Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
We have 18 roster spots being used. Buffalo, Detroit and NJ have 11, 12 and 16 filled. So, context is important.
Ron Francis
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We have 18 roster spots being used. Buffalo, Detroit and NJ have 11, 12 and 16 filled. So, context is important.
The Marquis
Moderator
Until today, CBJ and NJ were the only clubs with reasonable space per open spot besides Seattle. CBJ’s was better I believe, but now Seattle and NJ look to have a lot of the bargaining power.
Buffalo and Detroit are in full tank mode. They can literally sign guys off the street for the league minimum and still have more cap space than Seattle. My point is if cap space is so important and Seattle is going to fully leverage it. They have 2 other teams who they have to compete with and general managers who are more competent than Francis.
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
Yes. And Seattle does not have the intention to do so.
If they are going full tank there would be no reason for players like Hamilton, Landeskog, Schwartz, etc. to sign there.
SwedishFire
Registered User
- Mar 3, 2011
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At Tuesday I really hated some moves. One thing is that he cant pick some players because there is Nother even more i truging player in the same team. Like Apleton and DeMelo. So I give him that.
Then there sure are some side deals going on, that we dont know, but Im actually quire sure not that many.
And what I latet figuded out, is that Francis really vLue and evaluate the cap. He knows that you build a dynasty by not making misstakes, like picking up uneccesaey oe dead cap. So when there wojld be two interresting players in a team, he seems to go with the player with low cap, most valie by the money.
Except with McCann, Eberle, Giordano and Gourde. You must have some good players to carru leadership and bring some talent.
But a pick I dont get is rejecting Bean. And latet Bwan was traded away by Carolina.
That must mean , either somwrhing is really up with Bean, lr there ks a tvree way trade going on. Well see Wednesday.
And after taking a look, the team now just lacks one powercenrer signing (read Schwartz), and it acgually quire good.
Good players, good charachters like Giordano, Larsson, Tanev, Gourde, Apleton, pests like Bastian, And some guys that can be powerplay effective like Eberle and Järnkrok.
There is a group. No star Bove everybody else player, and thats a good concwpt. I like what Feancis is doing. Kwep away from bad contracts and eushed decisions,and wvwrything will soet out itself.
Its just that needed good 2 way center/forwatd signing.
Schwartz 6 x 7m$ . Go for it. One of
Saad or Landeskog at some years is also great. Then they are set
SwedishFire
Registered User
- Mar 3, 2011
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A lot of plYers with just to much term and dlllars that will weigth down your team for a long time, cast a shadow over the team. Domi anz Tarasenko I think is not as good value as you think, esp. When you could get a good D as Dunn with 6m$ less cap instead - much more value. The only one I think of now in perspective is Fyan DonTo in Sharks and JVR. JVR could sureöy be trDed or score somw in Seattle in a rop 6 and PP role. But if traded Francis have to retain. I think he absolutley dont want to pay for others player. Retain is probably a No-Go.
SwedeKraken
Registered User
Tjena Svensken,
Landeskog would be the coolest thing. His leadership would also make this young team instantly better. Also, as a swede, there is no such thing as too many swedes on your favourite team.
Landeskog would be the coolest thing. His leadership would also make this young team instantly better. Also, as a swede, there is no such thing as too many swedes on your favourite team.
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
This is exactly my thinking .. though I get the feeling that Schwartz won't make over 6M. I really did like the idea of Saad and Schwartz since both are solid defensive forwards and seem to fit with Franis' vision of the team. I am going to throw some numbers here.
In (21.5)->
Schwartz 5 x 6M
Saad 5 x 6M
Hamilton 7 x 9.5M
Approx roster:
Saad-Gourde-Eberle
McCann-Schwartz-Appleton
Tanev-Jarnkrok-Donskoi
Geekie-Bastion-Blackwell
True
Gio-Hamilton
Soucy-Larsson
Oleksiak-Lauzon/Fleury
Fleury/Lauzon
Driedger
Vanecek
Still leaves us with over 9M in cap space. That roster is not super top heavy BUT it has legit top-6 players who are more defensively minded than focused on pure offense. That D has to be top-10 in the league.
jbron
Registered User
Schwartz is a great guy and great teammate. Problem is he can't stay healthy and is so streaky. He for sure can't play center as well.
He needs talent around him to contribute offensively. Rumor had him possibly being selected by the Kraken for a contract but that didn't happen. But, the Kraken have interest. Don't know if Schwartz would go to an expansion team. Saad most likely will be overpaid.
