Speculation: Roster Building Thread IV (2021 Offseason) - Bob Dylan turns 80 & "The times they are a changing!"

[IDvsEGO]

Its not about his skating.. He isnt a center! Can we stop trying to put square pegs into round holes! Our strength is on the wing and on defense. Kravy and Laf are wingers. Lets stop this already. If we are finding centers, its through a trade.

Thank you!
Out of the three kids, Kakko has spent more time playing against men as a Center and yet no one mentions that.
Positions in the NHL at this point are fluid among forwards, how often does mika sit around the net? How often is it kreider we see in front of the net, but we don't hear anyone yelling "make him a center".

Laf absolutely "could" play center, Kakko would be the better fit at center imo, but neither of them wants to, or sees themselves as a center which should really end the conversation.
Also just to point out, Laf's "weakness" is his acceleration, in comparison to someone like mcdavid or mackinnon. He's still a strong skater. He's got a solid top end speed and he's also got really good balance which is actually more important for a center.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I would rather try Chytil in a top 6 center role than mess around with Laf and Kakko's (who already doesn't get enough ice time, better linemates most of the time) development. Ideally they can get another center and their depth can be Mika-?-Chytil or ?-Mika-Chytil

 

[IDvsEGO]

The only players I think should be in the bottom six are Kreider (because Panarin/Laf), Chytil if he's still around and Barron. I dont mind Rooney, Blackwell, Gauthier etc, but the Rangers need to get a different dynamic and get more physical and N/S players. They can accomplish that in the bottom six as it'll be less likely they can do it in the top 6 because of the players they already have there

I truly believe Chytil in the bottom 6 is a mistake. Chytil's numbers look like he would be a solid 2c if you gave him the same time and linemates that Strome got. Chytil is either a major piece in a big trade, or part of the franchise for the long haul. Either way not giving him the chance to run with the top 6 doesn't help anyone.

 

[duhmetreE]

If any of our young kids are going to make that mythical move to center, it'd be Kravtsov

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I truly believe Chytil in the bottom 6 is a mistake. Chytil's numbers look like he would be a solid 2c if you gave him the same time and linemates that Strome got. Chytil is either a major piece in a big trade, or part of the franchise for the long haul. Either way not giving him the chance to run with the top 6 doesn't help anyone.

If they can't find a top six center that is an obvious upgrade then I wouldn't mind seeing what he can do in a top 6 role with Panarin and Kakko/Buchnevich/Kravtsov etc

 

[bernmeister]

Its not about his skating.. He isnt a center! Can we stop trying to put square pegs into round holes! Our strength is on the wing and on defense. Kravy and Laf are wingers. Lets stop this already. If we are finding centers, its through a trade.

no, that needs rejection upon examination.
LaF is truly a W.
Krav has the size, vision, passing and skating needed to pivot/
And he also has experience for that at a high level.

And thanks to the idiot who is Quinn, who famously said Krav is not 4th line material and then buried him there, it behooves us to develop our blue chips before even considering to move them, Jones the lone exception.

Then you're throwing him out there at forward in a bottom 6 role. That's bad for both parties, especially for the Rangers when they want to compete and need the opposite of Zac Jones in a bottom 6 role. You are not considering it has a much greater chance of decreasing his trade value than increasing it.

They will trade Jones or play him at 3LD. They also might wind up trading Miller instead if required to land a player of a high caliber, which would naturally open up more minutes on the left side.

The premise is 3LD not available to make room for Robertson and his size.
If ya wanna argue keep Robertson in the A for max first pair mins, fine, but imo he is better served by 3rd pair mins here.

And as explained unless someone says to us 'ok, I can see Jones is gonna be another Fox and, a small discount for my troubles as to a lack of faith, I'll pay you accordingly', unless that miraculously emerges out of nowhere, we need to play Jones. Only by such developing/showcasing do we create a construct in which his upgraded value commands close to highest potential price.

