Prospect Info: Robert Hagg [March 2014: AAV is $925k, 3-yr ELC, per Tim P.]

[Ghosts Beer]

Well according to you 40 games is too small of a sample and zone starts have a significant impact over small samples. A game with 60% OZ starts should result in a better CF% than 38 according to your theory.

The “theory” is you can’t judge players’ Corsi on small sample sizes.
But maybe you think Dale Weise & Matt Read were top 6 Flyers last year. And maybe you think Sanheim is better than Provorov.
Gotta stop with treating Corsi like God, IMO.

 

[FLYguy3911]

The “theory” is you can’t judge players’ Corsi on small sample sizes.
But maybe you think Dale Weise & Matt Read were top 6 Flyers last year.

Serious question. Do you know even know what Corsi is supposed to represent?

Dale Weise

53.29 CF%
+3.41 CF% rel

53.36 xGF%
+5.28 xGF% rel

52.83 GF%
+10.3 GF% rel

Matt Read

54.73 CF%
+4.06 CF% rel

51.27 xGF%
+1.76 xGF% rel

52.63 GF%
+7.23 GF% rel

Who did Corsi have at the bottom last year? Gordon, Schultz, VdV, and MacDonald. I'd say that passes the smell test.

Robert Hagg

46.17 CF%
-5.26 CF% rel

49.69 xGF%
-0.86 xGF% rel

59.65 GF%
+10.74 GF% rel

What number looks out of whack?

Every guy on the team but Wayne Simmonds performs better away from Hagg than they do with him. That's kind of significant.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I know that Corsi said Weise & Read were top 6 Flyers last season.

Do you believe they were?

 

[FLYguy3911]

So I'll take that as a no you do not know what Corsi represents.

 

[deadhead]

Hagg fills a role, he's the only physical D-man they have, Provorov and Gudas hit people, but they're only a little more than 200 lbs and struggle moving bigger players out of the crease.
He's playing better, he's not going to be a top defenseman but we've seen much worse.
The idea that he can't improve is silly, Manning made big strides over 3 years, Gudas went from marginal to top four.
Gudas in his first full year, at age 23, had a CF% of 48.9 and CFrel of -4.7.
Gudas, like Hagg, spent three years in the AHL from 20-22.

He's never going to be a big Corsi guy, but should improve passing and skating.
Hagg's value is going to be to provide a physical presence, especially on the PK, and against physical teams that like to crowd the crease.

 

[JXC]

He's never going to be a big Corsi guy, but should improve passing and skating.
Hagg's value is going to be to provide a physical presence, especially on the PK, and against physical teams that like to crowd the crease.

He’s a 16 minute third pairing PK guy on a team that competes to win its Conference.

 

[whitstifier]

Hagg is 6'2" 204 lbs
Provorov is 6'1" 201 lbs
Gudas is 6' 204 lbs

Gee, what a difference...

 

[sa cyred]

Oyyy it’s like people don’t want him to have a good game.

He had a solid game. Let’s leave it there.

 

[Embiid]

Tim P.......nightmares

 

[whitstifier]

How did Hagg have a solid game?

 

[1865]

Lay off guys. He’s a rookie who’s going to balance out into a 5/6 guy. Not everyone can be Provorov. At least we’re producing our own all the way down the roster.

 

[BritainStix]

This board has some posters that are really embarrassing. I wonder how many other rookies get slated like this on other boards.

 

[Breeze 44]

This board has some posters that are really embarrassing. I wonder how many other rookies get slated like this on other boards.

Same with Goalies, Pelle got off easy and they would have turned on Bernie as well... I mean Hexy was only loved while he played because of how physical he played but God forbid he gave up a softy (and some peoples idea of softy is nuts)..he was only treated better when he came back.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Hagg gets so much vitriol and it really doesn't matter that while he gets caved in possession wise his actual play in defensive zone is light years ahead of last year's escapades between manning, mdz, streit and schultz.
I really don't remember even Grossman getting so much hate.

 

[whitstifier]

He gets ripped because he's not a 5/6 D, no matter how much you claim otherwise. He's pretty similar to Grossmann quality. Maybe he has bad Schultz upside?

He was not "solid" yesterday. The team was solid.

 

[deadhead]

Hagg is 6'2" 204 lbs
Provorov is 6'1" 201 lbs
Gudas is 6' 204 lbs

Gee, what a difference...

Hagg was 6'2 210 on the training camp roster, the most credible source for current size.
A lot of the listed numbers go back to when players were drafted.

And looking at him, he's definitely bigger than Provorov and Gudas.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

He gets ripped because he's not a 5/6 D, no matter how much you claim otherwise. He's pretty similar to Grossmann quality. Maybe he has bad Schultz upside?

He was not "solid" yesterday. The team was solid.

I guess not everyone can be such a revered talent as gustafsson or akeson, huh?

 

[whitstifier]

I guess not everyone can be such a revered talent as gustafsson or akeson, huh?

Who? What?

 

[whitstifier]

Hagg was 6'2 210 on the training camp roster, the most credible source for current size.
A lot of the listed numbers go back to when players were drafted.

And looking at him, he's definitely bigger than Provorov and Gudas.

Insignificant

 

[JXC]

Same with Goalies, Pelle got off easy and they would have turned on Bernie as well... I mean Hexy was only loved while he played because of how physical he played but God forbid he gave up a softy (and some peoples idea of softy is nuts)..he was only treated better when he came back.

As a younger man I booed Hextall for allowing five hole goals, and I booed Mike Schmidt for running through a stop sign at third base. What a pair of mistakes. Thirty years later my face still turns red with the embarrassment of having been such a callous and shallow douchebag in my youth.

One of the few good things about growing older is becoming more tolerant of the weaknesses that inevitably become apparent in every one of our fellow human beings. Once we realize that nobody’s perfect, we have two choices: deal with it, or become angry.

 

[Audible Velvet]

Is anyone doing zone exit/entry tracking these days? I'm curious to see his performance in this area. I know someone was doing it at some point, but it's a laborious undertaking.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Hagg fills a role, he's the only physical D-man they have, Provorov and Gudas hit people, but they're only a little more than 200 lbs and struggle moving bigger players out of the crease.
He's playing better, he's not going to be a top defenseman but we've seen much worse.
The idea that he can't improve is silly, Manning made big strides over 3 years, Gudas went from marginal to top four.
Gudas in his first full year, at age 23, had a CF% of 48.9 and CFrel of -4.7.
Gudas, like Hagg, spent three years in the AHL from 20-22.

He's never going to be a big Corsi guy, but should improve passing and skating.
Hagg's value is going to be to provide a physical presence, especially on the PK, and against physical teams that like to crowd the crease.

He gets so much hate because fans are enamored with Sanheim & Morin; utterly despise the coach; and think Corsi is a rating straight from God even though it says Weise & Read were in the top 6 Flyers last season.
Hägg probably plays too much, but the all-out hatred is out of control.

 

[JXC]

He gets so much hate because fans are enamored with Sanheim & Morin; utterly despise the coach; and think Corsi is a rating straight from God even though it says Weise & Read were in the top 6 Flyers last season.
Hägg probably plays too much, but the all-out hatred is out of control.

Yes yes yes.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I like JXC. The older you get, the more you understand shades of gray. As a kid, it’s all black & white. Awareness is gray.

 

[JXC]

I like JXC. The older you get, the more you understand shades of gray. As a kid, it’s all black & white. Awareness is gray.

You’re too kind, and back at you!

Awareness is gray.

Never heard it stated that way, well said.