Revisiting the Disastrous Kotkaniemi Offer Sheet By Carolina

[bleedgreen]

I don't think so.

The canes and KK essentially negotiated a pending UFA contract.

They had to sign him for more than Montreal would sign him for, they didn’t want to do what the Habs did with Aho. He got less on the extension because it was understood that they were overpaying him to get him out of Montreal on the offer sheet, presumably they all agreed ahead of time that the extension would be for a more reasonable amount.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

We paid it under the table to Jake Guentzel. Everyone involved will deny it obviously, as they should.

But Guentzel didn't make them win it all...

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

I'm pretty sure everyone, including the Canes GM, now sees the whole ordeal as a mistake.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

The likelihood of those picks being that is very low. Teams wouldn’t trade picks for deadline rentals if they really believed their pick would turn into a star. Nice logical fallacy to use the low percentage best case scenario as a way to win an argument in your head.

What are the chances those picks turn into busts and buyouts?

 

[waitin425]

Man, I loved KK in our playoff run. I thought (wrongly) he would be as good as Suzuki or better. I thought we had our 1-2 centre punch for the future.

I am soooooooo very glad I was wrong.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

What are the chances those picks turn into busts and buyouts?

Idk. But in the end we’ll get over 200+ games out of kk which is about 200 more than we likely get out of those picks at this point. His buyout is inconsequential so the likelihood of such an event occurring seems not worthy of discussing

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Idk. But in the end we’ll get over 200+ games out of kk which is about 200 more than we likely get out of those picks at this point. His buyout is inconsequential so the likelihood of such an event occurring seems not worthy of discussing

You got 200+ games out of an overpaid player when that money could have been spent on a more productive player. Canes absolutely mis-managed their cap by taking on KK.

 

[Derailed75]

Don't Habs fans have really important things to discuss other than a playerthats not on their team, but rather on a consistent playoff and cup contender team?

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

You got 200+ games out of an overpaid player when that money could have been spent on a more productive player. Canes absolutely mis-managed their cap by taking on KK.

That’s your assumption and well we know what happens when you assume. Canes have always had a ton of cap space each offseason. Kk prevented nothing

 

[Junohockeyfan]

That’s your assumption and well we know what happens when you assume. Canes have always had a ton of cap space each offseason. Kk prevented nothing

So KK's caphit couldn't have been put to better use (say a goalie?)?

Ya, go ahead and bury your head in the sand like that. It could part of the reason the Canes didn't progress in the post season.

 

[elmaco]

I don't think so.

The canes and KK essentially negotiated a pending UFA contract.

This has been already talked through, see earlier posts. Especially the one from Warrioroftime

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

So KK's caphit couldn't have been put to better use (say a goalie?)?

Ya, go ahead and bury your head in the sand like that. It could part of the reason the Canes didn't progress in the post season.

i see making up narratives to support an assumed talking point is your thing.

Since KK was offer sheeted what goalie did the hurricanes miss on? the goalie UFA market has been awful for 3 years running. Since Don Waddell took over the only two goalies you could make an argument that were available in the market was markstrom, who we went after but Calgary offered and extra year, and Ullmark who has excellent regular season stats but isnt much of an improvement over "the reason the didnt progress in the post season." Who else did we miss on, especially since kk joined the canes?

any other matters you wish to hypothesize incorrectly?

 

[Slats432]

I am an Oilers fan, and it was a terrible idea to OS KK, and that money was poorly spent. You would almost think his $6M in 2021-22 might have been better used to help get them some help to win the cup when they were a 116 point team. That deadline you could have had one of Toffoli, Giordano, Hagel, Manson, Chiarot, H. Lindholm, Giroux, Hamonic, Nick Paul, Kulak.....and maybe another cup to celebrate. The double down to sign him for the long term deal was another bad decision.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

i see making up narratives to support an assumed talking point is your thing.

Since KK was offer sheeted what goalie did the hurricanes miss on? the goalie UFA market has been awful for 3 years running. Since Don Waddell took over the only two goalies you could make an argument that were available in the market was markstrom, who we went after but Calgary offered and extra year, and Ullmark who has excellent regular season stats but isnt much of an improvement over "the reason the didnt progress in the post season." Who else did we miss on, especially since kk joined the canes?

any other matters you wish to hypothesize incorrectly?

You are hypothesizing that there were no players available that KK's caphit could have been better spent on. That argument is futile. There are tons of players they could have acquired that would have been better suited to the Canes pursuit. On top of it all, the Canes gave up a 1st round pick +.