 

[IDvsEGO]

If they can't find a top six center that is an obvious upgrade then I wouldn't mind seeing what he can do in a top 6 role with Panarin and Kakko/Buchnevich/Kravtsov etc

I think that was alot of the issue most of us had with Quinn last year. Chytil especially early on in the season absolutely had looked like the better player over Strome. But Strome never slid down. Chytil for the first 10 games of the season looked like our best center. Strome started to pick his game up, and then really stepped up offensively even when Panarin went out. Chytil took a while to really recover from the wrist injury but once you could see him healthy, he absolutely shined.
With the big "IF" all our high drafted wingers (laf/kk/VK) take another step forward, we don't really need 2 top 10 centers. Our wingers can do alot of the heavy lifting with puck possession. Our centers need to be able to bury a shot, and at least play decent defensively. Chytil needs to work on his defense slightly, but he has to also be given opportunities as well. Cant tell how he does vs high end centers if he only matches up vs a 3rd line.

 

[bernmeister]

I truly believe Chytil in the bottom 6 is a mistake. Chytil's numbers look like he would be a solid 2c if you gave him the same time and linemates that Strome got. Chytil is either a major piece in a big trade, or part of the franchise for the long haul. Either way not giving him the chance to run with the top 6 doesn't help anyone.

agree on chytil at 2C where he looked great pre-injury
would not do in a big trade, need him to replace Strome + Zib, who we should sell high on esp b'c we can't afford them or buch long term anyway

 

[IDvsEGO]

no, that needs rejection upon examination.
LaF is truly a W.
Krav has the size, vision, passing and skating needed to pivot/
And he also has experience for that at a high level.

And thanks to the idiot who is Quinn, who famously said Krav is not 4th line material and then buried him there, it behooves us to develop our blue chips before even considering to move them, Jones the lone exception.




The premise is 3LD not available to make room for Robertson and his size.
If ya wanna argue keep Robertson in the A for max first pair mins, fine, but imo he is better served by 3rd pair mins here.

And as explained unless someone says to us 'ok, I can see Jones is gonna be another Fox and, a small discount for my troubles as to a lack of faith, I'll pay you accordingly', unless that miraculously emerges out of nowhere, we need to play Jones. Only by such developing/showcasing do we create a construct in which his upgraded value commands close to highest potential price.

I dont disagree with you on saying Kratsov has the tools to be a center, but i think KK with one more step forward in skating is actually a better potential Center. He's got absolutely insane hands and vision, and the size and strength, more importantly he played against men in finland as a center at times which is a more useful evaluation tool than what world juniors/4N and MHL.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I think that was alot of the issue most of us had with Quinn last year. Chytil especially early on in the season absolutely had looked like the better player over Strome. But Strome never slid down. Chytil for the first 10 games of the season looked like our best center. Strome started to pick his game up, and then really stepped up offensively even when Panarin went out. Chytil took a while to really recover from the wrist injury but once you could see him healthy, he absolutely shined.
With the big "IF" all our high drafted wingers (laf/kk/VK) take another step forward, we don't really need 2 top 10 centers. Our wingers can do alot of the heavy lifting with puck possession. Our centers need to be able to bury a shot, and at least play decent defensively. Chytil needs to work on his defense slightly, but he has to also be given opportunities as well. Cant tell how he does vs high end centers if he only matches up vs a 3rd line.

This is a good point, I mean Panarin is obviously the one who does the heavy lifting on his line. I just wish Strome was better defensively and on face offs and then we would have a more than quality 2C because he has put up points the last 2 years.

 

[IDvsEGO]

agree on chytil at 2C where he looked great pre-injury
would not do in a big trade, need him to replace Strome + Zib, who we should sell high on esp b'c we can't afford them or buch long term anyway

I love Chytil. He is no where near replacing mika, and i dont even think at his peak he's an improvement over mika for the next 4 years. Realistic expectations are important here.
Strome should likely be moved, Mika if we can keep the number under 8 x 8 should be re-signed.

Buch is likely gone as well, simply because we need to prepare for a flat cap. Perfect world the cap would rise the next 3 years, and we'd be able to fit everyone and just have 3 lines to scare the crap out of everyone.
Any big trade for a center unfortunately likely includes Chytil. Unless you consider moving KK or Laf, which you absolutely shouldn't. KK to me looks like he's going to top out at around 70-80 pts a year with selke level defense. Laf is prob never going to be that good defensively but give him mika and/or panarin and he looks like hes a 100+ pt player.

