Speculation: Roster Building Thread IV (2021 Offseason) - Bob Dylan turns 80 & "The times they are a changing!"

[FIRE DRURY]

Okay this sounds crazy, but for some reason, I feel like stamkos is a target, cap strapped tampa can only get away with cap manipulation for so long and yes, they do have to pay point, who's minimum aav can only be 9 million(based off his last year of salary for the bridge, the aav is the lowest qualifying offer possible). Do I want stamkos? Not really. He's very injury prone. However, with fo's sight set on winning now, he could be the short term piece before his contract gets ugly. I personally dont know how you get from 97 million to 81.5 million without either gutting your depth or selling a high aav player, but this is a deal where you could get him for cheap and settle for a buyout when he becomes too old. I dont know, this offseason can be anything honestly because rangers have around 10 mil to play with. Is it the right move- to get a stanley cup winning center? Is it worth the risk?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

 

[Vitto79]

No, you did not read it correctly.

We are not trading for Jones,
We are trading him at the only remaining position possible, with the plan to move him as soon as his trade value is recognized as sufficiently high --- assuming that is not the case.

If we are keeping the genuine article (Fox) --- and we are;
and
all our other Ds are being kept to increase our physicality;
then where do you propose we play Jones?

People saying no Jones to W under these circumstances
are those who like to eat the sausage,
but don't want to suffer/know how it is made.

If ya smell what the Bern is cooking

you really believe Jones is going to be a winger don’t ya?! He’s the new mini me version of Bfuglien

 

[Ola]

This is magical thinking. Absorbing talent by osmosis. If only it worked liked that lol.

Haha, it’s an incomplete reasoning. Am I the only one who have posts erased by the site refreshing automatically quite regularly?

Anyway, I had to rewrite that post and was in a bit of hurry so I left some out the second time.

My point was actually this, due to the quoted part, Tocchet will respect and give a bit of ‘artistic freedom’ to our bigger stars. Why does that make him a ‘safer option’? A coach that is super strict and micromanage everything can be — great. But that solely depends on if his message is effective and pays off. The best coach during the trapping era can become a disaster by a rule change that kills the trap, if he doesn’t change philosophy, right?

Given his history and very vast and recent experience of successful environments, I can’t imagine that he wouldn’t know how to run a professional operation. Given his background, I also can’t imagine that he would handcuff the talent in the wrong direction so to speak.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So we’re trading for Jones so we can play him in a position he’s never played before, hoping to further increase his trade value?

Did I read that correctly?

Hate to be devil's advocate, but Jones played forward until 3 years ago

 

[jay from jersey]

finding that hard to believe.
per CF:
Robertson: height 6'4" 202 lbs
Jones: 5'11" 175 lbs

old sports adage: usually the good big man defeats the good little man

this is not quite the same b'c other aspects favor Jones, but not toughness and physicality.

Thought you were talking about Seth Jones. I read the post above about the rangers acquiring him. Not Zac. Apologies for the mix up Bern. Robertson is Def more physical then Z Jones. And we are both in agreement that jones is likely a trade chip

however moving Zac to FWD, even though he has played the position in the past isn’t the best idea to try to showcase his skill set to trade him as a defensemen. Thank god I was mixed up. I thought you had lost it for good

 

[jay from jersey]

Hate to be devil's advocate, but Jones played forward until 3 years ago [/QUOTE
Yes this is true. Both Zac Jones and K’Andre Miller are converted forwards who haven’t played defense all that long

Yes this is true. Both Zac Jones and K’Andre Miller are converted forwards who haven’t played defense all that long. I thought Bern was talking about the above post of the Rangers acquiring. Seth Jones and playing him at FWD until we trade some of the young D. I’m happy that I was mistaken. Mia Culpa Bern. Still not a good idea to move Z Jones back to FWD though. Though I do agree with Bern that he is trade bait, that’s why the called him up at the end of the year and played him a lot when the games really didn’t matter. Kind of a similar situation to Pionk but different. They wanted other teams to see Jones puck moving skills