It's a tough situation as the Kraken need O and there aren't the best options via free agency. Hence, this is why accumulating assets for trading whether draft picks, cap space, or players selected via expansion is so important. Everyone new O would be an issue for the Seattle Kraken
and most knew an adequate D could be assembled. Now we all wait to see Ron's Roster.
He needs talent around him to contribute offensively. Rumor had him possibly being selected by the Kraken for a contract but that didn't happen. But, the Kraken have interest. Don't know if Schwartz would go to an expansion team. Saad most likely will be overpaid.
It's a tough situation as the Kraken need O and there aren't the best options via free agency. Hence, this is why accumulating assets for trading whether draft picks, cap space, or players selected via expansion is so important. Everyone new O would be an issue for the Seattle Kraken
and most knew an adequate D could be assembled. Now we all wait to see Ron's Roster.
Vegas got spoiled. A true build takes 4 to 5 years. Francis may have the advantage next year as the cap falls and he isn't loaded on overpriced talent. We pretty much need to tank if the NHL draft next year is strong.
ItsFineImFine
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- Aug 11, 2019
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Vegas also made moves and went and got 12 draft picks in the first draft. Francis failed to gain a single one for 2021 lol.
Again GMs woke up after Vegas. Soon Fleury will be old and they still don't have elite stars. We are a different build in a new NHL era. I wouldn't jump off buildings just yet. Kracken may have to tank next year.People are saying next 2 drafts are packed with stars.
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SwedishFire
Registered User
- Mar 3, 2011
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Sorry for writing so badly. Smartphones has so small screens
If they get Schwartz and one of Landeskog or Saad, they are set. Save cap for next trading deadline.
Though play takes on the body, Schwartz offering his body, sadly it shows. But its with those pmayers you win. Not the offensive pointmaers in regular season, those arw the one to watch out for. They will just demand high cap contracts and sink managwment flexibility. Like Voracek, JVR, Tarasenko, a lot of russian players, all other overpaid secondliners without grit.
Even if Hamilton is out, Seattle has more than enough to pick from, whos to keep, whos to trade. Somw of the unknown defendwrs may be very hard to trade. Wxpect max a 6-7th rounder for some. Francis may should had aim a bit higher talentwise of some of the low end Ds.
Unfortunally fof Seattle Ive heard that Dunn, Scouy, Chowalski may sell highs, bot keepers. They should keep at least Scouy.
jbron
Registered User
Early on trends by Ron Francis that are somewhat alarming.
1. The love for large defensemen. All for building the team from the blue line out. It's a great way to begin to build a team. However, the team still needs depth down the middle. Who are the Centers on the Kraken? As a new franchise you have to light the lamp to get the place rocking. A better balance is needed . Further, is Hakstol the right coach to implement a heavy 200 foot game with grinders and defense? Time will tell and we can address that later.
2. Blinder approach to drafting. The Kraken certainly have a system in place, but is it the right one? Are advanced stats being relied on
too heavily? Again, is there a proper balance in place. Beniers was really a no briner at #2. Even if he wasn't the pick I doubt they would reach that far with
the first pick. Yet, in the second they reached for Evans, In the fourth they reached for Ottavainen. Being loyal to your draft board doesn't register wins.
Other teams with a history of drafting well like Colorado and Tampa don't pick players 2 rounds ahead of where they were projected. Basically, Francis passed
on good talent . When he didn't possess extra picks in the draft it was key that he made them count as he was picking high in each round. He might be
picking high in each round going forward as well.
3. Under appreciation of assets. Expansion draft picks like ( John Quenneville , Twarynski, Bayreuther, and MacDermid) offer no help in building assets. They left others that at least had more value. Further, why would the Kraken select Eberle over Bailey without a side deal? Lou had to be just one happy GM. Cap space not utilized with Philly for sure and possibly St Louis. The Kraken might have gotten Tarasenko and Dunn in a deal. Arizona, Columbus, and Buffalo had fire sales and the Kraken shared no part in any. Certainly, there should have been players selected to trade or deals made to take some offensive players with draft picks . Some of the expansion picks were absurd with little of no value. Further, others not selected didn't have high contracts to absorb. You simply can't leave value under any circumstances.
