Speculation: Roster Building Frenzy Part XX

[GoAwayPanarin]

Seguin is way more of a question mark than Hertl. Seguin looks completely finished to me, injuries have taken their toll.

I was talking about the 2nd list of Hertl, Couturier, Larkin, Cirelli and Barkov. Seguin is signed for another 5 years and I don't think the Stars are really looking to move him.

 

[Synergy27]

Again im not arguing that the cost to acquire Eichel vs Zibanejad is a better deal than just keeping Zib. I hear you there. But straight up Eichel is for sure a better player than Zib, not close

 

[mas0764]

We should have just traded Kreider and then used the assets from his deal to get Lundell

 

[jay from jersey]

Seguin is way more of a question mark than Hertl. Seguin looks completely finished to me, injuries have taken their toll.

Yea a lot of miles on him for sure. That’s why Zibby at 30 plus on a multi-year high dollar deal scares the shit outta me

 

[NYSPORTS]

We should have just traded Kreider and then used the assets from his deal to get Lundell

lol, make it stop

 

[jay from jersey]

View attachment 459419

No he sucks, a stiff breeze and he’s done for the season

 

[Boris Zubov]

I was talking about the 2nd list of Hertl, Couturier, Larkin, Cirelli and Barkov. Seguin is signed for another 5 years and I don't think the Stars are really looking to move him.

Good, they can keep him.

I get your point about Hertl in regards to the other names on that list.

 

[Synergy27]

No he sucks, a stiff breeze and he’s done for the season

Huh?

 

[jay from jersey]

It would have the team shopping for ONE center. They would still have Chytil, Barron, Rooney, and would need to sign/trade for a good young 2C or a fading older 1C that might still have a couple good seasons in them. I mentioned Malkin as an example among a wide array of options (including Zibanejad if his ask came down). You and bleedblue94 keep mischaracterizing everything I say (me saying "Kuch was the driving force for TB's win" suddenly becomes "You think TB would have won without Point and Cirelli?"--which is also interesting, as Cirelli is EXACTLY the kind of 2nd line center I'm advocating for).

The bottom line is that you label everything you don't like as "ridiculous" or "impossible" solely because it isn't the exact thing you want to happen. I would LOVE for the Cap to go away and see the Rangers add a couple of 1C's to go with their group of top wingers and elite young defense. It isn't going to happen. The cap isn't going away. That means what's left are non-ideal solutions. Bargain shopping in the center aisle. Or, buying big in the center aisle and slashing the rest of the roster to make the money work.

You're getting all pissy with me because I favor keeping the rebuild intact. But your alternative is to pretend that you can keep all or even most of the current young roster while ALSO spending big. You can't have both. Well, you can for one year. Do you expect this team to win the Cup next year?

You can’t just go bargain hunting for a 1C. They don’t grow on trees. You certainly don’t let one walk when playoffs and beyond is the goal with no contingency plan. It’s not exactly a buyers market for that type of talent.
Ya know what you win.... ur right
Chytil Barron and Rooney plus whoever we can get in the offseason..... the cup is ours

 

[NYSPORTS]

It's all that and that we have Mika, Strome and Chytil already. He has a higher ceiling but how much better is he actually making us?

I'd honestly prefer Mika @ 5 years 10M and the kept assets

Stay patient is how i play this.

 

[jay from jersey]

Huh?

I’m messing with him

 

[smoneil]

So you think tb wins without point and Cirelli? Come on that's just a ridiculous assertion.

So you invent something I didn't say and then call me ridiculous for saying it? For f***'s sake with you two. Also, note your addition of Cirelli? The EXACT kind of center I've been lobbying for? Funny that, eh?

Your flip the script comment just shows you have no example of a team winning with not significant top center on the roster.

No, it doesn't. As I've pointed out--and you've ignored--several times, the NY Rangers made several deep runs with a roster built on strong goaltending, depth on defense, and multiple 2nd-line quality scoring lines. That roster won a President's trophy. That roster went to 3 ECFs. That roster went to the SCF. This roster is deeper among the forwards. It is deeper on defense. It also has an excellent goaltender. And Chytil and a FA signing or trade have the capability of being better than Stepan. In other words, those teams came very close, and this team has the talent to blow them out of the water.

As for the team I would much rather invest into a top center and sacrifice a winger. I don't know how Jones even makes it into your post, he is complete trade fodder. The point you are trying to make is the exact reason that I don't see any of our young players getting long term contracts coming out of elc. I've had this argument with many people on here who claim we would sign chytil and others for long term deals instead of bringing them.

