Prospect Info: Riley Kidney, LHC, Gatineau Olympiques (QMJHL ), 63rd overall

[Kudo Shinichi]

Don't forget, Tampa finished bottom ten in the league 5 times in a 6 year period.

They drafted 1, 2, 6, 27, 10, 3 in that period.

Is that a fast rebuild if we finish bottom ten in 5 of the next 6 years, including bottom three in 3 of them?

Only 2 of those top five top 10 picks played a role in their cup wins (Stamkos and Hedman). Stamkos also only played 1 game in their 1st cup win, so he didn't help them with that.

Tampa created a good roster mostly by drafting well outside the top 10 and making solid trades/signings.

 

[26Mats]

Only 2 of those top five top 10 picks played a role in their cup wins (Stamkos and Hedman). Stamkos also only played 1 game in their 1st cup win, so he didn't help them with that.

Tampa created a good roster mostly by drafting well outside the top 10 and making solid trades/signings.

The point was they were at the bottom 5 of 6 years. There was no quick turnaround...

Drouin was traded for Sergachev who played a role... but they probably don't win the cup without Hedman. When you get lottery picks some will fail (Connolly and the guy they took 10th overall). 0lus they got Vasilevski by trading a vet for an extra 1st in yet another year they were at the bottom. That's why you likely need 5 years at the bottom. At least Tampa did.

 

[Skip Bayless]

You nailed it.

We’re going to be bad for Atleast another 2 years, possibly contend for playoffs in 3. Will take another 2-3 years to establish ourselves as contenders.

Of course, this is all doing it “the right way”. If management fumbles and starts picking up bandaids (I’m looking at you pro signing Letang people), then we might make the playoffs sooner but likely won’t ever content. Same old plan, different GM.

It depends on goaltending.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

You nailed it.

We’re going to be bad for Atleast another 2 years, possibly contend for playoffs in 3. Will take another 2-3 years to establish ourselves as contenders.

Of course, this is all doing it “the right way”. If management fumbles and starts picking up bandaids (I’m looking at you pro signing Letang people), then we might make the playoffs sooner but likely won’t ever content. Same old plan, different GM.

I think most people's reasoning for signing a veteran like Letang wouldn't be to try and make the playoffs next year, it would be to have a respected veteran around to help our young D like Romanov/Guhle/Barron/Harris/Norlinder develop over the next 2-3 years by giving them veteran partners.

Romanov - Letang
Edmundson - Barron
Harris - Savard

We have 20 wins this year, adding Letang likely won't even bring us out of the bottom five next year. The band-aid moves we have to avoid would be given long-term deals to guys in their late 20's/early 30's just to try and stay competitive like Bergevin did - the Hoffman/Armia/Byron/Gallagher contracts are a huge part of why we are in the miss we are.

 

[Nicko999]

You nailed it.

We’re going to be bad for Atleast another 2 years, possibly contend for playoffs in 3. Will take another 2-3 years to establish ourselves as contenders.

Of course, this is all doing it “the right way”. If management fumbles and starts picking up bandaids (I’m looking at you pro signing Letang people), then we might make the playoffs sooner but likely won’t ever content. Same old plan, different GM.

The way I see it:

Next year we will be god awful once again. If we ship Petry (try and retain some salary for a 1st rounder), our defense will be even worse and no impactful forward will be added. Cooley is in the NCAA next year and I doubt Wright is anything more than a 40 pts player in his first year.

The key is really the 23 draft. A generational player available and 2-3 franchise one.

I then expect the Habs to take a big leap forward in 2023-2024 but still no playoffs.

Earliest I see us qualify for the playoffs is 24-25.

And then maybe start to contend in 25-26.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

The point was they were at the bottom 5 of 6 years. There was no quick turnaround...

Drouin was traded for Sergachev who played a role... but they probably don't win the cup without Hedman. When you get lottery picks some will fail (Connolly and the guy they took 10th overall). 0lus they got Vasilevski by trading a vet for an extra 1st in yet another year they were at the bottom. That's why you likely need 5 years at the bottom. At least Tampa did.

There is no specific amount of time required to rebuild. A team that drafts well and does good trades will have a much quicker rebuild than a team that does not do that well.

The habs are not in year 1 of rebuild/retool this year. They've been accumulating a lot of draft picks since 2018. They need another high pick next year, but after that, it is possible they are ready to compete for a playoff spot.

 

[FF de Mars]

There is no specific amount of time required to rebuild. A team that drafts well and does good trades will have a much quicker rebuild than a team that does not do that well.

The habs are not in year 1 of rebuild/retool this year. They've been accumulating a lot of draft picks since 2018. They need another high pick next year, but after that, it remains to be seen if they are ready to compete for a playoff spot or not.

