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Speculation: *Rifai vs. Liljegren. Rifai Clears. Liljegren healthy scratch.

With the winds of change blowing through the Scotiabank Arena, who will be their 6th D?

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Ianturnedbull

Ianturnedbull

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Jun 11, 2022
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Not the elite result I was envisioning.

I am sorry.

Rifai Mania is not a thing like Brandon Kozun Mania was.

Life with Liljegren will have to live on sadly.
 
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Ianturnedbull

Ianturnedbull

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ponder said:
It’s the result everyone without a weird Liljegren hate obsession was expecting. Lily isn’t perfect, and he’s definitely a guy who leaves you wanting more in terms of potential vs reality, but he’s clearly better than Rifai, it’s not that close.
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I don't think that people from sportsnet/tsn hate Liljegren. They felt that Rifai would make the team and be their #7 D. I suppose Berube/Tre felt that Liljegren will be a better #7.
 
Da Mash

Da Mash

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Jul 14, 2022
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Rifai has his limitations and was rightfully waived. It doesn’t really mean Lilly is off the hook tho.
Tre kicking himself now and is probably looking to trade him.
I am a fan of Lilly but he just hasn’t taken that next step….and Berube isn’t a fan.

The writing is on the wall I assume…
 
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ponder

ponder

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Ianturnedbull said:
I don't think that people from sportsnet/tsn hate Liljegren. They felt that Rifai would make the team and be their #7 D. I suppose Berube/Tre felt that Liljegren will be a better #7.
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How are you figuring #7? Assuming McCabe is healthy for game 1, and Hakanpaa is on IR, our most likely top 6 D to start the season are Rielly, Tanev, McCabe, Benoit, OEL and Liljegren. And I think for now Timmins/Myers will be the #7/8. Hakanpaa is skating again but seems a decent way from game ready.

When Hakanpaa gets healthy, will be interesting to see how he slots in vs Liljegren/Timmins/Myers, he could be anywhere from our #6 to #9, or even worse than #9 if he’s really lost a step.

I think it’s reasonably likely Rifai clears waivers, and gets a shot with the Leafs as an injury callup at some point this season. But I just do not see him as being on Liljegren’s level, either offensively or defensively. He’s more physical and brings more energy/motor, but the skill gap is too big.
 
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ponder

ponder

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ULF_55 said:
68% to 32%

Decisive.
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Leafs HFboards love scapegoating players, Marner and Liljegren being the two biggest current ones, but there are always multiple. Leafs have been a very frustrating team for a long time, and the fan frustration constantly bubbles over into hate for specific players/coaches. Doesn’t mean it’s rational, though, or in line with what Leafs management think.

Liljegren is in a similar position to younger versions of Nylander or Kadri - a young player with clear potential who hasn’t hit it yet. Not that Lily’s potential is as high as those 2, but he’s similar in being a skilled/talented player with a lot more to give. Coaches are always gonna focus more on these guys because of the potential payoff, so it will often seem that they’re in the coach’s doghouse, but the coach is just trying to get the most out of them. It doesn’t mean they’re worse than AHLers, it just means they need to work hard and clean up their weaknesses to reach their potential. Nylander and Kadri did so, hopefully Lily can too.
 
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Buds17

Buds17

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ponder said:
It’s the result everyone without a weird Liljegren hate obsession was expecting. Lily isn’t perfect, and he’s definitely a guy who leaves you wanting more in terms of potential vs reality, but he’s clearly better than Rifai, it’s not that close.
Click to expand...
Liljegren is also a bit younger and has far more in the way of NHL experience.
 
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GoonieFace

GoonieFace

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If you saw Rifai and Liligren play (and don’t know who was who), were not told what round they were drafted in or how old they are, most people would say Rifai is better. But people can’t get over Liligren being a former 1st rd pick, he’s just not good.
 
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IPS

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GoonieFace said:
If you saw Rifai and Liligren play, but were not told what round they were drafted in or how old they are, most people would say Rifai is better. But people can’t get over Liligren being a former 1st rd pick, he’s just not good.
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There is no other fanbase in the league that is so divided on what a good D looks like than this one.

Justin Holl just got put on waivers and we had an entire section of the fanbase constantly try and gaslight the rest of the fanbase insisting that he was an elite shutdown D.

ponder said:
Leafs HFboards love scapegoating players, Marner and Liljegren being the two biggest current ones, but there are always multiple. Leafs have been a very frustrating team for a long time, and the fan frustration constantly bubbles over into hate for specific players/coaches. Doesn’t mean it’s rational, though, or in line with what Leafs management think.