Full stop. It's not investing in a top center and sacrificing A winger (unless you plan on trading Panarin). You'll be sacrificing some combination of wingers and defensemen that add up to 5 to 15 million dollars (depending on if you plan to keep either or both of Zib/Eichel, and assuming that Strome and Chytil are already gone). And that will only buy you about two years until you have to do it again. It's not about "oh, we'll just bridge the kids." It's "we won't have money to even bridge all the kids." By the time Trouba and Kreider can be moved, we will have lost a good majority of all but the VERY top young players (ie: Fox, Laf, maybe another young defenseman).

If you listen to people around the league the way ufa just happened w the ridiculous contracts it signaled to a lot of people that while the cap will be flat for now, the teams seem to be expecting it to jump substantially once it starts moving again in 3 or so years. That's an even bigger reason to expect bridge deals that are built the way the werenski and tkachuk bridge deals were where they required massive QO at the end to ensure they would get their paydays. This is a big part of why I don't even expect fox to sign long term bc if he bridges he stands to make more money long term as well.

I wouldn't try to predict the future based on how spendy NHL GMs can be. Their spending almost killed the league in the early 2000s. They knew it, but they kept spending anyway. They, like people on this board, just can't help themselves. Instant gratification always trumps long-term planning. The decision on the flat cap won't be made by the GMs. It will be made by the owners. And you can bet your ass that the owners won't come off the flat cap until they get every dime back that they lost last year. If anything, the Delta and Delta+ variant makes it possible that we see MORE lockdowns and revenue loss.

 

[jay from jersey]

It's true.

I think Management is aiming more for a two line scoring group now. The issue with that great Rangers team was that there wasn't a clear cut 'go to' line or killer powerplay group. It was just three well balanced '2nd lines' as we used to say and an elite checking 4th line.

This time around, I think the target is for two '1st lines' followed by two elite checking lines. At least that's what the trade of Buch and the acquisition of Goodrow signals to me.

That’s how it should be. The pens from that Era are the model imo. Your top 6 is your elite talent. The horses you count on to score. 3rd and 4th are rough and tumble and relentless on the forecheck
Our bottom 6 will be more size but less speed then the HBK line

 

[Barnaby]

Anyone watch much of Sammy Blais? What is his realistic upside? I'm just looking at last years numbers - didn't watch much of STL last year.

Looking at his prorated numbers he'd be trending towards a Blake Coleman caliber player. Is that realistic or not? Honestly, if the guy can bring a physical game and be in that 15-20 for 35 category then he becomes a really nice asset.

 

[smoneil]

For 2 days you’ve been ranting and raving like a psychotic to try and devalue Eichel every which way possible by only bringing up negative shit about his surgery, events from history, that he’s so fragile the next hit is gona end his career, and on and on. The fact of the matter is either the rangers are resigning Zibby long term (likely) or trading for eichel( maybe). No way drury lets both out of his grasp with the way the teams currently constructed. So take a Xanax and relax tiny tim

If I've been "ranting" then all three of us have been. That doesn't change the fact that you tried to frame your opinion as the essence of what Drury "wants." You keep reaching and stretching and ignoring any factual information that doesn't result in you getting the new toy that you so desperately want. What you call "devaluing Eichel" I call "being realistic." I'm sure you would prefer it if, like you, I ignored the injury and ignored the cap implications and ignored the fact that--even when healthy--he hasn't produced up to his outsized reputation. Taking note of those things isn't "devaluing." It's "considering the whole picture." It's what people do before deciding on something that could have that huge an impact. And it's something I very much hope Drury is doing. And yeah, you continue to ignore the salary cap. But go ahead and call me more names. That will surely show everyone who the "raving psychotic" in this discussion has been.

 

[smoneil]

You can’t just go bargain hunting for a 1C. They don’t grow on trees. You certainly don’t let one walk when playoffs and beyond is the goal with no contingency plan. It’s not exactly a buyers market for that type of talent.
Ya know what you win.... ur right
Chytil Barron and Rooney plus whoever we can get in the offseason..... the cup is ours

Salary cap. You can have stacked depth through the roster and the defense, or you can have your stacked top two lines with nothing else behind it. Stop pretending you can have both. I've already shown you the damned math.

 

[BleedinBLUEsince92]

We should have just traded Kreider and then used the assets from his deal to get Lundell

One thing that never changes about hfboards is the board's fascination with a few certain players/prospects when they've never had any relation/tie to us. Lundell and Barkov continuously get brought up when there's such a low % chance either of them is coming here and literally no one credible is saying they're available. Reminds me of Honka from Dallas a few years back, and yea he's doing great

 

[tomobson]

I see ppl saying here that Zib wouldn't wave his NMC which makes sense if Drury is trying to trade to him to a shit team. If Zib won't wave his NMC to a real contender at the trade deadline then that says all I need to know about Zib. To me that's somebody that doesn't care about winning and not someone I want to pay 1C money to. It's not as if Zib has won the cup before...he should be hungry for it.

