Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20 Part XXV

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Between him and Howden for 3C. Close call.

Yeah. Oh man, remember Islander fans saying Stepan would be a 4C at best on their team a few years ago?

 

[darko]

Yeah. Oh man, remember Islander fans saying Stepan would be a 4C at best on their team a few years ago?

Yup lol. Good times.

 

[SA16]

Stepan wouldn't have even made those Islander teams. They already had the best 4th line in hockey.

 

[Leetch3]

I don't understand why people think Toronto is going to trade Nylander.

I don't think they will and certainly not for what we are offering...if they are getting back a top 4 or maybe even top pair dman it might make sense

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I don't understand why people think Toronto is going to trade Nylander.

Not saying he'd get traded to us, but I don't think it's crazy to see that Toronto has major holes on the backend and need to fix that somehow. Again, not saying we have their answers, but he's clearly 4th guy on the totem pole after Matthews, Marner, and Tavares. They can afford to trade Nylander to fix their problems.

Honestly, they should have traded him last year. When the Blues were in the dumpster they were making everyone available - they probably could have traded Nylander for Pietrangelo at that point.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I wouldn't trade ADA straight up for Nylander

I'll drive him to the airport, we desperately need top 6 players, especially a guy who can be a center or wing. While I love DeAngelo we can survive on d without him as we have Trouba and Fox already and a pipe line of guys who can jump into the 3rd slot on the right side. Having said that, Toronto isnt trading Nylander.

 

[NernieBichols]

Bet my pants Toronto trades nylander by training camp 20-21

You got Matthews, marner, and Tavares. And all their complimentary guys got great stat lines.

Nylander is the guy who will fill 2-3 lineup spots with his return and if they go with ELCs, guys on 2nd contracts, and prospects it will also free the money to take a run at pietrangelgo this summer

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I can absolutely see the Rangers being willing to trade both Buch and Georgie. And I can absolutely see other teams being interested in acquiring them.

But given that the Rangers almost certainly want at least one young NHLer in return, and given that both would be longer-term building blocks for the acquiring team, both feel like offseason moves to me. As an example, I can totally see a deal around Georgiev and Kapanen; I just don't see Toronto messing with their top-9 mix while in the midst of a PO run. Never say never of course, but acquiring teams are generally looking to bolster their existing squads, not reshuffle them.

So, while I see Kreider and Fast as almost 100% gone as pure rentals both as pending UFAs and as guys who can easily slide onto virtually any line, as I say, I think Buch and Georgie are much less likely to go.

I put Skjei in a similar boat – though the one caveat with him is that he is the one player that a team might be willing to give an "A" asset to acquire, given his profile and contract, and if that's the case, it changes the game.

Even Strome, to me, feels like more of an offseason move if they move him, because a) with every game he continues to hover at ~PPG his price goes up and b) he feels like more of a mix-alterer than Kreider or Fast.

Interestingly, in a way, if ADA has actually been discussed, I think he could be more likely to move in-season than Buch/Georgie/Skjei/Strome, not because of any pending organizational pressure from guys like Lundkvist or Keane (that's still 1-2 years away, if it happens); rather, because he's the one player who would represent a "shock to the system" type move for an org with a GM that feels like he needs to do something dramatic to get his squad on a new course going into the POs.

 

[RGY]

Buch to Edmonton. They need forward help/depth, especially on the wings.

Ideally you get Nurse back in the deal. You have to add to Buch. I dont think EDM would want to trade a defenseman because they arent exactly deep there either, but you have to give to get and it depends on what they value more. We would have to add to Buch probably to make it happen. Not sure how much of an add. I know people are down on Buch here but I think he absolutely holds value around the league.

Dealing Buch for a defenseman allows you to deal Skjei now or in the offseason for a forward.

 

[kinger8998]

Buch has one more year after this on his contract at $3.25 mil. He'll be an RFA again but one year away from being UFA. If we hang on to him and unless next year he takes that step I would not go very much over $4 mil and I wouldn't give him more than 4 years. A 45 point 2nd line is a good player but also kind of an average 2nd liner. So if we're hanging on to him and signing him again that's what I'd be looking at.