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yes this is true. Both Zac Jones and K’Andre Miller are converted forwards who haven’t played defense all that long. I thought Bern was talking about the above post of the Rangers acquiring. Seth Jones and playing him at FWD until we trade some of the young D. I’m happy that I was mistaken. Mia Culpa Bern. Still not a good idea to move Z Jones back to FWD though. Though I do agree with Bern that he is trade bait, that’s why the called him up at the end of the year and played him a lot when the games really didn’t matter. Kind of a similar situation to Pionk but different. They wanted other teams to see Jones puck moving skills

There's a reason Zac Jones moved to defense, and played defense well enough to be drafted in the 3rd round, win a national championship and be offered an NHL contract. He's better at defense than he was as a forward.

 

[bernmeister]

Hate to be devil's advocate, but Jones played forward until 3 years ago

I didn't know this but happily it reinforces my pt.
thanks for the full disclosure!

 

[bernmeister]

Yes this is true. Both Zac Jones and K’Andre Miller are converted forwards who haven’t played defense all that long. I thought Bern was talking about the above post of the Rangers acquiring. Seth Jones and playing him at FWD until we trade some of the young D. I’m happy that I was mistaken. Mia Culpa Bern. Still not a good idea to move Z Jones back to FWD though. Though I do agree with Bern that he is trade bait, that’s why the called him up at the end of the year and played him a lot when the games really didn’t matter. Kind of a similar situation to Pionk but different. They wanted other teams to see Jones puck moving skills

There's a reason Zac Jones moved to defense, and played defense well enough to be drafted in the 3rd round, win a national championship and be offered an NHL contract. He's better at defense than he was as a forward.

Happy we have him as a D, where length of career he is more valuable as someone at the .backline where teams currently seek for higher quality.
Howev, we must find a place to showcase him.
If no injuries and everybody plays, where can he slot?
Ideally at LW, who would sit? Lindgren? KAM? Robertson?

I would give him max mins as a 3RW.
Advertises his versatility.
And, as I said in my original post, play him reserve D.
I said get Zadorov cheap for extra toughness as needed.
He does not some action to stay sharp.
But we can pinch some of those mins at D for Jones.

 

[bbny]

Zac Jones is not moving to forward.

IMO he either sees time as 3LD, plays in Hartford, or gets traded. The Rangers brought him here ASAP by burning an ELC year to get him signed and away from college, so I doubt the answer is Hartford. I'm not sure if I take the burning of an ELC year as a sign they wanted him here for next year instead of college, or they knew he'd be more valuable if he was under contract already and the next team didn't have to worry about him staying in college and possibly waiting for UFA.

 

[Barnaby]

He won a Selke in 1994 and a cup before and after the Rangers

Basically a great example of the Rangers being the Rangers

He was a good player. No doubt. So is Danault. Skrudland just wasn’t the answer here and if he’s getting 5+ million then Danault is likely not the answer here either.

 

[Vitto79]

Protect 1 in expansion

Blackwell
Gauthier
Rooney
Howden

go !

 

[Barnaby]

Okay this sounds crazy, but for some reason, I feel like stamkos is a target, cap strapped tampa can only get away with cap manipulation for so long and yes, they do have to pay point, who's minimum aav can only be 9 million(based off his last year of salary for the bridge, the aav is the lowest qualifying offer possible). Do I want stamkos? Not really. He's very injury prone. However, with fo's sight set on winning now, he could be the short term piece before his contract gets ugly. I personally dont know how you get from 97 million to 81.5 million without either gutting your depth or selling a high aav player, but this is a deal where you could get him for cheap and settle for a buyout when he becomes too old. I dont know, this offseason can be anything honestly because rangers have around 10 mil to play with. Is it the right move- to get a stanley cup winning center? Is it worth the risk?

