Speculation: Roster Building Thread IV (2021 Offseason) - Bob Dylan turns 80 & "The times they are a changing!"

[Edge]

Everything else? He's an elite forechecker -- not because he stands at the high circle and tries to catch lobs... He spends a lot of time in the corners. And he closes in on the net. He doesn't just float on the perimeter, he constantly tries to push defensive structures inward and collapse them.



Well, like I say, I get what you're saying--we just don't have very similar evaluations of Thomas, Chytil, or roles.

To me, Thomas is not a maybe center, nor is Chytil. They're also not competing for second line center, they're both vying for two top six center positions. One would play with Panarin, is that the 1C? Do they both need to play on the PP? I see Chytil as having much more potential as a penalty killer than as a power play guy. So each could be getting top 6 mins at 5v5 with one playing each side of special teams.

Once again, to me, adding Thomas is also a move made in preparation for trading Zibanejad and Strome. So maybe instead of finding a top six center that will cost a premium, (whether in trade or in cap space--or both), you pay that premium in the bottom six on deals that you can match up with bridges for Thomas and Chytil.

Yes, Thomas will cost a lot. I would think maybe Kravtsov + a D prospect. But what can you get back for Zibanejad? Strome? You can recoup some of those futures.

Of course it's not 'realistic' but for instance what about something like this:

Panarin - Chytil - Buchnevich
Lafreniere - Thomas - Kakko
Kreider - Kadri - Barron
Crouse - Cizikas - Gauthier/Howden

Thomas for Kravtsov
Kadri + futures for Zibanejad
Crouse for Strome
Sign Cizakas at a premium for 3 years, say 3X3.5
Sign Chytil at a low rate for 4 years, say 4X4
Sign Thomas at a bridge for 2 years, 2/3.5

Really not digging the center position there. But that's just me.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Probably much of the same opinion as Chytil/Thomas at center, just shifted to RW.

I think Chytil’s game translates better at wing than Center.

 

[Synergy27]

Isn’t it crazy that we have two PPG centers in the prime of their career and there seems to be consensus that one of them definitely needs to be moved and there is trepidation about locking the other one up long term? I mean, I agree with both of those things, I think, but it’s a pretty unique situation.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

6 year 30 million dollar contract? I would hesitate giving him half that. especially after seeing him play this season and in these playoffs.
Don't get me wrong I like the player and what he does on the defensive side of the ice but for a 3c we can't pay 4/5 million per in this cap era

He’s currently playing on Montreal’s top line. I think he would slot in very well on our second line if there’s chemistry with Panarin.

This team isn’t a black hole offensively. Our scoring will probably go up a bit as our young guns continue developing.

Danault isn’t a third liner. His production and advanced metrics make him a quality top-6 player. Most importantly, one that excels on ES.

 

[Edge]

I think Chytil’s game translates better at wing than Center.

And that's a possibility. But let's assume Buch is traded (distinct possibility), I kind of feel like I want something different in the mix between Kakko and Kravstov --- similar to how I want something different in the mix at center. Middle six veteran, someone who maybe can slide up or down as a guy emerges, more or less knows what he is, things of that nature. That's probably someone who comes back in a potential Buch trade.

I don't know if moving Chytil to the right side, when we already have Kakko and Kravtsov (and for now, Buch) is the direction I'd go.

I feel like that approach has us right back to finding positions for players, rather than finding players for positions and roles.

It feels very....EA Sports-ish for me. Like I'm looking at ratings and just sliding guys over so I can get guys I like into the roster, rather than really getting into how players fit roles, or compliment each other, or what they need to tap into their best games.

 

[Bruner4329]

Everything else? He's an elite forechecker -- not because he stands at the high circle and tries to catch lobs... He spends a lot of time in the corners. And he closes in on the net. He doesn't just float on the perimeter, he constantly tries to push defensive structures inward and collapse them.



Well, like I say, I get what you're saying--we just don't have very similar evaluations of Thomas, Chytil, or roles.

