Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2022-23): The Puck is Prepared to be Mounted

[RangersFan1994]

I was under the impression that he played RW as well. Can serve a Goodrow-like role up and down the lineup while being a much better player. Agree cap probably doesn't work barring another unexpected move.

Why? We are already set at center, and we don't have the cap space to make a futures deal for him.

Bennett plays all 3 forward positions. Brings some nasty to this soft group. Finesse teams don’t go far in the playoffs without the skilled grit and toughness to balance it out with the Tkachuk, Bennett, Domi types

 

[mas0764]

You know what this team really, really needs?

What Laf and Kakko were projected to be. We need those guys.

Yeah if they were each PPG wingers making impacts every game, I would be thinking this team could win a Cup.

 

[Fitzy]

Yes, yes, yes.

And move Kreider and Trouba when feasible to add to that young core.

Zibanejad and Panarin can stay as the grizzled vets.

I think of the core four older guys, Zibby may be here the longest. He plays the most important position of the group.

Even at 34-35 I have to imagine he's still our 2nd line center at worst.

One interesting conversation that we haven't had much time for is how long Trocheck stays. He's done everything we asked him to do, but I can't see him still here as a 35 year old personally.

 

[Dijock94]

Yes, yes, yes.

And move Kreider and Trouba when feasible to add to that young core.

Zibanejad and Panarin can stay as the grizzled vets.

Agreed.

Ship out Goodrow this summer to sign Chytil and Miller to long extensions.

Then unload Kreider - Trouba - Trocheck when they move to limited NTC. By then we should have more and more youth to backfill and Chytil Laf Kakko Kravtsov will all be in their primes.

 

[mas0764]

I think of the core four older guys, Zibby may be here the longest. He plays the most important position of the group.

Even at 34-35 I have to imagine he's still our 2nd line center at worst.

One interesting conversation that we haven't had much time for is how long Trocheck stays. He's done everything we asked him to do, but I can't see him still here as a 35 year old personally.

Well, no one listens to me or they have me on ignore, but I don't think Trocheck is reaching year 7 here, no way, and I've said that many times.

Just like I don't think Goodrow is nearing the end of his deal or Trouba is nearing the end of his.

It will be LTIR or trade or buy out or something.

Trocheck was a win now move. The team wanted better than Strome but didn't believe Chytil was an upgrade yet. Instead of investing in Chytil so we can win in 3-5 years, they want to win in the next 2 before Shesterkin's contract is up, so they had to overpay for the right now in terms of... well, term. And in doing so, they got someone who is just kind of a run of the mill second liner instead of a true star.

Trocheck, IMO, is gone just as soon as reality closes the window for this core, which won't be all that long, really, since Kakko and Laf have failed to develop into stars. The team has bought into winning now, and they are paying win now prices on contracts for Trouba, Goodrow, Kreider and Trocheck when none of these guys have any value to us beyond like the next 2-3 seasons at most.

Trocheck has a 7 year contract! He's not seeing that here.

 

[RangerBoy]

Literally every trade deadline Keith Tkachuk was linked to the Rangers. The deal that never happened!

Summer of 1995. Tkachuk was a restricted free agent. The Rangers were supposed to get him. Tkachuk signed an offer sheet with Chicago. Winnipeg matched. In 2000, Sather had a trade worked out with Arizona for Tkachuk and Khabibulin for Richter, Brendl, Lundmark and one more player. There was another time before Tkachuk moved from Arizona to St.Louis where the Rangers were linked to him.

 

[irishlaxburger2]

Yeah if they were each PPG wingers making impacts every game, I would be thinking this team could win a Cup.

What has our management/coaching done to facilitate their growth into PPG players?

Across their entire careers, they've spent the majority of their 5v5 time in the bottom 6 and have gotten zero PP1 time.

You can't just expect these kids to turn into PPG players without giving them the runway to do so.

Am I blaming our coaches for that? No, because they've been tasked with winning now with a roster of proven veterans in the lineup over Kakko and Laf. But you also can't have it both ways. Growth doesn't just come with time. It comes with opportunity. And yes, that opportunity should come even if they don't "deserve it" or haven't "earned it". That's if your priority is to develop them.

 

[mas0764]

What has our management/coaching done to facilitate their growth into PPG players?

Across their entire careers, they've spent the majority of their 5v5 time in the bottom 6 and have gotten zero PP1 time.

You can't just expect these kids to turn into PPG players without giving them the runway to do so.