It’s crazy alright. With one swoop the Rangers annihilate their cap space and rescue TB all while missing out on Stamkos best years. Add Stamkos injury history and a possible potential buyout down the road and it makes zero sense to me.

 

[broadwayblue]

It’s crazy alright. With one swoop the Rangers annihilate their cap space and rescue TB all while missing out on Stamkos best years. Add Stamkos injury history and a possible potential buyout down the road and it makes zero sense to me.

I know very little about who the organization is targeting, but I can't imagine they are giving any serious consideration to Stamkos unless we are moving VK and or Buch.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Holy shit we gotta move on from this “well we’ll just change their positions!” As a solution to our problems. Our problems are going to be answered at this point via trade/free agency.

 

[RGY]

Jones and Miller are not switching positions. They are defenseman.

Talking about this like it is common is wildly insane. How many players have made a successful switch of positions? Burns and Buff? Tells you all you need to know about this discussion

 

[Vitto79]

What about Henrique at 50 with an asset like Steel for spare parts like Hajek , Howden , Gauthier ?

 

[RGY]

What about Henrique at 50 with an asset like Steel for spare parts like Hajek , Howden , Gauthier ?

Why would Anaheim want spare parts??

 

[Barnaby]

I know very little about who the organization is targeting, but I can't imagine they are giving any serious consideration to Stamkos unless we are moving VK and or Buch.

Not to mention Stamkos took less to stay in TB, has a NMC, and would be agreeing to leave a 1st place team where’s he’s spent his whole career.

 

[Vitto79]

Why would Anaheim want spare parts??

cause they don’t want Henrique

 

[nyrage]

Jones and Miller are not switching positions. They are defenseman.

Talking about this like it is common is wildly insane. How many players have made a successful switch of positions? Burns and Buff? Tells you all you need to know about this discussion

Don't forget our very own Brendan Smith. I remember someone on this board calling him a great power forward when he played forward. Oh yeah, another Cam Neely.

 

[Cag29]

Protect 1 in expansion

Blackwell
Gauthier
Rooney
Howden

go !

Easy one for me. I keep Gauthier.
Size and speed. He was going to the net then Quinn decides to shelf him the rest of the way.

 

[RGY]

cause they don’t want Henrique

Not enough to give away Steel during a rebuild.

 

[SRHRangers]

Im just seeing this Malkin news.

Knee surgery and they already know he won't be ready for camp.

He will be this seasons Kucherov. Pitt will sign Nugent Hopkins and Malkin will reappear for the playoffs for one last run for that core.

I threw up in my mouth thinking about that.

 

[bernmeister]

Zac Jones is not moving to forward.

IMO he either sees time as 3LD, plays in Hartford, or gets traded. The Rangers brought him here ASAP by burning an ELC year to get him signed and away from college, so I doubt the answer is Hartford. I'm not sure if I take the burning of an ELC year as a sign they wanted him here for next year instead of college, or they knew he'd be more valuable if he was under contract already and the next team didn't have to worry about him staying in college and possibly waiting for UFA.

Holy shit we gotta move on from this “well we’ll just change their positions!” As a solution to our problems. Our problems are going to be answered at this point via draft/free agency.

Jones and Miller are not switching positions. They are defenseman.

Talking about this like it is common is wildly insane. How many players have made a successful switch of positions? Burns and Buff? Tells you all you need to know about this discussion

REMINDER
we have surplus, there is way we are keeping Jones since we already have Fox and need size.

The only reason it is suggested to showcase at NHL level w/more mins is to help ensure we get max value in return for Jones.
Trading Jones is easy.
Getting top high quality value in return is problematic now b'c he does not have any record at NHL level.

it is logically connected.
If you want top possible return, you play him.
He can only get so many mins as a reserve D
Hence he also has to fit elsewhere
Only slot there is 3RW.

Once his value is established, and he is dealt, the point is moot.