Rick Nash

[Pizza]

At least in terms of distance, there's not a whole lot of difference in the shots he's getting now as opposed to the regular season, as I addressed.

Is it possible you don't consider them good scoring chances because your mind has already decided that Nash is bad so you view his shots differently?

Admittedly, I'm as susceptible to bias as the next joe. But he just looks very different to me. Every aspect of his game: battle level, skating everything just looks way off. The way he skates to the bench for God's sakes looks very lazy.

Look the guy has not scored one goal. Something is wrong. Maybe very wrong.

It would be one thing if he was not scoring but all over the ice. Fore checking. Back checking. Holding the puck against the boards and battling. Moving his feet more. Going to the tough areas of the ice. battling in the slot. None of this happens for any sustained period of time. If at all. I honestly can't remember when I really noticed him on my screen at home. He's just not there.

If he was doing these things with a high level of intensity, I'd bet he would have at least a goal or three.

 

[Fitzy]

Look, 31, if I had 20 dart throws at the board compared to just 3 for the person I was playing against, yo'd expect me to get the higher total just by sheer probability.

But that doesn't really take into account much of the context. If I'm throwing darts backwards with my eyes closed, it's entirely possible that a decent darts player could outscore me.

I get your overall point, and agree with much of it. But some players finishing suffers. Chris Higgins can speak to that.

It's a small sample size, but Nash has been without production in his entire playoff career. If Lundqvist had 5 playoff wins, it wouldn't matter if the sample size was relatively small, people would say he wasn't the goaltender in the playoffs that he was in the regular season.

The good news is, Nash is on this team what he should be expected to be; a complementary scoring threat like James Neal. His production doesn't make or break this team, with the depth it has.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Admittedly, I'm as susceptible to bias as the next joe. But he just looks very different to me. Every aspect of his game: battle level, skating everything just looks way off. The way he skates to the bench for God's sakes looks very lazy.

Look the guy has not scored one goal. Something is wrong. Maybe very wrong.

It would be one thing if he was not scoring but all over the ice. Fore checking. Back checking. Holding the puck against the boards and battling. Moving his feet more. Going to the tough areas of the ice. battling in the slot. None of this happens for any sustained period of time. If at all. I honestly can't remember when I really noticed him on my screen at home. He's just not there.

If he was doing these things with a high level of intensity, I'd bet he would have at least a goal or three.

Ya I agree. Something really strange going on here. There are slumps when people are snake-bitten and just can't buy a goal no matter what, and there is Nash, who looks like a ghost out there at times.

 

[ImIdaho]

I still cannot get over the fact that we traded for him when all we needed was a guy who performs in the play offs. The guy had 4 play off games in 10 seasons before joining the Rangers.

It was the possibility that his linemates weren't up to par in Columbus. It's safe to say that isn't the case. Funny thing is his ex-teammate from Columbus has been playing significantly better: Brassard.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Look at 31's link.

Crosby had 1 goal. Krecji had 0 goals. Nash has tons of shots, and they aren't from as far out as people seem to think. The odds of shooting at 0% for that many shots or more are extremely slim.

Also, Datsyuk played almost 50 playoff games before he got the hold of how to score in the post season.

Nash has played 30 playoff games combined in his entire career. 30 games is not a completely ridiculous amount of time for a player to slump or struggle. The fact that the games are playoff games doesn't make slumps stop happening.

You say he's never displayed his skills. So, what exactly do you think is happening? The slight change in play style from regular season to playoffs makes a 30 goal scorer a 0 goal scorer?

I'm not hoping for the best. I'm counting on regression towards the mean.

Crosby's Pens and Krecji's Bruins have both been knocked out of the playoffs...

And once again to remind the Nash-apologists, Datsyuk began his playoff career in a third line checking role on stacked red wings teams. He wasn't the Datsyuk you know today back when that was happening.

 

[Swept In Seven]

Compete level, he lacks it.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

OK.