Am I blaming our coaches for that? No, because they've been tasked with winning now with a roster of proven veterans in the lineup over Kakko and Laf. But you also can't have it both ways. Growth doesn't just come with time. It comes with opportunity.

Yeah I know. The team has a big role in this blunder.

They have proven definitively it's not just the players themselves. They cannot develop offensive talent. Something is wrong and it needs to be fixed on their own level too.

 

[Machinehead]

Just trading everyone until Laf has to produce in his 25 minutes a game is a bold strategy.

 

[irishlaxburger2]

Yeah I know. The team has a big role in this blunder.

They have proven definitively it's not just the players themselves. They cannot develop offensive talent. Something is wrong and it needs to be fixed on their own level too.

There may be some actual skill coaching/development issues in the organization, but I largely think it has to do with priorities. Priority #1 for this org is always make the playoffs. So all of the decisions made are with that in mind.

That immediately comes into conflict with what should be the priority - developing the kids.

When you have high priced vets in your top 6, it's very easy to stuff your youngsters into bottom six roles with no legitimate PP1 time. But then you can't be surprised when those players don't develop into offensive phenoms.

Chytil has taken ages to develop and still isn't a consistent offensive threat. Why? Because he's never been asked to be that. He's been treated like a 3C forever, which is what he's developing into.

Kakko has taken awhile to develop and has seemingly figured everything out but offensive production. Why hasn't he figured out offensive production? Because he's rarely been put into a position where we've needed/asked him to take on that role.

I think this organization and fanbase just expect things to happen organically. They rarely do. You need to be super intentional about how these kids develop. And our MO has simply been "here are the sparing minutes we're willing to give you. Hopefully you figure it out". For the most part, it doesn't work like that.

Just trading everyone until Laf has to produce in his 25 minutes a game is a bold strategy.

Nobody is asking for that. I'm asking for a philosophical change to how we handle vets vs. youngsters.

We have historically not been hard on our vets and have only held our youngsters accountable. That needs to be flipped. We need to coddle our youngsters and hold our vets accountable.

When Artemi Panarin is coasting, he deserves to be benched - even on PP1. When Jacob Trouba is hampered by injury and turning the puck over constantly, he needs to be sat. Maybe not in the playoffs, but in December? Absolutely. And if we can't still make the playoffs with our roster and that mentality, we have bigger issues anyway.

 

[Daves a mess]

Great. Don't want Chief J Swollen Knee.

 

[Fitzy]

Even in the worst case scenario where Mas is right and the team needs to rebuild again, Miller and Fox should stay. That's a defensive pairing you can build a team around. Those guys are probably going to be playing top hockey for another decade at least. Schneider is young and for my money has been better than the metrics crowd gives him credit for.

As for Shesty, that's gonna depend. If we find that .916 hockey is in fact his normal, that makes him more replaceable.

But that's all a ways off. I haven't given up on this group making a playoff run- I just think Drury will need to be shrewd with the rentals to make that work.

Could NYR get a late 1st round pick for Zac Jones? He doesn't quite have Lundkvist's resume. Was there ever a plan for Matt Robertson? Some of these guys are getting closer to the time where they need to make the lineup or be moved.

 

[Machinehead]

Nobody is asking for that. I'm asking for a philosophical change to how we handle vets vs. youngsters.

We have historically not been hard on our vets and have only held our youngsters accountable. That needs to be flipped. We need to coddle our youngsters and hold our vets accountable.

When Artemi Panarin is coasting, he deserves to be benched - even on PP1. When Jacob Trouba is hampered by injury and turning the puck over constantly, he needs to be sat. Maybe not in the playoffs, but in December? Absolutely. And if we can't still make the playoffs with our roster and that mentality, we have bigger issues anyway.

It's obvious that we need a philosophical change to how we handle young players but it isn't as simple as throwing them out there more. They're not capable of eating that much time because they're not good enough right now.

Trading other guys that we have no replacement for is only going to cast the spotlight on the young players even more and that seems counterproductive to me.

This team would be absolutely dire without Kreider and he's underpaid for what he brings. I don't get why he's always a target. Same with Zibanejad. Find me another 88 point two-way center making $8m.

Panarin, sure. He could stand to sit on the bench when he's having one of those games and he never does.

 

[Daves a mess]

McDonagh never had sand paper here.

Miraculously, he became gritty on Tampa.

Mindset needs to change. It's hard to be angry if you're walking into a Country Club.

Been watching the Bruins closely the last 20 or so games. Core players play like they are annoyed to be stopped. Team despises losing, doesn't play down to lesser teams, refuses to be outworked, and backs each other up 1000%.