 

[Fitzy]

I see ppl saying here that Zib wouldn't wave his NMC which makes sense if Drury is trying to trade to him to a shit team. If Zib won't wave his NMC to a real contender at the trade deadline then that says all I need to know about Zib. To me that's somebody that doesn't care about winning and not someone I want to pay 1C money to. It's not as if Zib has won the cup before...he should be hungry for it.

Dude... what

 

[LokiDog]

Anyone watch much of Sammy Blais? What is his realistic upside? I'm just looking at last years numbers - didn't watch much of STL last year.

Looking at his prorated numbers he'd be trending towards a Blake Coleman caliber player. Is that realistic or not? Honestly, if the guy can bring a physical game and be in that 15-20 for 35 category then he becomes a really nice asset.

Coleman is sort of realistic. Blais isn’t as good of a skater, which IMO is a big factor in today’s NHL, but he does have good hands, is actually an adequate playmaker, and can really shoot the puck. He’s a tough customer. To me, he’s the kind of guy who has 3rd liner upside, 4th liner floor (for sure, he’s already grade A there) and the potential to be a compliment to a scoring line if it’s something like Panarin/Strome/Blais. Never a top six talent on his own merit, but capable of being the wrecking ball who can finish on a pure skill line.

 

[Barnaby]

Coleman is sort of realistic. Blais isn’t as good of a skater, which IMO is a big factor in today’s NHL, but he does have good hands, is actually an adequate playmaker, and can really shoot the puck. He’s a tough customer. To me, he’s the kind of guy who has 3rd liner upside, 4th liner floor (for sure, he’s already grade A there) and the potential to be a compliment to a scoring line if it’s something like Panarin/Strome/Blais. Never a top six talent on his own merit, but capable of being the wrecking ball who can finish on a pure skill line.

If that's true - still don't love the Buch return, but that's not awful either. That's a valuable piece. We'll see how it pays off. Honestly his numbers last year (not too far off .5 points per game) aren't bad. When looking what the Goodrows and Colemans have been getting in UFA it isn't the worst thing in the world.

 

[Alluckks]

Coleman is sort of realistic. Blais isn’t as good of a skater, which IMO is a big factor in today’s NHL, but he does have good hands, is actually an adequate playmaker, and can really shoot the puck. He’s a tough customer. To me, he’s the kind of guy who has 3rd liner upside, 4th liner floor (for sure, he’s already grade A there) and the potential to be a compliment to a scoring line if it’s something like Panarin/Strome/Blais. Never a top six talent on his own merit, but capable of being the wrecking ball who can finish on a pure skill line.

He has played on Tarasenko's line at times and was capable of finishing plays that Tarasenko set up well enough

 

[tomobson]

Dude... what

Maybe I was too harsh. I just see some ppl saying Zibby will use his NMC to block trades. I just don't see why Zibby would be completely unwilling to be traded to a contender at the deadline. Yea he has an NMC to make sure he's not moved somewhere he doesn't desire to be, but to a contender for a few months...why not? Especially if this team unfortunately struggles this next season.

 

[gravey9]

He has played on Tarasenko's line at times and was capable of finishing plays that Tarasenko set up well enough

My sense is, he could develop into a Blake Coleman type maybe. The thing that makes him different is that he really hits hard and has made some borderline hits in his time. Which isn't always a bad quality in today's game. The big thing with him is that his game is not yet rounded out. Coleman is absolutely a more complete player. Blais has a bunch of work to do to become that dependable player whose on the ice at the end of games, in his own zone. He doesn't PK. If he takes another step in his development he could become more of a poor man's Adam Graves.

In fact, I would like to see Graves work with him.

He could be the next Blake Coleman or he could end up being a less skilled, slower Chris Kreider who only contributes in certain ways. I would prefer the Blake Coleman type, but if Blais can become a stand in front of the net on the PP guy that could be a real big plus. Esp if Kreider ever ends up moving on.

 

[bleedblue94]

So you invent something I didn't say and then call me ridiculous for saying it? For f***'s sake with you two. Also, note your addition of Cirelli? The EXACT kind of center I've been lobbying for? Funny that, eh?

You can't laud kucherov and suggest tb won bc of their strength on wings as an example of how we should proceed while simultaneously ignoring that point and Cirelli were on the team, that's just laughable.

As is lobbying for a Cirelli type to be the primary center here (if we don't have a top center going forward like youre advocating for) and dismiss that he did infact play behind point. As you say "funny that, eh?"

That's sheer stupidity and you literally contradicting yourself.

A team stacked with wing depth just won again bc they had a 1c and a 2c. Not two 2c's. You blow your own argument and example up.

And again I ask you what was the last team to win that was build through the wings without a top center. You keep avoiding this...