap space which to teams means a lot in order for flexibility plus I dont want to flirt with the horrible contract that krieder will get next year. So we get a little less from krieder deal and instead of a 3rd for names we get a 5th. Again point is cap space.

2. The fact is it's around 15 million not 20 and we then have to sign players anyway to contracts to fill our roster. That 15 million will be used up quickly. Especially if we give lemieux and deangelo 1 year qualifying offers. Plus having a good chunk of cap space is a great thing especially to a rebuilding team and if we didnt have cap space we wouldnt have been able to get trouba. Those types of deals aren't possible if we buy someone out.

3. I do get that but shatty I dont believe doesnt have any trade value. At this years deadline or next year some team will take a chance on him to bolster their defense bc of injury or need in the playoffs. Nobody will want Staal or Smith.

 

[GAGLine]

You guys all suck at math lol.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

No he meant 2020. We have $20m coming off the books after this season, so the dead cap space from Shattenkirk next year will be irrelevant to us since we won't be near the cap anyways.

Closer to 12m

 

[Ken Lund]

That’s fine too

I would leave Rykov in the minors to get used to the bigger rink and keep Lindgren with the same idea of spelling Staal and others with the option of sending him down occasionally to get some playing time.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Closer to 12m

And to think how quickly that will dry up having to sign 4 forwards and possibly lemieux and DeAngelo

 

[GAGLine]

And to think how quickly that will dry up having to sign 5 forwards

Which 5 forwards are we signing next year?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Which 5 forwards are we signing next year?

The ones who are replacing Fast, Kreider, Namestnikov, Nieves and Beleskey, I assume

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Which 5 forwards are we signing next year?

Losing krieder, strome, names, and fast.. also lemieux and DeAngelo if we only qualify offer them

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

That's 4 to 6 contracts that need to be given to someone to take their spot with a shatty buyout.. using only 12m. I would say that would put us in the exact same position we are in this year.