Eichel isnt who i'd like but i understand if we end up with him, especially if the ask comes down. If we could acquire eichel, and the biggest pieces we lose are chytil and maybe lundkvist, i consider that a win (so long as eichel actually is healthy).

 

[bernmeister]

I dont disagree with you on saying Kratsov has the tools to be a center, but i think KK with one more step forward in skating is actually a better potential Center. He's got absolutely insane hands and vision, and the size and strength, more importantly he played against men in finland as a center at times which is a more useful evaluation tool than what world juniors/4N and MHL.

You may be right!!!!
But Kravtsov has actual experience at pivot

also, KK's size suggests he could be dominant at control along the boards.

 

[IDvsEGO]

This is a good point, I mean Panarin is obviously the one who does the heavy lifting on his line. I just wish Strome was better defensively and on face offs and then we would have a more than quality 2C because he has put up points the last 2 years.

I'll say that Strome proved he's actually able to generate offense on his own w/o panarin this year. Strome's garbage defensive play/lack of hustle is the big reason that a guy like blackwell/fast does well on those lines.
Give me an above average defensive center on that line, and you could run a more balanced line.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I love Chytil. He is no where near replacing mika, and i dont even think at his peak he's an improvement over mika for the next 4 years. Realistic expectations are important here.
Strome should likely be moved, Mika if we can keep the number under 8 x 8 should be re-signed.

Buch is likely gone as well, simply because we need to prepare for a flat cap. Perfect world the cap would rise the next 3 years, and we'd be able to fit everyone and just have 3 lines to scare the crap out of everyone.
Any big trade for a center unfortunately likely includes Chytil. Unless you consider moving KK or Laf, which you absolutely shouldn't. KK to me looks like he's going to top out at around 70-80 pts a year with selke level defense. Laf is prob never going to be that good defensively but give him mika and/or panarin and he looks like hes a 100+ pt player.

Eichel isnt who i'd like but i understand if we end up with him, especially if the ask comes down. If we could acquire eichel, and the biggest pieces we lose are chytil and maybe lundkvist, i consider that a win (so long as eichel actually is healthy).

I'm hoping with a flat cap maybe guys take less than we think, because there's not alot of cap space around the league (and the Rangers are in great shape with that at the moment)

 

[IDvsEGO]

You may be right!!!!
But Kravtsov has actual experience at pivot

also, KK's size suggests he could be dominant at control along the boards.

Did you just ignore the part where i said Kakko has experience playing with Men in finland at Center, and thats more valuable experience than playing in the world juniors/ four nations/MHL at center?
Kakko's size and hands suggest he's a dominant puck possession monster. That plays well at any position.

 

[bernmeister]

I love Chytil. He is no where near replacing mika, and i dont even think at his peak he's an improvement over mika for the next 4 years. Realistic expectations are important here.
Strome should likely be moved, Mika if we can keep the number under 8 x 8 should be re-signed.

Buch is likely gone as well, simply because we need to prepare for a flat cap. Perfect world the cap would rise the next 3 years, and we'd be able to fit everyone and just have 3 lines to scare the crap out of everyone.
Any big trade for a center unfortunately likely includes Chytil. Unless you consider moving KK or Laf, which you absolutely shouldn't. KK to me looks like he's going to top out at around 70-80 pts a year with selke level defense. Laf is prob never going to be that good defensively but give him mika and/or panarin and he looks like hes a 100+ pt player.

Eichel isnt who i'd like but i understand if we end up with him, especially if the ask comes down. If we could acquire eichel, and the biggest pieces we lose are chytil and maybe lundkvist, i consider that a win (so long as eichel actually is healthy).

we can't afford mika, THAT is reality.
Other factor is age. MZ deal takes him to mid 30s.
want no part of that

want no part of win now foolishness on Eichel
Barkov, IF IF IF he somehow became available, is another story, but not JE

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I'll say that Strome proved he's actually able to generate offense on his own w/o panarin this year. Strome's garbage defensive play/lack of hustle is the big reason that a guy like blackwell/fast does well on those lines.
Give me an above average defensive center on that line, and you could run a more balanced line.

Yeah he did I'm just not sure he can sustain it over a full season, but hey at one point he was a 5th overall pick so who knows, some guys bloom late. He is a .86 PPG player over the last 2 seasons so who knows

 

[bernmeister]

Did you just ignore the part where i said Kakko has experience playing with Men in finland at Center, and thats more valuable experience than playing in the world juniors/ four nations/MHL at center?
Kakko's size and hands suggest he's a dominant puck possession monster. That plays well at any position.