To me, Thomas is not a maybe center, nor is Chytil. They're also not competing for second line center, they're both vying for two top six center positions. One would play with Panarin, is that the 1C? Do they both need to play on the PP? I see Chytil as having much more potential as a penalty killer than as a power play guy. So each could be getting top 6 mins at 5v5 with one playing each side of special teams.

Once again, to me, adding Thomas is also a move made in preparation for trading Zibanejad and Strome. So maybe instead of finding a top six center that will cost a premium, (whether in trade or in cap space--or both), you pay that premium in the bottom six on deals that you can match up with bridges for Thomas and Chytil.

Yes, Thomas will cost a lot. I would think maybe Kravtsov + a D prospect. But what can you get back for Zibanejad? Strome? You can recoup some of those futures.

Of course it's not 'realistic' but for instance what about something like this:

Panarin - Chytil - Buchnevich
Lafreniere - Thomas - Kakko
Kreider - Kadri - Barron
Crouse - Cizikas - Gauthier/Howden

Thomas for Kravtsov
Kadri + futures for Zibanejad
Crouse for Strome
Sign Cizakas at a premium for 3 years, say 3X3.5
Sign Chytil at a low rate for 4 years, say 4X4
Sign Thomas at a bridge for 2 years, 2/3.5

Chytll as a number 1 center? Lets be serious. He is not and his game better translates to being a wing. Moving Barron to the 3rd line may be a reach at this point and I don't like any suggestion that has Howden on this roster.

 

[BBKers]

First - Get an NHL hockey coach
Then - Use the assets (Strome, Buch, Chytil, Goat, Hajek, Georgiev, prospects & picks - Howden to the Octopussies in the expansion draft) and make some trades.

Start the year with:

Laf - Zbad - Kakko
Panarin - Larkin - Kravtsov
Kreider - Lindholm - Barron
Givani Smith - Goodrow - Reaves
Blackwell, Rooney

Get M Ekholm and MacDermid on D as well
A reliable Vet G added as well (with a bit higher ceiling than Kinkaid)

Adjust with more sandpaper/depth role players a bit later...
MAKE NOISE HAPPEN

 

[bl02]

He’s currently playing on Montreal’s top line. I think he would slot in very well on our second line if there’s chemistry with Panarin.

This team isn’t a black hole offensively. Our scoring will probably go up a bit as our young guns continue developing.

Danault isn’t a third liner. His production and advanced metrics make him a quality top-6 player. Most importantly, one that excels on ES.

I see where you are coming from on the second part of your post. Sure a guy like Panarin could help him put some more points.

Montreal really doesn't have a top line. Their strength is rolling 3 decent lines. In the past the Danault/Gallagher/ Tatar line was one of their best. Danault this year has been a shell of himself as well as the other two guys.
The other worry is his compete level has been way down as well.

Not the only one who has said it but Danault is in your top 6 at top 6 money in this cap world it will not bold well to contending for a cup.
If he is willing to take 2.5-3 million sure if not tread carefully having this guy be in your top 6 (making top 6 money) for the next 5 plus years. Yikes.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Chytll as a number 1 center? Lets be serious. He is not and his game better translates to being a wing. Moving Barron to the 3rd line may be a reach at this point and I don't like any suggestion that has Howden on this roster.

Chytil's played how many games as a wing between the AHL and NHL that this has to keep going? He played all year at center, his best year, crushed his minutes there.

Also, the 1C thing isn't something I care about. I don't think of lineups like that unless you have a player that really dictates the label and meshes with your top wingers. Like, is Strome our 1C, because as we had it last season he played with Panarin. Unless you're suggesting Zibanejad is the 1C but Panarin was actually our 2LW. (quickly it stops mattering). I like the potential fit of Chytil and Panarin.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I think Chytil can be a great 2C but asking him to play 1C is asking to be out of the playoffs next season

 

[I Eat Crow]

Gross overpayment on the Rangers. Robertson reminds me of a young McDonagh

I'm a big fan of Robertson's, but given the team's bereftness of center depth, this is a trade I don't hesitate to make.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

First - Get an NHL hockey coach
Then - Use the assets (Strome, Buch, Chytil, Goat, Hajek, Georgiev, prospects & picks - Howden to the Octopussies in the expansion draft) and make some trades.