4. Where is the creativity? Francis is so conservative. He appears inflexible, and stubborn. This was the trend when he was GM in Carolina. Many thought it was bad ownership, but lets face it his tenure in Carolina was average at best. Holding cap space is valuable, but you have to build a team. So far one trade only? That is just unreal. Work the phones to improve the team. Standing pat with a system won't get it done. Other than valuing cap space and large defensemen , what is the plan? Certainly he's not building through the draft. Not with the selections made or his inability to gain future picks. Presently the upfront roster is bad. Adding Schwartz and Ladd helps but neither plays center. The only way to get a center is through trading. So far Francis is sitting on his hands, playing analytics, and holding cap space for futures isn't the kind of GM to pursue a trade. That's not the kind of aggressive approach that attracts winning over key free agents.
It's still early in the process and we will see what happens building the opening day roster. Disappointed there are already some concerns for sure.
1. The love for large defensemen. All for building the team from the blue line out. It's a great way to begin to build a team. However, the team still needs depth down the middle. Who are the Centers on the Kraken? As a new franchise you have to light the lamp to get the place rocking. A better balance is needed . Further, is Hakstol the right coach to implement a heavy 200 foot game with grinders and defense? Time will tell and we can address that later.
2. Blinder approach to drafting. The Kraken certainly have a system in place, but is it the right one? Are advanced stats being relied on
too heavily? Again, is there a proper balance in place. Beniers was really a no briner at #2. Even if he wasn't the pick I doubt they would reach that far with
the first pick. Yet, in the second they reached for Evans, In the fourth they reached for Ottavainen. Being loyal to your draft board doesn't register wins.
Other teams with a history of drafting well like Colorado and Tampa don't pick players 2 rounds ahead of where they were projected. Basically, Francis passed
on good talent . When he didn't possess extra picks in the draft it was key that he made them count as he was picking high in each round. He might be
picking high in each round going forward as well.
3. Under appreciation of assets. Expansion draft picks like ( John Quenneville , Twarynski, Bayreuther, and MacDermid) offer no help in building assets. They left others that at least had more value. Further, why would the Kraken select Eberle over Bailey without a side deal? Lou had to be just one happy GM. Cap space not utilized with Philly for sure and possibly St Louis. The Kraken might have gotten Tarasenko and Dunn in a deal. Arizona, Columbus, and Buffalo had fire sales and the Kraken shared no part in any. Certainly, there should have been players selected to trade or deals made to take some offensive players with draft picks . Some of the expansion picks were absurd with little of no value. Further, others not selected didn't have high contracts to absorb. You simply can't leave value under any circumstances.
4. Where is the creativity? Francis is so conservative. He appears inflexible, and stubborn. This was the trend when he was GM in Carolina. Many thought it was bad ownership, but lets face it his tenure in Carolina was average at best. Holding cap space is valuable, but you have to build a team. So far one trade only? That is just unreal. Work the phones to improve the team. Standing pat with a system won't get it done. Other than valuing cap space and large defensemen , what is the plan? Certainly he's not building through the draft. Not with the selections made or his inability to gain future picks. Presently the upfront roster is bad. Adding Schwartz and Ladd helps but neither plays center. The only way to get a center is through trading. So far Francis is sitting on his hands, playing analytics, and holding cap space for futures isn't the kind of GM to pursue a trade. That's not the kind of aggressive approach that attracts winning over key free agents.
It's still early in the process and we will see what happens building the opening day roster. Disappointed there are already some concerns for sure.
The Marquis
Moderator
Only a handful of teams made trades over the last week. Many of those that didn't were in the playoffs. Many of those that did were not. An important distinction.
Think about the most active teams over the last week (besides Seattle, because LMFAO). Chicago, Columbus, Detroit, Arizona. Pretty much only Philly was heavy on moves that also was good last season.
Also, while I totally don't understand any of the mentioned picks (John Quenneville , Twarynski, Bayreuther, and MacDermid), every team has this caliber of player in their roster. Seattle had a chance to avoid that, but strangely didn't. I guess we'll just have to see.
Think about the most active teams over the last week (besides Seattle, because LMFAO). Chicago, Columbus, Detroit, Arizona. Pretty much only Philly was heavy on moves that also was good last season.
Also, while I totally don't understand any of the mentioned picks (John Quenneville , Twarynski, Bayreuther, and MacDermid), every team has this caliber of player in their roster. Seattle had a chance to avoid that, but strangely didn't. I guess we'll just have to see.
Ray Martyniuk
Registered User
- Mar 13, 2019
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I bet GMRFrancis is chopping at the bit with UFA territory looming and over 30 Million in Cap Space especially when there going to be some NHL teams really in for a Big Hurt! Time to get that bonafide front line Forward(Landeskog) or two and get D Hamilton signed for the Defense! Seattle will still have Cap Space left when its all said and done!!!