I missed the fine line as to that experience in FIN incl pivot.
my error

Competition is a good thing, let's see. Going by the eye test, my vote is still for Krav at C w/KK and AP

 

[IDvsEGO]

we can't afford mika, THAT is reality.
Other factor is age. MZ deal takes him to mid 30s.
want no part of that

want no part of win now foolishness on Eichel
Barkov, IF IF IF he somehow became available, is another story, but not JE

Mika's skating and skill suggests to me that if we go as far as 35 the deal will be fine. Yes we'll be paying for a 2c at the back end of the deal, but any center that'll help now that's what'll happen.
Barkov is 3 years younger yes but he would immediately require a huge contract, which makes it far harder to ask the homegrown talent to take less in a flat cap scenario. Barkov is going to get a 10m+ contract. He's not taking an 8m deal to play for us. Panarin only left 1m/yr on the table.

 

[Avery16]

 

[bernmeister]

Mika's skating and skill suggests to me that if we go as far as 35 the deal will be fine. Yes we'll be paying for a 2c at the back end of the deal, but any center that'll help now that's what'll happen.
Barkov is 3 years younger yes but he would immediately require a huge contract, which makes it far harder to ask the homegrown talent to take less in a flat cap scenario. Barkov is going to get a 10m+ contract. He's not taking an 8m deal to play for us. Panarin only left 1m/yr on the table.

In general agreement but Zib is not gonna do 3ish yrs.
So assuming you agree on a $#, you then have term discrepancy.

Look beyond 2 yrs down the road.
If we want/have to move Mika, it will cost

hence, deal him as a rental now while value is highest.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

So was Zac Jones

 

[IDvsEGO]

In general agreement but Zib is not gonna do 3ish yrs.
So assuming you agree on a $#, you then have term discrepancy.

Look beyond 2 yrs down the road.
If we want/have to move Mika, it will cost

hence, deal him as a rental now while value is highest.

Im not saying 3 years. Mika will be 30 when he signs a new deal. If we keep it to 5/6 years, it should absolutely be fine. He'll be a 2c potentially at the back end but if the cap does jump it wont be as bad an issue.

 

[bbny]

no, that needs rejection upon examination.
LaF is truly a W.
Krav has the size, vision, passing and skating needed to pivot/
And he also has experience for that at a high level.

And thanks to the idiot who is Quinn, who famously said Krav is not 4th line material and then buried him there, it behooves us to develop our blue chips before even considering to move them, Jones the lone exception.




The premise is 3LD not available to make room for Robertson and his size.
If ya wanna argue keep Robertson in the A for max first pair mins, fine, but imo he is better served by 3rd pair mins here.

And as explained unless someone says to us 'ok, I can see Jones is gonna be another Fox and, a small discount for my troubles as to a lack of faith, I'll pay you accordingly', unless that miraculously emerges out of nowhere, we need to play Jones. Only by such developing/showcasing do we create a construct in which his upgraded value commands close to highest potential price.

Robertson will most likely be in the AHL first. There will be a playoff expectation here next year. I highly doubt they will start 2 of Miller/Robertson/Jones. Ideally, given that mandate, you will have Lindgren/Vet signing or trade/young guy down the left side. None of our young guys are 2LD material yet. Miller played there out of necessity but the truth is he isn't there yet. He needs time. I would be shocked if one of Miller or Jones are not traded this offseason.

By the way, Jones is not anywhere near Fox's level. His college coach making the comparison is incorrect. That's not a knock on Jones, as I thought he looked like a solid player in limited time. It's a testament to how unbelievable Fox looked the second he stepped on the ice in his rookie year.

 

[haveandare]

Blackwell faded at the end of the season. He might turn into another John Mitchell but I honestly wouldn't worry about him at all. Priority #101.

Imo Blackwell is a good fit for a certain kind of team, but it’s the opposite of what we have. We have high paid finesse players and need to round them out with high motor, complete guys who are miserable to play against. Blackwell would be great for a team with high paid complete players that needs some affordable bottom 6 skill guys.