Start the year with:

Laf - Zbad - Kakko
Panarin - Larkin - Kravtsov
Kreider - Lindholm - Barron
Givani Smith - Goodrow - Reaves
Blackwell, Rooney

Get M Ekholm and MacDermid on D as well
A reliable Vet G added as well (with a bit higher ceiling than Kinkaid)

Adjust with more sandpaper/depth role players a bit later...
MAKE NOISE HAPPEN

I don’’t need details on how the sausage is made I just like your sausage

 

[leetch99]

The team does not even have a coach. They have no idea if he will be playing C or W.

They likely won't be doing much up front with the forwards other than adding one tough guy and on the back end adding /subtracting a 5th and 6th Dman or moving Miller down and then having a long look at some training camp guys to see what we actually have in the pipeline and possibly how far away they are from being Rangers .


They have Cap/contract stuff that needs to figured out first like extending Buch/Fox/Chytil/Strome and ditto on Zibs . That has to happen for longer term planning keeping in mind that ELC's are coming due . Plus they will also likely want to see how a new coach does with the forwards with a bit of sandpaper inserted .

Now...if Dolan is yelling from the rooftops for CHANGE that means all assumptions go out the door and almost anything is possible .

 

[eco's bones]

hits aren't the only way to play physical or with effort.

So explain. How do you battle without banging bodies?

The Rangers already have lots of guys who take more than they give. The games against the isles and caps at the tail end of the season were very telling of where our team is at in the physical play department. Far behind the better teams.

As for Thomas his production numbers last year were bad, he’s a 43% face-off guy, doesn’t kill penalties, doesn’t hit and doesn’t shoot enough. We need another 43% face-off guy like we need a hole in the head. Kevin Rooney outproduced him offensively, is better at draws and kills penalties and takes the body and no one looks at him as more than a 4th line guy. Thomas has not proven he’s a top 6 guy. Why are we chasing chimeras?

And there are those who would trade Buch straight up for Thomas? Sure you get a younger player but that’s about all you get.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

They likely won't be doing much up front with the forwards other than adding one tough guy and on the back end adding /subtracting a 5th and 6th Dman or moving Miller down and then having a long look at some training camp guys to see what we actually have in the pipeline and possibly how far away they are from being Rangers .


They have Cap/contract stuff that needs to figured out first like extending Buch/Fox/Chytil/Strome and ditto on Zibs . That has to happen for longer term planning keeping in mind that ELC's are coming due . Plus they will also likely want to see how a new coach does with the forwards with a bit of sandpaper inserted .

Now...if Dolan is yelling from the rooftops for CHANGE that means all assumptions go out the door and almost anything is possible .

You're going to see more movement than that.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

So explain. How do you battle without banging bodies?

The Rangers already have lots of guys who take more than they give. The games against the isles and caps at the tail end of the season were very telling of where our team is at in the physical play department. Far behind the better teams.

As for Thomas his production numbers last year were bad, he’s a 43% face-off guy, doesn’t kill penalties, doesn’t hit and doesn’t shoot enough. We need another 43% face-off guy like we need a hole in the head. Kevin Rooney outproduced him offensively, is better at draws and kills penalties and takes the body and no one looks at him as more than a 4th line guy. Thomas has not proven he’s a top 6 guy. Why are we chasing chimeras?

And there are those who would trade Buch straight up for Thomas? Sure you get a younger player but that’s about all you get.

Agreed. If we are moving buch its most likely for an established top 6 center that can do it all and hopefully strome traded in another deal that brings in some toughness.

The only deal im looking at the blues for is ROR or to steal Dunn away from them.

 

[Bruner4329]

Chytil's played how many games as a wing between the AHL and NHL that this has to keep going? He played all year at center, his best year, crushed his minutes there.