There is no justification for the KK acquisition and re-signing when you take into consideration hindsight. Hindsight shows it was an idiotic play.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

You are hypothesizing that there were no players available that KK's caphit could have been better spent on. That argument is futile. There are tons of players they could have acquired that would have been better suited to the Canes pursuit. On top of it all, the Canes gave up a 1st round pick +.

There is no justification for the KK acquisition and re-signing when you take into consideration hindsight. Hindsight shows it was an idiotic play.

who was available in net? you got nothing.

moving goal posts is your thing too

 

[patnyrnyg]

The offer sheet wasn't a disaster. Carolina's pro scouts targeted him and probably thought Montreal wasn't utilizing him properly. Took a risk. It didn't work out. Happens often in the NHL.

The extension was the disaster. Great example of sunk cost fallacy.

Obviously, I am just speculating. But, I am definitely with those who believe Carolina did it just as payback for the Aho offer sheet. They did so expecting Montreal to match just like they did with Aho.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

who was available in net? you got nothing.

moving goal posts is your thing too

Plenty of players available that offseason that could have helped the Canes. And the Canes could have traded what they had given up for KK for a bonafide #1 goalie.

Hypothetically speaking, there was plenty the Canes could have done with the picks and with the cap rather than wasting it on KK. Its common sense. The problem is, you don't want to accept that the Canes GM shot himself in the foot with the poaching of KK and subsequent re-signing.

KK was a bust. It was a bad move. End of stroy.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Plenty of players available that offseason that could have helped the Canes. And the Canes could have traded what they had given up for KK for a bonafide #1 goalie.

Hypothetically speaking, there was plenty the Canes could have done with the picks and with the cap rather than wasting it on KK. Its common sense. The problem is, you don't want to accept that the Canes GM shot himself in the foot with the poaching of KK and subsequent re-signing.

KK was a bust. It was a bad move. End of stroy.

so avoiding your own point.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

so avoiding your own point.

You are avoiding common sense. I don't need to identify players that would help the Canes. Its common sense that the money and picks could have been better spent on a player(s) instead of KK. You claiming that there was nothing available is idiotic.

I mean, KK is a bust. The acquisition and signing was a complete disaster.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

You are avoiding common sense. I don't need to identify players that would help the Canes. Its common sense that the money and picks could have been better spent on a player(s) instead of KK.

I mean, KK is a bust. The acquisition and signing was a complete disaster.

you do though. if you are going to say they should have used the money on a goalie then name the goalie and how kk's cap hit prevented the move. until then your using vague talking points that can not be proven or disproven to pretend here.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

you do though. if you are going to say they should have used the money on a goalie then name the goalie and how kk's cap hit prevented the move. until then your using vague talking points that can not be proven or disproven to pretend here.

There's too many players to name that would have brought more value than KK. Its a complete waste of time. The premise is what matters.

Why are you evading the point that the Canes could have done much better with the picks and cap than acquiring a bust? Answer that question rather than evading it..

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

There's too many players to name that would have brought more value than KK. Its a complete waste of time. The premise is what matters.

Why are you evading the point that the Canes could have done much better with the picks and cap than acquiring a bust? Answer that question rather than evading it..

im not avoiding it. you cant pinpoint one to prove and how kk was the reason. typical though

tkachuk- pursued
ep40- pursued
laine and eichel- half hearted pursuit

patches- pursued
orlov- pursued
bunting- pursued

countless others went after who we dont even know and kk didnt affect a 1

 

[Junohockeyfan]

im not avoiding it. you cant pinpoint one to prove and how kk was the reason. typical though

Yeah, you are avoiding it. Because you know your argument is flawed.

You are basically saying there are no players in 2021 and 2022 offseasons that the canes could have signed or acquired (using the picks and capspace) that would have provided more value than KK, who was a total bust.

That's ludicrous.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Yeah, you are avoiding it. Because you know your argument is flawed.

You are basically saying there are no players in 2021 and 2022 offseasons that the canes could have signed or acquired (using the picks and capspace) that would have provided more value than KK, who was a total bust.

That's ludicrous.

look at those FA classes and get back to. ya got nothing

ps we pursued a few people in the 21 class before ever going for KK

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

People need to understand that the offer sheet when offered , habs fans were happy to not give tha tmoney to KK. Then Carolina re-extended him with a long contract and bad terms for a guy who was never proven.

Also habs wasted a 3rd OA but still got 1st back which sadly ended with Dvorak but I would rather have Dvorak over Kotkaniemi. Also that Dvorak trade made Bergevin our last GM get fired which is probably the biggest W the habs needed to finally do a full rebuild whos going well and we will probably manage to trade Dvorak for a 3rd picks perhaps 2nd depending on his next season.