In 2010-11, Ranger fans are convinced that Gaborik dog-****ing the playoffs was due to an injury. He went and played in the World Championships after the series was over.

In 2012, Gaborik injured his shoulder some time in the Ottawa series. Most of the games after that point are included in his last 26 playoff games.

Nash's wrist and back injuries from last season are given no credence by the fans.

/Injury narrative

2010-2011 Gabby had 2 pts, 1 goal and 1 assist in 5 games. If that's dog-**** I'd love for Nash to step up to that level and play like dog-**** himself.

2011-2012 Gabby was dealing with a significant injury, and he still managed to tough out 5 goals and 6 assists in 20 games. Again, I wish Nash could be that terrible.

Nash isn't injured, unless you want to count a missing heart/spine/balls as an injury. I don't. I think that's more of a birth defect.

 

[haveandare]

Crosby's Pens and Krecji's Bruins have both been knocked out of the playoffs...

And once again to remind the Nash-apologists, Datsyuk began his playoff career in a third line checking role on stacked red wings teams. He wasn't the Datsyuk you know today back when that was happening.

The point is that they're proven playoff performers who are having cold spells of similar length to Nash's current one. The point is that this could be a slump and not a indication of him somehow magically losing all his skills at once. Reading people's complaints, they sound exactly like the same stuff we heard about Richards when he was playing poorly, Step when he was playing poorly, MSL when he was playing poorly...notice a trend?

I love how people still throw about (blank)-apologist like it's some horrible insult. Like people didn't end up eating crow by calling all sorts of posters apologists for all sorts of players only to have those players bounce back as posters expected them too.

People on this forum literally rediscover the concept of a slump multiple times a year. I'm sure this time is the one that it's all real though, and this is the time that statistical reality just doesn't matter, unlike every other time before.

 

[ImIdaho]

The point is that they're proven playoff performers who are having cold spells of similar length to Nash's current one. The point is that this could be a slump and not a indication of him somehow magically losing all his skills at once. Reading people's complaints, they sound exactly like the same stuff we heard about Richards when he was playing poorly, Step when he was playing poorly, MSL when he was playing poorly...notice a trend?

I love how people still throw about (blank)-apologist like it's some horrible insult. Like people didn't end up eating crow by calling all sorts of posters apologists for all sorts of players only to have those players bounce back as posters expected them too.

People on this forum literally rediscover the concept of a slump multiple times a year. I'm sure this time is the one that it's all real though, and this is the time that statistical reality just doesn't matter, unlike every other time before.

Slump?

Guy, a player first needs to set some kind of benchmark to gauge this supposed slump.

 

[Thirty One]

Look, 31, if I had 20 dart throws at the board compared to just 3 for the person I was playing against, yo'd expect me to get the higher total just by sheer probability.

But that doesn't really take into account much of the context. If I'm throwing darts backwards with my eyes closed, it's entirely possible that a decent darts player could outscore me.

That's what Nash is doing to you? Throwing darts backwards with his eyes closed?

It's a small sample size, but Nash has been without production in his entire playoff career. If Lundqvist had 5 playoff wins, it wouldn't matter if the sample size was relatively small, people would say he wasn't the goaltender in the playoffs that he was in the regular season.

I agree, people would say that. People are idiots, though.

I understand, I'm in the minority here. The NHL is a results based business, despite all the external factors that go into those results.

When Corey Perry shoots for the season, he gets a big trophy for it, even though it's obvious he shouldn't expect to be that fortunate again. When Sean Bergenheim shoots 19.6% in a playoff run, he gets a $13 million deal. When goalies stop 98% of Sidney Crosby's shots in the playoffs, he's a problem for the first time in his career.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

The point is that they're proven playoff performers who are having cold spells of similar length to Nash's current one. The point is that this could be a slump and not a indication of him somehow magically losing all his skills at once. Reading people's complaints, they sound exactly like the same stuff we heard about Richards when he was playing poorly, Step when he was playing poorly, MSL when he was playing poorly...notice a trend?

