Speculation: Roster Building Thread I (2019/2020) - A Day in the Life

[Vitto79]

If the season goes as many here think, some fun hockey to watch but in the end, not enough quality defense sinks the ship. Another partial sale at the deadline might be enough get through next season with more Hartford guys being promoted up to the big club..

This years tight next year like 12 plus million come dd w Kreider , Names , Strome , Fast

The issue next year is signing cheap depth guys like TO did if kids can’t jump in

The next year Hank , Smith , Staal are out and that’s like 17 million off the books

It’s gonna take 2 yrs anyway to develop the youth

 

[DutchShamrock]

I wouldn't exactly use Miller/Namestnikov as the example for this point

Why not? It illustrates the dichotomy. They were both RFA, traded for each other and both put on the trade block again.

Namestnikov is overpaid and he’s redundant to some degree to a team that is rebuilding and also carries Strome and Fast. However, Namestnikov here is not to bring a depth to bottom 6 - that is what a contending team might need. To us he’s an insurance policy if our kids are not ready for a top6 role next year, and Namestnikov can do a half (pretty) decent job there for a stretch of time. Given how the situation is likely to unfold he’s here for no more than another season.

When you hurt your cap so much you buyout players who could have sheltered youth as well, you can't afford insurance policies. It's not a Namestnikov issue, it's a cap issue. I'm surprised people are defending his spot on the team so strongly when we have cap issues and a GM actively shopping him. No one wants him here except the people defending every Gorton decision. He is a good role player on a team that can afford his bloated cap.

 

[Ola]

I think there's something to this though I don't think it's nearly as bad as with Etem.....but I'd agree Namestnikov with the puck ****s up a lot. Where I think there's a big difference between him and Etem is Etem was lost on the ice whether he had the puck or not. Namestnikov without or away from the puck is a pretty decent player. The puck is kind of his ball and chain.

Yeah, and Etem had skating issues. He had problems keeping speed up when turning on the ice. I think Namestnikov's skill-set is more or less flawless.

And just to be clear, when you criticize someone's "hockey sense" or whatever, it always sounds a lot more serious than if you criticize someone's skating for example. I don't mean to imply that Namestnikov have the bottom 3% IQ among the population. Like you can be a very very good hockey player, but not play in the NHL because you just is a tad slow. These guys can be hero's in Europe, play amazing games at a high level, you see them in the WCH's looking great against the best, but when they try the NHL they just fall a little short. They don't have to be meatballs, total shrimps, very weak physically or whatever. Most hockey players that play hockey for a living can't skate well enough for the NHL. Its not about being bad, its about not being good enough. Just like that, a hockey player can be spotless, but just fall a little short in processing the extremely fast NHL game fast enough if you get what I mean.

I noticed how hard it is to communicate about this when Kreider was young. If you commented on his hockey sense -- which I thought needed a lot of work when he came out of college -- you could get responses like "I don't think he is a dumb player, he sounds bright in interviews". Like the top 98-99%s make it, not the top 93-94%s.

 

[Calad]

This years tight next year like 12 plus million come dd w Kreider , Names , Strome , Fast

The issue next year is signing cheap depth guys like TO did if kids can’t jump in

The next year Hank , Smith , Staal are out and that’s like 17 million off the books

It’s gonna take 2 yrs anyway to develop the youth

Staal Smith hank is about 18m in cap relief, then another 4.6m from the Shattenkirk buyout gives us around 22.5m

 

[Vitto79]

so I get keeping Kreider but isnt it dangerous if the teams in the convo for the 8th spot?

I don't want an own rental when they should go out and get another 1st plus young kid

 

[NernieBichols]

I don't have a problem with adding Panarin and Trouba. Nor paying them.

What I have an issue is with how they manage their assets.

No early extensions, meaning signing a guy they value a year before that their contracts are up to lock down their future spend allocation, and get him on the cheaper.

And bridging all of their ELCs except for Skjei & McDonagh.

This has forced them to make transactions and overpay guys.

If you keep doing something that is causing you to make mistakes... repeatedly....

Sometimes you have to stop and ask yourself hmmm maybe I shouldn't keep doing that.

So I hope that guys like Kakko, Miller, Kravstov and co get term out of their deals.