If you compare with buyers this is indeed an interesting way of looking at it.

 

[26Mats]

There is no specific amount of time required to rebuild. A team that drafts well and does good trades will have a much quicker rebuild than a team that does not do that well.

The habs are not in year 1 of rebuild/retool this year. They've been accumulating a lot of draft picks since 2018. They need another high pick next year, but after that, it is possible they are ready to compete for a playoff spot.

Bahahaha

Bahahaha

 

[dcyhabs]

There is no specific amount of time required to rebuild. A team that drafts well and does good trades will have a much quicker rebuild than a team that does not do that well.

The habs are not in year 1 of rebuild/retool this year. They've been accumulating a lot of draft picks since 2018. They need another high pick next year, but after that, it is possible they are ready to compete for a playoff spot.

There is no specific time but many of the top teams had a pretty long series of pretty rough years a few seasons before they got good.

I agree that Hughes and Gorton should build the front office so that they can succeed long term without tanking, but the team is bad enough that short term tanking is the way to go. They need a lot of players and getting them by out-competing the rest of the league is going to be difficult. Making up the deficit with a few really bad seasons and high draft picks can be done as long as the scouts are good.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There is no specific amount of time required to rebuild. A team that drafts well and does good trades will have a much quicker rebuild than a team that does not do that well.

The habs are not in year 1 of rebuild/retool this year. They've been accumulating a lot of draft picks since 2018. They need another high pick next year, but after that, it is possible they are ready to compete for a playoff spot.

How many years do you think the Sens will take in the "ready to compete for the playoffs"? Aside from Boucher last year, they have had some really good picks.

Wondering what kind of impact Sanderson makes for them next season?

Ready to compete vs actually competing can be two different things. It's possible we are stuck at the bottom for a while yet and I believe we try to sell on more vets this summer. That may be for the best even if it's HuGo's plan to rise up earlier like you think as well.

 

[jrom]

There is no specific amount of time required to rebuild. A team that drafts well and does good trades will have a much quicker rebuild than a team that does not do that well.

The habs are not in year 1 of rebuild/retool this year. They've been accumulating a lot of draft picks since 2018. They need another high pick next year, but after that, it is possible they are ready to compete for a playoff spot.

Even if by some miracle we make it to the playoffs, why would we try to do that ? We would lose in the first round especially with how strong the competition is in our division.

As for missing 1 high pick, this player won’t make a big impact next year, we are missing 4x top6 players and our RD is inexistant.

It’s convenient that the 2023 draft is loaded but we’re not gonna be bad by intent next year, we’re gonna be bad because of all the $ going to players like Drouin, Hoffman, Armia, Gallagher, Byron + Webber/Price anchors that will cost us assets to move.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I will vomit if this team makes the playoffs next year

 

[Habs Halifax]

I will vomit if this team makes the playoffs next year

If we do, that means Suzuki, Caufield, Romanov, Guhle, Barron, Harris, and other younger players have unreal seasons. It's not happening with rebounds with Price, Gallagher, Drouin, Hoffman, Byron. And I doubt we are going to be able to free up enough cap space to sign the top UFA's.

Probability is very low.

 

[Frankenheimer]

Absolutely - the two of them are also prime examples of the Habs refreshed development program.

Um, haven't they just been playing in the Q as usual? They are examples of good draft picks, for now.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Um, haven't they just been playing in the Q as usual? They are examples of good draft picks, for now.

Sorry what I meant was -will be prime examples-, the rest of the post was meant to outline what they need to do to improve.

Everything they need hockey wise to succeed is there, now can the new development team and approach ensure they get where they need to be? These players would bust easily under Bergevin.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Even if by some miracle we make it to the playoffs, why would we try to do that ? We would lose in the first round especially with how strong the competition is in our division.

As for missing 1 high pick, this player won’t make a big impact next year, we are missing 4x top6 players and our RD is inexistant.

It’s convenient that the 2023 draft is loaded but we’re not gonna be bad by intent next year, we’re gonna be bad because of all the $ going to players like Drouin, Hoffman, Armia, Gallagher, Byron + Webber/Price anchors that will cost us assets to move.

How many years do you think the Sens will take in the "ready to compete for the playoffs"? Aside from Boucher last year, they have had some really good picks.

Wondering what kind of impact Sanderson makes for them next season?

Ready to compete vs actually competing can be two different things. It's possible we are stuck at the bottom for a while yet and I believe we try to sell on more vets this summer. That may be for the best even if it's HuGo's plan to rise up earlier like you think as well.

Sens were technically ready to compete for the playoffs this year after announcing that their rebuild was over. When I say ready to compete I don't mean making the playoffs or missing it by a couple of points at worst. I mean having a change of mindset from rebuilding to competing. That could mean signing a good UFA player that could help the team win games, which is not something we should do this summer.

