Rick Nash Part II

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Certainly, he was going through an identity crisis, but Dubinsky showed flashes of versatility and attitude. Nash, despite his rep has proved to be wholly one dimensional, and some may point to his concussion.

And, to add that, Dubi has been better suited to adapt to the tight checking of the playoffs. He excels at using his size to protect the puck and is not afraid to drive to the net or get to the middle of the ice, two areas in which Nash has struggled.
 
Nash is incredibly weak on the puck, he gets knocked over waaaaaaaay too frequently for someone his size. And he always stays down longer than necessary. I don't get him.
 
And, to add that, Dubi has been better suited to adapt to the tight checking of the playoffs. He excels at using his size to protect the puck and is not afraid to drive to the net or get to the middle of the ice, two areas in which Nash has struggled.

I watched all of the Jackets playoff games. And I'm really trying to be as honest as I can. It's not even close. You could not help but notice Dubinsky. The Jackets' fans are ecstatic about him and for good reason. He is totally deserving the A they gave him there.
 
I did not call him a fat lazy bum.

I called him a very talented player that fails to make an impact. Of course he's supposed to back check. People make that sound like some incredibly transformational event. Hardly. It's what's expected from every player in the playoffs.

If he had been lazy, AV would put him in the press box certainly.

I could see people supporting him had he been constantly in front of the net causing havoc and just having his chances stopped time after time. That's not what happened.

Nash tried to play his regular season style in the playoffs and failed miserably. Given the much tighter two way play, Nash had to make adjustments and he could not make it work.

For this player, for what he's making, for what we gave up for him, it's completely unacceptable. This is what Rick Nash was brought here to do. To make a difference. To be the guy that makes people like yours truly forget the likes of Brandon Dubinsky because Rick Nash is just such an obvious upgrade.

Rick Nash is NOT the reason the Rangers made the Stanley Cup Finals or even a very big part of the reason. That distinction goes to Hank, McD and a few others. Nash being somewhere near the bottom of the list.

I never said that you said that - but that's what the person I replied to with the facepalm said.
 
I was defending Nash a lot the last two months, because I thought he was working hard. But 3 goals in 25 playoff games equates to 10 goals in an entire regular season - IF he plays all 82 games.

That's like...uh...yikes.
 
When Nash first came to the rangers he played like a beast. Eve though he didnt score a ton of goals right away he used his big body and speed to really keep teh defensemen on tehir heels. then the concussions started and now he is afraid to use his big frame and got to the net.
 
When Nash first came to the rangers he played like a beast. Eve though he didnt score a ton of goals right away he used his big body and speed to really keep teh defensemen on tehir heels. then the concussions started and now he is afraid to use his big frame and got to the net.

But he's not afraid to use his big body to dive all over the place playing nice defense, and to throw some huge hits?
 

Yep. Datsyuk. For those convinced that Nash is a lost cause, I wonder how many of you - if you were Red Wings fans - would have been calling for Datsyuk's head after FOUR playoffs (one more than Nash) with worse performance than Nash has had thus far. And how much that could have been one of the worst trades in history if Holland ever actually considered dumping Datsyuk because of some perceived playoff choking... instead Holland stuck with him and it has paid off big time.

Granted it was certainly a bit of a different situation in that Datsyuk was making $1.5 million and then ~$3 million before he got his big pay day, part before the cap and part after it was implemented, so the Wings weren't initially feeling the weight of a highly paid player underperforming in the same way NYR has with Nash. But it also isn't like Datsyuk was relegated to the 4th line or was some scrub at that point in his career. He quickly emerged as an elite regular season player, and just struggled to find his way in the playoffs. For much of the period he struggled in the playoffs, he was playing on a line with Brett Hull and then later getting top line minutes.

Nash needs to figure out how to score goals and be effective in the playoffs. But I think the trade talk is a bit pre-emptive. After having a few days to sleep on it and remove myself from the emotion of being disappointed, I think there are some things to be hopeful about. First three series? Defensively good. Offensively, statistically he wasn't bad - in terms of shots - but he wasn't doing what he needed to do to put himself in the best positions to score. He wasn't elevating his play as you need to do in the playoffs. But I felt his play in the SCF gives me a bit of hope that he may have been starting to figure it out. Even though he didn't get the goals, he was doing a lot of the right things offensively. He drove the net more, he was throwing the body more, he was looking like he was fighting for the puck more than he had in the other series. Again; didn't get it done and that's all that matters - but he wasn't looking like, for instance, Brad Richards did. Not even close. So I'm willing to see how it goes next season.