Zib, Bread, and Kreider are NO Bergeron, Marchand and Pasternak.

 

[surlysailor]

Have seen a few pieces from Seravalli (not sure how reliable he is these days) saying essentially the below on the Panthers:



Bennett is a guy the NYR should be in on if he is available.

2023 Trade Deadline Countdown: Eastern Conference Objectives

Less than two months from the deadline, which East teams are trending toward buyer, seller or something in between?

www.dailyfaceoff.com

I think the only way nyr can get Bennett is a swap for chytil(which I’m not advocating). Chytil has more upside but his contract next season might be close to bennets. The only other way nyr can afford it is if fl agrees to take goodrow back and nyr add prospects/picks which I don’t really see fl wanting to do. I’d think fl would want lindgren cause their d is a mess but that would just be robbing Peter to pay Paul and our ld would only poop without another trade

 

[Fitzy]

Been watching the Bruins closely the last 20 or so games. Core players play like they are annoyed to be stopped. Team despises losing, doesn't play down to lesser teams, refuses to be outworked, and backs each other up 1000%.

Zib, Bread, and Kreider are NO Bergeron, Marchand and Pasternak.

This years Bruins team is on pace for the best regular season of all time so that's gonna be a high bar to clear.

Credit to them recognizing the skill that Ullmark always had, incidentally.

 

[Machinehead]

The Bruins got superstars to sign with them for a fraction of market value.

I absolutely support it because f*** the cap, but I have to wonder how realistic that is for other teams in different situations.

I'm very surprised the NHLPA didn't intervene on Krejci getting $1m.

 

[bobbop]

The price is basically three first round picks. No salary retention.

That’s the unnegotiated price. Last year the price was four pieces. Or so it was said.

 

[RangersFan1994]

 

[pld459666]

Literally every trade deadline Keith Tkachuk was linked to the Rangers. The deal that never happened!

Unfortunately for us it never happened

I would love a Keith Tkachuk type player today.

 

[bobbop]

Summer of 1995. Tkachuk was a restricted free agent. The Rangers were supposed to get him. Tkachuk signed an offer sheet with Chicago. Winnipeg matched. In 2000, Sather had a trade worked out with Arizona for Tkachuk and Khabibulin for Richter, Brendl, Lundmark and one more player. There was another time before Tkachuk moved from Arizona to St.Louis where the Rangers were linked to him.

The closest the Rangers came to getting Tkachuk was March of 2001. The dealbreaker was when Theo Fleury entered the NHL substance abuse program. Gretzky tried to get his buddy Fleury to come to Arizona. Mike York and Travis Green were both in the trade. Gretzky was caught completely off guard when Fleury entered the NHL program.

 

[Leonardo87]

Just trading everyone until Laf has to produce in his 25 minutes a game is a bold strategy.

That’s a bold strategy, Cotton. Let’s see if it pays off for him.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Agreed.

Ship out Goodrow this summer to sign Chytil and Miller to long extensions.

Then unload Kreider - Trouba - Trocheck when they move to limited NTC. By then we should have more and more youth to backfill and Chytil Laf Kakko Kravtsov will all be in their primes.

And you're left with a lottery team.

Also, for the people thinking Otthman is gonna come in here next season, hit the ground running, and be everything Kakko and Laff aren't, I'd hit the brakes real, real, real hard on that.

 

[Dijock94]

And you're left with a lottery team.

Also, for the people thinking Otthman is gonna come in here next season, hit the ground running, and be everything Kakko and Laff aren't, I'd hit the brakes real, real, real hard on that.

# 1 I never said Othmann would take off but he does have a better 200 foot game then both of them and is almost the same age as them now.

#2 trading away Goodrow this summer to keep our core is not going to make us a lottery team.

Either way getting rid of some of these aged in their 30s expensive contracts is what it’s going to take to keep guys like Chytil Laf Kakko and so on

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Just trading everyone until Laf has to produce in his 25 minutes a game is a bold strategy.

Kreider has scored 82!! goals since the start of last season and people can't wait to ship him off. It's comical.

# 1 I never said Othmann would take off but he does have a better 200 foot game then both of them and is almost the same age as them now.

#2 trading away Goodrow this summer to keep our core is not going to make us a lottery team.

Either way getting rid of some of these aged in their 30s expensive contracts is what it’s going to take to keep guys like Chytil Laf Kakko and so on

Outside of Buch and maybe Fast, I've yet to see this team not keep a player they wanted because of the cap.