But I also think the shine has come off of him to a degree in all this waiting for him to take that next step and I don't think it's just the fans I think the Rangers brass are kind of looking at him that way too. 'Good player but he is what he is'. To me if he helps you get a younger player (such as Greenway) who has potential to put up the same kind of offense or somewhere thereabouts and brings other elements and is cheaper then it's an idea to consider. I don't think Minnesota would do that but that's an example.

I don't see Buch ever becoming a legit 1st line player and that makes him very tradeable in my eyes if the right deal comes along. Our untouchable forwards are Panarin, Zibanejad and Kakko and after them come Chytil (who IMO has Zibanejad upside) and Lemieux (who is an identity player). Every other forward I don't really have a big issue with moving.

This contract evaluation is exactly what I've been saying for weeks now, love this. 45-point 2nd liners are fine, if they're paid like that. Not sure I see a forward 1-year away from UFA (after this current contract) signing for a reasonable price, especially after being bridged.

You're right, he won't be that first liner, or produce like one - unless he's with a legitimate superstar like Crosby or Malkin or McDavid.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I’m more intrigued by what I think a guy like Buch could return if he is dealt at this deadline. Again, teams just entering their windows may prefer a RFA to be in Buch to Kreider. Teams like Boston and St Louis probably prefer Kreider.

I know many here are down on Buch but he’s been a pretty consistent 40-45 point winger and his 2-way play has improved. For the most part he’s a net positive with anyone he plays with and I’d bet a team like Edmonton would LOVE to have him to help balance out some of their scoring moving forward.

I'd rather keep Buch and give him a year or 2 to rebound, he is only gonna be 25 in April. he has a confidence issue which can be improved I ho[e as he matures. always been a fan of his and worried once traded he turns into a 60 point consistent winger. i still have hopes for that

 

[RangersFan1994]

Buch to Edmonton. They need forward help/depth, especially on the wings.

Ideally you get Nurse back in the deal. You have to add to Buch. I dont think EDM would want to trade a defenseman because they arent exactly deep there either, but you have to give to get and it depends on what they value more. We would have to add to Buch probably to make it happen. Not sure how much of an add. I know people are down on Buch here but I think he absolutely holds value around the league.

Dealing Buch for a defenseman allows you to deal Skjei now or in the offseason for a forward.

Buch and Skjei for Hopkins and Nurse?

 

[RGY]

Buch and Skjei for Hopkins and Nurse?

Do not see EDM moving multiple pieces from there playoff contending squad. They arent deep at center either. Sheahan is getting 3rd line minutes.

 

[QJL]

Then I am missing the debate. If only one Cup team has 3 50+ point forwards, how can you agree that a 50 point player is not a top liner? Look up the numbers. They speak for themselves. We can debate where on the spectrum of top liners Kreider is, but there is absolutely no debate that he IS a top liner.

If one graduates from Harvard, but not in the top-10, does one not still graduate from Harvard?

You misread. All but one cup team in the past decade had at least 3 forwards over 50 points. A majority had 4+ forwards at this mark.

Last season 24/31 teams had at least 3 forwards at 50+ points. 12/31 teams had 4 forwards hit that mark. That’s just total points. I’m not taking into account injuries and ppg.

45-50 points is not top line production.

Our argument was about Buch, not Kreider.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Do not see EDM moving multiple pieces from there playoff contending squad. They arent deep at center either. Sheahan is getting 3rd line minutes.

hmm I thought he was getting 4th line minutes and PK time. oh alright

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

What is being added to Buch to get Nurse though?

 

[RGY]

What is being added to Buch to get Nurse though?

I dont know. Not sure what it would take to get it done. Robertson? He is playing in the WHL. Having a decent season. He is probably 2-3 years away from cracking Edmonton lineup, although I could see them rushing him.

 

[True Blue]

You misread. All but one cup team in the past decade had at least 3 forwards over 50 points. A majority had 4+ forwards at this mark.

Last season 24/31 teams had at least 3 forwards at 50+ points. 12/31 teams had 4 forwards hit that mark. That’s just total points. I’m not taking into account injuries and ppg.

45-50 points is not top line production.

Our argument was about Buch, not Kreider.

That does not change the fact that 50 point players are top liners. Look at the numbers. The amount of LW, RW & C and then look at how many points they scored. Sure there are some teams that have 50 point players on the second line. And there are some teams that don't. That does not change the fact that 50 point players are in fact top liners in today's NHL.