Liljegren is in a similar position to younger versions of Nylander or Kadri - a young player with clear potential who hasn’t hit it yet. Not that Lily’s potential is as high as those 2, but he’s similar in being a skilled/talented player with a lot more to give. Coaches are always gonna focus more on these guys because of the potential payoff, so it will often seem that they’re in the coach’s doghouse, but the coach is just trying to get the most out of them. It doesn’t mean they’re worse than AHLers, it just means they need to work hard and clean up their weaknesses to reach their potential. Nylander and Kadri did so, hopefully Lily can too.
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There's no scapegoating. It's been 7 years since he's been drafted now.

He just ain't cutting at the NHL level, sorry.
 
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IPS

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Ianturnedbull said:
Didn't any of the Liljegren Apologists get nervous when Toronto put him with the B Squad? The way people talk about him it's as though he's a lock. I don't think so.
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Yeah when Berube hit town the writing was already on the wall for LIiljegren.

We're not dealing with any of these soft terrible D anymore, we actually have a coach who knows what a winning D is supposed to look like.
 
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Macallan18

Macallan18

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IPS said:
Yeah when Berube hit town the writing was already on the wall for LIiljegren.

We're not dealing with any of these soft terrible D anymore, we actually have a coach who knows what a winning D is supposed to look like.
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Yup, Rifai on waivers, that'll teach that soft Lilly chicken swede!!!!

GoonieFace said:
If you saw Rifai and Liligren play (and don’t know who was who), were not told what round they were drafted in or how old they are, most people would say Rifai is better. But people can’t get over Liligren being a former 1st rd pick, he’s just not good.
Click to expand...
ummm, Rifai on waivers.
 
Menzinger

Menzinger

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IPS said:
There is no other fanbase in the league that is so divided on what a good D looks like than this one.

Justin Holl just got put on waivers and we had an entire section of the fanbase constantly try and gaslight the rest of the fanbase insisting that he was an elite shutdown D.


There's no scapegoating. It's been 7 years since he's been drafted now.

He just ain't cutting at the NHL level, sorry.
Click to expand...

To be fair, Yzerman also thought he was worth 10+ mil

That said,.hard to disagree that the Leafs as an organization has been awful at drafting and developing young D men. I don't think a single GM in the cap era has even challenged that trend (with the slight caveat that some of Dubas'/Tres picks remain question marks still)
 

IPS

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Macallan18 said:
Yup, Rifai on waivers, that'll teach that soft Lilly chicken swede!!!!
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What you think Liljegren's gonna be a starter on this team?

A healthy Hakanpaa is taking that #6 spot the second he is healthy.
 

All Mod Cons

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IPS said:
There is no other fanbase in the league that is so divided on what a good D looks like than this one.

Justin Holl just got put on waivers and we had an entire section of the fanbase constantly try and gaslight the rest of the fanbase insisting that he was an elite shutdown D.


There's no scapegoating. It's been 7 years since he's been drafted now.

He just ain't cutting at the NHL level, sorry.
Click to expand...
The previous management managed to brainwash a huge section of the fanbase. To be fair to them, that is a hugely impressive feat and a great trait to have for someone in charge.

The outcry and mouring over the loss of Sam Lafferty was rampant within the group that now don't seem to be able to think for themselves.

How many times do we see fans post graphs to show someone had a good game? We know they had a good game without any chart or graph being needed.

And when moves from previous management didn't work out (this happened frequently), apparently the logic was always really good, just didn't work out.

I didn't see the logic with about 90% of the moves the previous management made.
 
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DarkKnight

DarkKnight

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IPS said:
There is no other fanbase in the league that is so divided on what a good D looks like than this one.

Justin Holl just got put on waivers and we had an entire section of the fanbase constantly try and gaslight the rest of the fanbase insisting that he was an elite shutdown D.


There's no scapegoating. It's been 7 years since he's been drafted now.
Click to expand...
And the same crowd kept throwing these "stats" around that clearly showed what a tremendous D man Holl was, at every turn some advanced metric to counter what a blind rat could see, he STUNK. And just like Lil, when the playoffs came, he was manhandled and abused all over the ice.

Advanced stats have a place. Also true, there's a stat now for every tortured argument. Lil isn't a good D man, just like Holl wasn't and no puffed up metric changes that reality. I take great pleasure today that my tired old EYE hated both Holl and Engvall, it confirms a lot, yes they do STINK.

Lil sticks around because we don't have options atm, but there is no question Tre and Berube aren't sold. That bodes well for how they are building this identity.
 
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ULF_55

ULF_55

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Ianturnedbull said:
This thread isn't dead. Things might turn in my favor tomorrow.

It could be elite...
Click to expand...

You mean if Rifai isn't claimed, and likely won't be, they can call him up and use him for a month while working on a trade for Liljegren?

And while they could take Rifai for nothing but would rather trade assets for Liljegren?

Possible, say they didn't want to lose a valuable asset on waivers and would rather trade that valuable asset for a RD NHL defenseman.

Makes sense.
 
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