I love how people still throw about (blank)-apologist like it's some horrible insult. Like people didn't end up eating crow by calling all sorts of posters apologists for all sorts of players only to have those players bounce back as posters expected them too.

People on this forum literally rediscover the concept of a slump multiple times a year. I'm sure this time is the one that it's all real though, and this is the time that statistical reality just doesn't matter, unlike every other time before.

I don't really get your point from a philosophical perspective. As in, it seems you want to give Nash credit for a hypothetical good stretch of playoffs that may or may not ever happen as a Ranger. I get you're trying to show that that hypothetical good stretch is more likely than some are saying, but it's still you making excuses and apologizing for a guy who on his own merits has been bad.

The two camps seem to be yours, as I outlined above. And the other, to which I'd put myself squarely in, that says look at what he's done that seems to be most likely who he is.

If we were to take these concepts and apply it to other things, I think you'd usually be in my camp.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I understand, I'm in the minority here. The NHL is a results based business, despite all the external factors that go into those results.

It's also an effort business - and I'm not seeing the effort at all. It's gotten to the point where the announcers go crazy when they actually see Nash do something - anything - that shows effort and responsibility.

 

[Pizza]

I still cannot get over the fact that we traded for him when all we needed was a guy who performs in the play offs. The guy had 4 play off games in 10 seasons before joining the Rangers.

Yeah. This was something I tried pointing out. It just did not resonate with folks.

"He's Rick Nash, blah, blah, blah."

It's still happening and he's what 0-30 now?

Again, I'd love to see him come around and make me eat every word I've written against him.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

My take on Rick Nash:

http://rangersunlimited.com/2014/05/15/what-to-make-of-rick-nash/

You know what poor hockey teams do? They give the opposition possession, time, and space. Not many of those bad teams in the playoffs.

Dont get me wrong, I dont think Nash needs to be traded/scratched, but I think theres a lot more going on here than referencing regular season statistics and assuming he'll come back to the mean.

I just simply do not think Nash is a versatile hockey player and is not good enough at adjusting when his possession, time, and space are taken away....which tends to happen in the playoffs, against good teams.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

It's also an effort business - and I'm not seeing the effort at all. It's gotten to the point where the announcers go crazy when they actually see Nash do something - anything - that shows effort and responsibility.

Hes hitting and playing OK on the defensive side of the puck, which has been heavily overrated. But hes a discombobulated mess on offense.

Dont think its an effort thing, I think Nash would greatly benefit from now trying to overdo things. See puck, get puck, take puck the the net.

 

[*Bob Richards*]

I'm not asking for Nash to break Kurri's goal record. Just maybe outscore someone like Brian Boyle.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I agree that his extreme lack of production is partially bad luck and should improve over a larger sample. It's not like all of Nash's past goals were from extremely high percentage chances in tight. He has scored a lot in the past on the type of shots he is getting now that just aren't going in.

But when I watch even this video, I see a lot of things that I don't see anymore. It's not all due to a cold shooting %. And I am not calling it a lack of "effort" either. He is not controlling the puck, getting into open lanes, or exploding on the rush, the way he has in the past. I would certainly buy into a lack of confidence being a big piece of the issue.

 

[Cake or Death]

I really wonder how much a role the concussions play. Anyone who saw Lindros play, for instance, you remember how night and day different Lindros was pre and post-concussions? Lindros was two entirely different players. Guys tend to score, especially in the playoffs, because they go hard to the net. Old Nash would do that. Look at current Nash and look at pre-concussion Nash in the video. Watching from like 40 seconds on, the dude never hesitated to go to the net to try to score. Now, not so much...



It's hard to say what's truly going on, and he was never the all out crash the net guy, but the guy we're looking at now does not look like the same player as he once did, a guy who did used to go hard to the net if needed. Idk how to call it, but when I look at how some guys are affected by concussions, it's not easy to judge how that might or might now mess with someone's head.

 

[Mikos87]

Watching those videos, the majority of those goals were scored from the slot area, face off dots in. He isn't going to those parts of the ice and shooting.