I agree with you. Wholeheartedly.

Bridge deals was Sather’s way of maximizing cap space during those seasons. Shortsighted but I’m sure that was the philosophy. I’m sure it was his Edmonton philosophy. Prolong and stretch out how many years I can get of a guy before I have to pay him that big contract.

However 25 years later, it’s not smart longterm. You end up paying more for your core guys later on, and the extra money you have and the fact that by pushing the back the big payday, that extra money you have, you spend it on UFAs and then unless they are the right guys, you’ve compounded everything. Having to re-up your core guys when they are older and at more money, and not having that money available anymore bc you tied it up in UFAs using the money you robbed Peter (core players) to pay Paul (UFAs) with

I’ve never been a bridge fan. I thought the rangers should have locked up: Stepan, Dubinsky, and Callahan to 7 year deals real early.

But the guys it really hurt us on big time big time. Was girardi and staal. If you can actually pinpoint one(two) decisions that caused this whole cap mess to develop. It was the fact that they were heading into UFA, right in the middle of the Rangers wheelhouse to contend, and trading them both would have meant none of the playoff runs in 13-14, 14-15. So the rangers were forced to sign them to market deals to even keep the team and window alive.

But had they both been signed long term early, they would have been under contract for their years and going UFA in the summer of 2016-2017 and not with deals extending into their mid 30s and the 2020s

 

[nyr2k2]

Another thing about bridge deals, it's not something unique to us. For many years, that was the thing GMs did. I know we always want to be at the forefront of new ways of thinking and doing business, but sometimes we have to be the guys who follow the new trend. The new trend is to lock guys up when you can. I mean if you Google "NHL bridge deals" it's literally article after article from the past few years about why GMs need to move away from the bridge. It's not unique to us and I'm sure we will adjust. Unfortunately, as has been discussed, some past deals are still making it difficult to do things the way we want. All in all Gorton has done a good job, IMO, and while he's not flawless, I fully expect him to get with the program in the next year or so.

 

[NernieBichols]

Staal was signed for 5 years after his ELC. Girardi for 4 years. Lundquist had a 1 year bridge and then was signed for 6 years.

Good info.

But 7 year deals for both guys I think would have taken them through that 14-15 season.

And if you signed hank a year earlier. This would be his last season on the books.

But I totally forgot the exact contracts girardi and staal had before heading into their UFA to be year

 

[LORDE]

I don't have a problem with adding Panarin and Trouba. Nor paying them.

What I have an issue is with how they manage their assets.

No early extensions, meaning signing a guy they value a year before that their contracts are up to lock down their future spend allocation, and get him on the cheaper.

And bridging all of their ELCs except for Skjei & McDonagh.

This has forced them to make transactions and overpay guys.

If you keep doing something that is causing you to make mistakes... repeatedly....

Sometimes you have to stop and ask yourself hmmm maybe I shouldn't keep doing that.

So I hope that guys like Kakko, Miller, Kravstov and co get term out of their deals.

Wholly agree here except to say that to be fair, the NYR haven’t had anyone like Kakko, Kravtsov or Miller (tbd on all) on this team. Nobody we bridged or didn’t really had the pedigree of the 3 u named.

Zbad? Okay maybe... and we gave him the contract that we all tout as being fantastic. So maybe this team isn’t great at ID those they wanna keep long term. Also, u could argue who the f*** did they have that warranted long contracts? Hayes? Del Z? They gave Zucc a great contract. It is what it is.

If that trio u mentioned really shows who/what they are I hope along with u that we lock them in early.

 

[True Blue]

Honestly though creating and maintaining a revolving pipeline of prospects to nhl ready players is the key to staying out of cap trouble going forward once summer 2021 comes

Agreed. That is how you maintain team viability in the future. This is where you need a good critical eye to be able to spot the players and get them signed. Yes, there will be chances that you are taking as they may not be able to rise to a certain level. But locking in players to manageable contracts early on is important. Then keep the pipline stocked and you always have currency to move assets around as necessary.

 

[Raspewtin]

The Rangers like to give nice deals to questionable players and they are too doubtful of strong talent, if I had to make a totally baseless assumption about why they give contracts the way they do.