Also, the 1C thing isn't something I care about. I don't think of lineups like that unless you have a player that really dictates the label and meshes with your top wingers. Like, is Strome our 1C, because as we had it last season he played with Panarin. Unless you're suggesting Zibanejad is the 1C but Panarin was actually our 2LW. (quickly it stops mattering). I like the potential fit of Chytil and Panarin.

Crushed his minutes there? Really. I don't think management feels that way. Also no coincidence that LaF starting playing better when he got away from FC. Finally you think a shoot first guy like Chytll is a fit with a goal scorer like Panarin? All that means is less chances for Panarin which is not a good thing.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I'd say explore the cost to obtain ROR and Ekholm. Sign some combo of Goodrow, Nosek, Reaves, Bonino or Coleman. Trade Strome to recoup some of what was dealt for ROR and Ekholm.

Adds vet leadership in the positions the Rangers needs most, adds toughness and skill.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Crushed his minutes there? Really. I don't think management feels that way. Also no coincidence that LaF starting playing better when he got away from FC. Finally you think a shoot first guy like Chytll is a fit with a goal scorer like Panarin? All that means is less chances for Panarin which is not a good thing.

Well what can I say, today was my day for crazy proposals lol.

I think you're right in how management sees Chytil. I also disagree with you both.

Also we're really miles apart on Panarin apparently lol. Im not sure if you meant Ovechkin when writing that description

 

[FIRE DRURY]

So explain. How do you battle without banging bodies?

The Rangers already have lots of guys who take more than they give. The games against the isles and caps at the tail end of the season were very telling of where our team is at in the physical play department. Far behind the better teams.

As for Thomas his production numbers last year were bad, he’s a 43% face-off guy, doesn’t kill penalties, doesn’t hit and doesn’t shoot enough. We need another 43% face-off guy like we need a hole in the head. Kevin Rooney outproduced him offensively, is better at draws and kills penalties and takes the body and no one looks at him as more than a 4th line guy. Thomas has not proven he’s a top 6 guy. Why are we chasing chimeras?

And there are those who would trade Buch straight up for Thomas? Sure you get a younger player but that’s about all you get.

We were also missing Kreider, Trouba and Lindgren those series. We didn’t lose those games just due to lack of physicality. We were just a younger, inexperienced team with a shitty head coach playing without two veteran leaders and our best LHD.

This past season was wild. Lots of players struggled. Thomas had a broken thumb and then hurt his shoulder.

Kevin Rooney has 33p in 149 career games played. Thomas put up 33p his rookie season, lol. He followed that up by scoring 42p in 66 games his sophomore year. Rooney is a plug. Thomas is an actual player.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

UK beat Belarus in the Worlds, haha. I envision a forced MIG escorted landing for that team charter flight.

 

[Edge]

I'd say explore the cost to obtain ROR and Ekholm. Sign some combo of Goodrow, Nosek, Reaves, Bonino or Coleman. Trade Strome to recoup some of what was dealt for ROR and Ekholm.

Adds vet leadership in the positions the Rangers needs most, adds toughness and skill.

ROR would be a damn good fit for this squad - depending on availability and, of course, cost.

 

[McRanger92]

Elias Lindholm is a guy i would be perfectly fine overpaying for. He reminds me of Strome offensively but with more willingness to battle in the corners and a better PKer. I believe Edge has mentioned in the past that the Rangers have been very interested. Hopefully thats the prevailing opinion now that Drury has taken over, especially with the Flames seemingly ready to make changes.

 

[McRanger92]

ROR would be a damn good fit for this squad - depending on availability and, of course, cost.

O'Reilly is another guy that fits the Rangers needs perfectly. I don't see a reason why STL moves him now, outside of a full teardown

 

[bobbop]

If Thomas didn’t take a step backwards last year, he would never be in the conversation. I have my doubts about how available he really is but after watching him in the 2019 playoffs and last season I thought he was an emerging star. A real nice north south player with some bite.

I’m less concerned where he fits in long term and more interested in if we can steal an upside candidate for a reasonable price. I’m content to let the other stuff work itself out.