Again Datsyuk's first playoff games were even worse than Nash's have been:

Rick Nash's first 41 playoff games over 3 playoffs: 41 GP, 5 goals, 13 assists, 18 points. 0.12 goals per game. 0.439 points per game.


Pavel Datsyuk's first 42 playoff games over 4 playoffs: 42 GP, 3 goals, 12 assists, 15 points. 0.07 goals per game. 0.357 points per game.

Datsyuk's next 103 PO games over 8 playoffs: 103 GP, 36 goals, 57 assists, 93 points. 0.35 goals per game, 0.903 points per game.



And disclaimer: Not trying to say Nash is, or will be, anywhere near Datsyuk's level. But if he can find his way in the playoffs and improve upon his scoring there, this team is a very different animal in the postseason. Sometimes it takes a little bit of patience and some time. He is quickly running out of time to prove himself though.
 
I agree. If i'm trading Nash it's because Stamkos is a UFA and I want cap space or something.

However, and I still don't think people realize it, but Kreider-Stepan-Nash was our only line to have positive possession numbers going against the most elite players in the world. Brass-Poo-Zuke did as well, but they were going against easier competition. If Nash was scoring our top line would've had a DOMINANT post-season.

Yea, uh this might have been true early on in the playoffs... but I started to notice the teams were matching up their top players against the Zucc line more often than Nash. LA certainly did that. When LA had last change, I frequently saw Zucc, not Nash, going up against Doughty and Kopitar.

I'm mad at the dude for not scoring, because his inability to score might have lost us the Cup, but to trade him just to sign Stastny or something is nuts.

Agreed on this though. Same goes for pursuing Spezza; wrong side of 30, injury risk, and another soft playmaker we don't need. Could maybe be convinced of ROR, but only if his cap hit didn't change significantly - which if his negotiations recently are any indicator - is unlikely.
 
Nash is better than Zuccarello #micdrop

don't know if many would agree with this. The expectation of Nash precedes himself. I'm not a big Nash fan and note his deficiencies, but somehow this guy did score 26 goals during the season, and I think opposing defenses are looking for him more than Zucc. Not a knock on Zucc, and not a huge endorsement of Nash, but I think teams rather Zucc beat them than Nash. I'm not in the locker rooms, but I'm just guessing.
 
If Anisimov was still a Ranger, which current Ranger would sit in favor of him? Would Dubi play wing or center on this team? Can't remember, did Dubi score more goals than him, or was he more of a setup guy? Would Dubi be a better playmaker than the centermen the Rangers currently have? I can see the desire to have those two players here instead of Nash, but how would it have all shaken out? And as bad as Nash was, and as bad as Richards was, two players with significant ice time, this team did go to the Stanley Cup finals and competed; no guarantee a team that would likely look a fair amount different would have been any better. I know it's tempting to look at what happened and than transplant different people into different roles and say it would've been better, as in the Rangers would be a shoo-in, but it's not that easy. What would be a guarantee, however, all else being equal, the cap situation would likely be a bit more palatable.

Richards
 
If that's the case, I'd really love to have two thirty goal scorers on the first line. Would you not?

Plus, I love Kreider as a player, but I'll believe he can put up 30 when he does it.

Nash didn't even score 30 goals this year. Including the playoffs he had 28. You are completely crazy if you think 38 points in the regular season is a first line player. He's a 3rd liner paid like a superstar. I'd rather have Dubinski and Anisimov than Nash, and I've said it since day one.
 
Nash didn't even score 30 goals this year. Including the playoffs he had 28. You are completely crazy if you think 38 points in the regular season is a first line player. He's a 3rd liner paid like a superstar. I'd rather have Dubinski and Anisimov than Nash, and I've said it since day one.

26 goals in 65 games is bonafide first line production. You can scream "39 points!!!!" all you want, but that is a fact. I love how you conveniently leave out that he missed a decent chunk of games.
 
Criticize him for lack of production all you want, but I just didn't see a "fat, lazy bum" out there on the ice. I saw a guy giving it his all and coming up short.

He gave nothing, he is a fat lazy bum, and if I was Sather, I'd tell him "If you don't score 50 goals and carry this team on your back this post season, I will ship you off to Russia on loan and ruin your North American Hockey Career forever".
 
26 goals in 65 games is bonafide first line production. You can scream "39 points!!!!" all you want, but that is a fact. I love how you conveniently leave out that he missed a decent chunk of games.

3 goals in 25 playoff games is horribad for a guy who gets paid $7.8 million a year. It's an abortion of a performance, one that would get anyone else in any other profession fired.
 