For the 2023-24 season, the habs will have added to their roster a top 3 pick (possibly 2 depending on where we draft next year), Guhle, Barron, Ylonen, RHP, Roy or Farrell, Primeau, etc. We will also have a lot of prospects close to ready within the next few years. Add to that the progression to St. Louis (coaching), Caufield, Suzuki, Romanov, Poehling, and Harris, and the addition of a couple of good ufas, we should be miles better than what we've been this year.

I see all three of Capitals, Penguins, and Boston declining hard within the next few years. That is when we likely have a good chance of making the playoffs.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

D+1 year:
Suzuki: 100 pts in 64 games
Kidney: 98 pts in 64 games

 

[1909]

Kidney, Roy, Farrell have all good , impressive stats at the level they are playing. But it is hard to forecast how well they gonna do IF they reach the NHL. All of them have smaller bodies, and need to gain lots of muscle before being NHL ready.

Habs need more skilled, big forwards. That is why I want Slafkovsky.

 

[26Mats]

Kidney, Roy, Farrell have all good , impressive stats at the level they are playing. But it is hard to forecast how ell they gonna do IF the reach the NHL. All of them have smaller bodies, and need to gain lots of muscle before being NHL ready.

Habs need more skilled, big forwards. That is why I want Slafkovsky.

Slakvovsky may fill a need. But we've seen what drafting for need can do...

As long as Slafkovsky is best player available when we're up, I'm fine with taking him. We will have many more lottery picks in the upcoming years. No need to by pass BPA for need at this point.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Kidney, Roy, Farrell have all good , impressive stats at the level they are playing. But it is hard to forecast how ell they gonna do IF the reach the NHL. All of them have smaller bodies, and need to gain lots of muscle before being NHL ready.

Habs need more skilled, big forwards. That is why I want Slafkovsky.

This. It's really great that they are doing well in their league but playing in the AHL or NHL is 2 different things.

They have the progression going great but some people are already adding them into our lineup as top 9 forward for the next 2 years ''as regulars'' are out of their mind.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

D+1 year:
Suzuki: 100 pts in 64 games
Kidney: 98 pts in 64 games

What I find really intriguing is that Kidney is seriously out producing Lapierre on the same team, and he was a unanimous 1st round pick for the Caps and is considered one of their best prospects.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Kidney, Roy, Farrell have all good , impressive stats at the level they are playing. But it is hard to forecast how ell they gonna do IF the reach the NHL. All of them have smaller bodies, and need to gain lots of muscle before being NHL ready.

Habs need more skilled, big forwards. That is why I want Slafkovsky.

I’d much rather have 3-4 of these smaller guys put up huge production based on their skill then a bunch of average sized players that play “the right way” putting up average production ala Ben Maxwell.

Farrell & Roy we’re late round swings, which look really good right now. Kidney isn’t that small and putting on 10-15lbs between now and 21 is a cake walk. His IQ is on full display, he was a good 2nd round pick.

Yes, like with everything else we’ll need to be patient.

The thing about big bodies like Slafkovsky is they often get rushed to the NHL and don’t put up the numbers you’d like. His numbers in Liiga are ok, but they pale to compare to Laine or Puljujaarvi in their draft seasons and they were Top-5 picks. People are hot and horny because he scored 7 goals at the olympics.

I’d much rather see Wright, Cooley, Jiricek or Nemec in a Habs jersey than Slafkovsky.

 

[1909]

I’d much rather have 3-4 of these smaller guys put up huge production based on their skill then a bunch of average sized players that play “the right way” putting up average production ala Ben Maxwell.

Farrell & Roy we’re late round swings, which look really good right now. Kidney isn’t that small and putting on 10-15lbs between now and 21 is a cake walk. His IQ is on full display, he was a good 2nd round pick.

Yes, like with everything else we’ll need to be patient.

The thing about big bodies like Slafkovsky is they often get rushed to the NHL and don’t put up the numbers you’d like. His numbers in Liiga are ok, but they pale to compare to Laine or Puljujaarvi in their draft seasons and they were Top-5 picks. People are hot and horny because he scored 7 goals at the olympics.

I’d much rather see Wright, Cooley, Jiricek or Nemec in a Habs jersey than Slafkovsky.

And I'd rather have Brady Tkatchuk and Batherson ..... than Ylonen or KK.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

And I'd rather have Brady Tkatchuk and Batherson ..... than Ylonen or KK.

Neither of which put up huge numbers, but please, do continue.

 

[1909]

Neither of which put up huge numbers, but please, do continue.

I meant, big bodies with skills is what Habs need. Habs teams in the past had that component. Size and skills.