The Marquis
Moderator
I think the most impressive thing is that they don't even need to sign Hamilton. That blue line is solid.
Offensively there is work to be done. 30m ought to help.
Offensively there is work to be done. 30m ought to help.
Svencouver
Registered User
To be honest, is there anything stopping Seattle from saying that, in the long run, and with the goal of winning the cup - it's best to try to get one of Wright/Bedard/Michkov? Especially right now, where one can really load up on cap space, which will be an unbelievably valuable luxury asset over the next few years of flat cap. This almost certainly gives them an iconic, household name franchise #1 gamebreaking talent out the gate to market and build around. There haven't been many times better than this to go for talent in the draft.
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
What would most likely stop the 'tank' from happening in Seattle is the ownership. Starting a new franchise with a tank would be a terrible look for them.
I think it will be easy enough to tell us which direction Ron Francis (and the organization) is heading in when we see the moves (or lack of) in Free Agency and/or trades to improve the roster.
Is Seattle worse than Anaheim, San Jose, Los Angeles, Buffalo, Arizona or Detroit? I don't see how they can hit it big in next year's draft lottery if they're a borderline playoff team in a pitiful Pacific division.
The problem I have with the way Francis managed the expansion draft is Vegas GAVE Seattle a template to work with. No they weren't going to get the same haul as Vegas, but you still have the opportunity to extract draft picks as well as take on some expensive contracts, eat some of the salary and flip them for assets. Is Seattle the expansion team or Arizona because the Coyotes are the ones weaponizing their cap space? No one's stopping Buffalo or Detroit from taking on bad contracts from other teams so that those teams can chase after Landeskog, Hamilton, etc..
The problem I have with the way Francis managed the expansion draft is Vegas GAVE Seattle a template to work with. No they weren't going to get the same haul as Vegas, but you still have the opportunity to extract draft picks as well as take on some expensive contracts, eat some of the salary and flip them for assets. Is Seattle the expansion team or Arizona because the Coyotes are the ones weaponizing their cap space? No one's stopping Buffalo or Detroit from taking on bad contracts from other teams so that those teams can chase after Landeskog, Hamilton, etc..
Svencouver
Registered User
I definitely agree with the optics/finances side of that, but you also have to consider weighing it with being able to get that real potential top 5 in the league talent to headline your new team. Not saying that any one of those 3 players necessarily measures up to a Crosby, Ovechkin, or McDavid, but generational players are what really get people invested
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
You won't hear any argument from me. For some teams it is a good time to try and tank for the 2022/23 drafts.
But with the recent and immediate success of the Knights as an expansion franchise, the optics of how we perform is more critical than say 5 years back. Veteran hockey fans like a lot of folks on our boards may understand the importance of generational talent but the average hockey fan in Seattle won't.
The Marquis
Moderator
It's important to remember that Seattle STILL needs to spend at minimum nearly 10 million on 5 players. Look at that as 5 players at 2m. We'll get some solid hands. Good "workers" as the rasslin' fans would say. "Carpenters". That's good. That's the MINIMUM.
Cane mutiny
Ahoy_Aho
- Sep 5, 2006
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You're right about a lot of this, but the Hamilton/Ferland trade was done in the summer of 2018-19 season by Don Waddell/TD, and worked out great for CAR. It sparked our first playoff run in 10 years and would not have happened without trade. RF would never have made that fateful trade. He is a very conservative and careful man, and seemed to have trouble trading away players he drafted. Infact, I can't remember him making an actual player for player trade the whole four years he was GM. He did bring in players via FA, but can't recall an actual trade.
Anyway, that's the trade, among other moves, that got the ball rolling for CAR, and was the beginning of a new day for the franchise.
Sorry to interject myself into your space and mean no disrespect, but I thought you should know and not blame that move on RF.
Best wishes for your inaugural season. Hope you do well and build many great memories together in Seattle.
garmonbozia
Registered User
- Jan 10, 2006
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I think taking on Bickell's contract and getting Teravainen for a 2nd and 3rd is the type of trade he's hoping his cap space allows him to capitalize on. Other than that deal, his trades as Carolina GM were mostly underwhelming.
I anticipate some 2nd to 5th round picks for excess defensemen type trades after the first week of free agency. But, not a lot of trade capital he can afford to give away to go after bigger targets that were protected in the expansion draft.
I anticipate some 2nd to 5th round picks for excess defensemen type trades after the first week of free agency. But, not a lot of trade capital he can afford to give away to go after bigger targets that were protected in the expansion draft.