The Habs don't have a big defense, and Emelin isn't a Bortuzzo, Scuderi or Orpik type of player. I think Nash drives the net more this series, and hopefully that results in a couple of goals. He's going to have 3 days to recouperate, get his head on straight and hopefully take it from there.

Rick Nash, concussion and all, fought twice this year, so to me, something has to spark him emotionally. Maybe Arniel can chew him out before every game, or Ulfie, or whoever, just light a fire under his ass.

 

[haveandare]

I don't really get your point from a philosophical perspective. As in, it seems you want to give Nash credit for a hypothetical good stretch of playoffs that may or may not ever happen as a Ranger. I get you're trying to show that that hypothetical good stretch is more likely than some are saying, but it's still you making excuses and apologizing for a guy who on his own merits has been bad.

The two camps seem to be yours, as I outlined above. And the other, to which I'd put myself squarely in, that says look at what he's done that seems to be most likely who he is.

If we were to take these concepts and apply it to other things, I think you'd usually be in my camp.

To put my point as simply as I can: Nash has 300+ goals over ~800 games in the regular season. His worst goal scoring regular season in almost a decade (not counting the lockout as a full season) was this year, when he scored 26 goals. I just don't think that the difference in play from the regular season to the playoffs is so great that someone goes from being that good of a goal scorer to this bad. Something is wrong with him. What's wrong? Well, hard to say. What's the most likely? A slump. We saw multiple Ranger players go through them this year. Nash's is happening at the worst time, and it's building on itself because everyone is aware that the timing is so bad. I'm not making excuses. I'm talking about what is likely in the future rather than dwelling on what has sucked in the past. I don't disagree that he's been bad at all and I have absolutely no care to apologize on his behalf.

I'm not saying that a hypothetical good stretch is going to come, I'm saying that what we're seeing right now is a bad stretch, and his play, specifically his shooting % will go back toward his career average as it happens for so many players in funks every year.

I'll agree that what he's done is who he is. I just don't think it's certain that it's all he can, and will, be.

 

[Pizza]

Spent some time looking at footage from the 1st round game 7. I did not watch that game. Nash had himself a pretty decent period. Two prime chances and a key defensive play towards the end.

So, occasionally signs of life for him. Just wish he could carry it from one game to the next....and oh yeah, score a goal. Once in a while.

 

[NikC]

come on Rick the time is now. forget the past, play the way you know you can and establish yourself as a dominant scoring force.

If Nash can get going, with the return of Krieder, we can turn MTL upside down....

 

[zuckera1]

I think some people here need to come to peace with the fact that some guys simply have bad years. You add that to the concussion impact and this is what we end up with.

He hasn't been as bad as his production indicates. In my view, his playoff production is on-par with his production last year (granted, he hasn't scored) but his defense is much better this year than last year.

Someone said he's hit, what 3 posts? I also agree that he's been robbed countless times by opposing goaltenders. To me, I've seen this level of snakebittenness (word?) happen all year for him. He makes a great pass to Stepan who's stoned by the goalie. He hits the post. He gets robbed himself.

To me, if he got average luck/bounces he would've scored 3-4 goals and we're probably not having this discussion (at this level, at least).

Guarantee he'll come back healthy and score 30-30 next year, ala Gaborik in his 3rd season here after a rough 2nd that was plagued by injuries.

 

[Inferno]

most of nashs goals are breakaways/cherrypicking. he's not doing that because hes trying to play a sound defensive game. its just so obvious out there watching him.

he used to be jaromir jagr like in his defensive play..ie completely nonexistant.

now, for the playoffs, hes decided to do a complete 180 and focus solely on defense.

i dont get it...but i can see it.

i think when the goals finally start coming for him, they will come in droves...i just hope its this playoff series. we've seen nash be good enough to single handedly carry a team for a stretch...we could really use that.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Maybe Nash should see a sports psychiatrist? Talk about he fear of the concussions... Idk just an idea