Hayes should not have been bridged because even if he stagnated he was still worth the deal he'd have gotten in dollars, and barring an outrageous decline would have had suitors if we wanted to move on.

Stepan was handled well. Kreider maybe could've gotten a few more years but was handled well. McDonagh and Zibanejad were grand slams.

Skjei's contract is awful. Not because he's bad but he makes a lot of money for how little he does. You could find a slightly worse Skjei for half the value, or less. The Rangers really like overpaying tweeners that "leave you wanting more" while they continually have doubts about clear talent.

Again, idk what conversations are going on behind closed doors and these are negotiations, but from what I can tell a great first step would be to stop giving big checks to mediocre players.

 

[RangerBoy]

 

[RangerBoy]

Tampa was the logical spot for him.

Shattenkirk should have accepted the 7 year/$42M contract from TB in the sign and trade in the winter of 2016-17.

 

[17futurecap]

Great opportunity to get a multi year deal after racking up points with their superstars, smart move for Shatty.

 

[RangerBoy]

I would have gone back to Colorado. That team has a chance to be special. TB has failed so many times and they are still so soft.

 

[OthmannOut]

Ah yes, more fuel for the Rangers South meme.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Why not? It illustrates the dichotomy. They were both RFA, traded for each other and both put on the trade block again.

They were only traded for each other in the sense that they were part of the same larger deal. And if you’re implying they were a 1 for 1 swap, that’s not how it works and that’s not how it happened.

As for the players themselves, Namestnikov wouldn’t have more interest if he had a longer term deal or if he was even getting paid less, he’s the exact type of player teams don’t trade for in the offseason because they’d rather give a kid on an ELC a shot at that roster spot or sign a UFA for like a million or less. While Miller was always more valuable than Namestnikov, regardless of the length and price of his contract, because he scored points, he doesn’t do anything else, but there’s always teams that need scoring, and he’s fairly consistent at doing so

 

[Mike in Houston]

I guess the Rangers really couldn't get anyone to take Shattenkirk even with 50% retained.

 

[RangerBoy]

 

[Irishguy42]

Shattenkirk gonna have a rebound year, but not because he'll be playing with amazing players on Tampa.

 

[nyr2k2]

I guess the Rangers really couldn't get anyone to take Shattenkirk even with 50% retained.

Well, the buyout "solved" the cap crunch in a single move. Trading Shattenkirk at 50% for crap doesn't solve the problem, even if we found a way to take no salary back. So it's possible there was a deal to be made, but the Rangers figured it would be better for this year and only mildly worse for next year to simply exercise a buyout.

That said, I don't think there was a deal. I know we all have a tendency to believe our guy at 50% can be moved, but he probably can't. Whether it's Shattenkirk, Staal, Girardi, etc. Seems like a lot of teams are tight against the cap, and don't particularly have any desire to shop in the 50% off aisle for mediocre/crappy players.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

lmao, this is a joke, is it?! The Tampa Bay Rangers are actually a real thing.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Tampa loves our sloppy seconds.

Good luck to Shatty though.

 

[NernieBichols]

None of this has been surprising.
The confusion with the buyout window was fun
But this was all predictable.

Best move for the rangers
Best move for shattenkirk.
Onward and upward

 

[NernieBichols]

Now girardi Boyle sign with us and it’s been a perfect offseason.

Yes I mean it.

Don’t even bother flaming me for it. It’s not gonna change my mind

There was something unquie about the culture of the 2010-2015 rangers. They played a certain way consistently because of a mindset and belief in way to compete and why you compete that made them better than the sum of their parts. And made careers for a lot of them. It was an x-factor that somehow needs to be ingrained and rubbed off on by the new blood or else they will be just another NHL team. There was something special about the way they grouped believed and competed and why they were able to win all of the those seven games series and 2 3-1 series comebacks.

Boyle and girardi along with staal and hank still here can bring that into the locker room during a very formative time of this next eras development. They don’t need to be alpha dogs on the ice bc we’ve got young bucks in Mika/panarin and trouba/skjei who should be able to shoulder a lot of that.

It’s a perfect situation for us and depending what’s out there term wise for them, perfect for them. Full circle.