 

[JimmyG89]

Edmonton would be making moves to make them better, not worse. Nurse and Nuge are better than Skjei and Buch.

Teams don't line up anymore, unless Edmonton is willing to move their 1st. Right now, I'm not sure they do that due to the volatility of their division and that in two weeks they could easily be in 1st or in 5th.

 

[RGY]

Just gona throw this out there...similar to what i had posted yesterday but with the Buch trade...

Buchnevich + Robertson for Nurse

Georgiev + ‘21 2nd for Kapanen

Kreider + Fast + 3rd for ‘20 1st, Frederic, Studnicka, Conditional 3rd that becomes a ‘21 1st unprotected if Boston reached SCF

Rest of the season you roll these lines, which could be pretty competitive:

Kakko-Zibanejad-Kapanen
Panarin-Chytil-Strome
Lemieux-Studnicka-Frederic
Howden-Mckegg-Smith

Nurse-Trouba
Skjei-DeAngelo
Lindgren-Fox
Staal

 

[True Blue]

Interestingly, in a way, if ADA has actually been discussed, I think he could be more likely to move in-season than Buch/Georgie/Skjei/Strome, not because of any pending organizational pressure from guys like Lundkvist or Keane (that's still 1-2 years away, if it happens); rather, because he's the one player who would represent a "shock to the system" type move for an org with a GM that feels like he needs to do something dramatic to get his squad on a new course going into the POs.

I just cannot see Gorton trading DeAngelo. He targeted him. Quinn raised his gameplay. The kid is trending to an area where not that many names have gone in the past 10 years. And he is doing it as a 23 year old,which narrows the field even more. It is FAR easier to find him a suitable partner then to find another one of him.

 

[Kaapo Bustfreniere]

Who's asking for a trade first, McDavid or Eichel?

Why not both?
McDavid, Eichel, Zibanejad, Chytil. That is some center depth.

 

[Tawnos]

You misread. All but one cup team in the past decade had at least 3 forwards over 50 points. A majority had 4+ forwards at this mark.

Last season 24/31 teams had at least 3 forwards at 50+ points. 12/31 teams had 4 forwards hit that mark. That’s just total points. I’m not taking into account injuries and ppg.

45-50 points is not top line production.

Our argument was about Buch, not Kreider.

Looking at forwards is a really strange way to do this. LWs tend to be lower scoring in the NHL than RWs. If you look at the Cup teams in the last decade, only Patrick Sharp, Milan Lucic, and Ovechkin finished a season top 3 in team scoring as a LW. Were they the only 3 first line LWs to win Cups?

Since entering the league, Kreider has the 27th most points and 18th most goals among LWs. If you look only at the last 5 seasons, including this one, those numbers are 21st and 14th. For players with 200+ games played in the last 5 years, he's 20th in P/60 and 17th in G/60.

He's clearly been in the top 31 among LWers.

 

[QJL]

That does not change the fact that 50 point players are top liners. Look at the numbers. The amount of LW, RW & C and then look at how many points they scored. Sure there are some teams that have 50 point players on the second line. And there are some teams that don't. That does not change the fact that 50 point players are in fact top liners in today's NHL.

I’m sorry, but the math doesn’t add up for your argument.

Last season 99 forwards posted 50+ points. There are only 93 top line forward spots in the league.

That list doesn’t include the following forwards who played at that pace but suffered injuries and missed time: Arvidsson, Getzlaf, JVR, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Shaw, Backlund, JT Miller, Hischier, Perron, BTkachuk, Stastny, Rakell, Pacioretty, Zucc, Hall, Trochek, Bratt, Schmaltz.

45-50 points is what to expect from a mid-tier 2nd line forward in today’s NHL. That level of production projects to finish in the 120-150 range among NHL forwards.

That’s the math.

 

[Kaapo Bustfreniere]

I thought it was pretty common for Europeans to have the Rangers as their favorite NHL team growing up. I remember seeing that somewhere.

As for, CZE, I don't think Rangers are THAT popular here. It used to be like this when Jagr was playing for NYR. And the obvious reason why I became a fan.

Other than that, I don't see the Rangers to be clearly dominant here in terms of followers. I might be wrong though.