26 goals in 65 games is bonafide first line production. You can scream "39 points!!!!" all you want, but that is a fact. I love how you conveniently leave out that he missed a decent chunk of games.

he also scored 21 goals in 44 games the prior year. Make no mistake, this guy didn't earn his paycheck and his production in the playoffs left a lot to be desired, but he still is a talent that other teams likely focus on, which creates room for his linemates, who didn't always capitalize on the chances.
 
Yep. Datsyuk. For those convinced that Nash is a lost cause, I wonder how many of you - if you were Red Wings fans - would have been calling for Datsyuk's head after FOUR playoffs (one more than Nash) with worse performance than Nash has had thus far. And how much that could have been one of the worst trades in history if Holland ever actually considered dumping Datsyuk because of some perceived playoff choking... instead Holland stuck with him and it has paid off big time.

Granted it was certainly a bit of a different situation in that Datsyuk was making $1.5 million and then ~$3 million before he got his big pay day, part before the cap and part after it was implemented, so the Wings weren't initially feeling the weight of a highly paid player underperforming in the same way NYR has with Nash. But it also isn't like Datsyuk was relegated to the 4th line or was some scrub at that point in his career. He quickly emerged as an elite regular season player, and just struggled to find his way in the playoffs. For much of the period he struggled in the playoffs, he was playing on a line with Brett Hull and then later getting top line minutes.

Nash needs to figure out how to score goals and be effective in the playoffs. But I think the trade talk is a bit pre-emptive. After having a few days to sleep on it and remove myself from the emotion of being disappointed, I think there are some things to be hopeful about. First three series? Defensively good. Offensively, statistically he wasn't bad - in terms of shots - but he wasn't doing what he needed to do to put himself in the best positions to score. He wasn't elevating his play as you need to do in the playoffs. But I felt his play in the SCF gives me a bit of hope that he may have been starting to figure it out. Even though he didn't get the goals, he was doing a lot of the right things offensively. He drove the net more, he was throwing the body more, he was looking like he was fighting for the puck more than he had in the other series. Again; didn't get it done and that's all that matters - but he wasn't looking like, for instance, Brad Richards did. Not even close. So I'm willing to see how it goes next season.


Again Datsyuk's first playoff games were even worse than Nash's have been:

Rick Nash's first 41 playoff games over 3 playoffs: 41 GP, 5 goals, 13 assists, 18 points. 0.12 goals per game. 0.439 points per game.


Pavel Datsyuk's first 42 playoff games over 4 playoffs: 42 GP, 3 goals, 12 assists, 15 points. 0.07 goals per game. 0.357 points per game.

Datsyuk's next 103 PO games over 8 playoffs: 103 GP, 36 goals, 57 assists, 93 points. 0.35 goals per game, 0.903 points per game.



And disclaimer: Not trying to say Nash is, or will be, anywhere near Datsyuk's level. But if he can find his way in the playoffs and improve upon his scoring there, this team is a very different animal in the postseason. Sometimes it takes a little bit of patience and some time. He is quickly running out of time to prove himself though.

Comparing Datsyuk and Nash is like comparing Gretzky to Mike Ricci. Nash can't hold Datsyuk's jock and never could.
 
Comparing Datsyuk and Nash is like comparing Gretzky to Mike Ricci. Nash can't hold Datsyuk's jock and never could.

That you could read the entirety of my post (not to mention the one that haveandare was responding to) and come to this conclusion about the point I was making either tells me you're being purposefully and unnecessarily combative, or your literacy / reading comprehension skills are severely lacking. I'll leave it at that.
 
That you could read the entirety of my post (not to mention the one that haveandare was responding to) and come to this conclusion about the point I was making either tells me you're being purposefully and unnecessarily combative, or your literacy / reading comprehension skills are severely lacking. I'll leave it at that.

I think your comparison is a moot point. Datsyuk wasn't 30 years old when he had his breakout playoff season, he was 26. Nash has already passed his peak goal scoring age and has nowhere near the motor Datsyuk has. Nash's problems are not fixable by either a good center or good coaching. The only person who can fix Rick Nash is Rick Nash. And he's still going around in interviews saying "I played pretty good I think". There's a reason why Columbus fans were happy to rid themselves of him and why Detroit fans never really wanted to get rid of Datsyuk. Datsyuk pretty much replaced Yzerman's production from day 1 of Yzerman's retirement.
 
That you could read the entirety of my post (not to mention the one that haveandare was responding to) and come to this conclusion about the point I was making either tells me you're being purposefully and unnecessarily combative, or your literacy / reading comprehension skills are severely lacking. I'll leave it at that.

Also, Mods, no infraction necessary for the personal attack there. I wasn't butthurt by it or upset, and would not like an infraction on this guys record. Infractions are, in my opinion, stupid.
 
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