Revisiting the Disastrous Kotkaniemi Offer Sheet By Carolina

[UED]

I thought a 1st + 3rd was a weird overpayment for the worst player on our team. It was between him and Gustafsson.

 

[HuGo Sham]

Was the offersheet Dundon's doing? He seems like a meddling piece of shit when he wants to be type of billionaire.

"So, where did he make all his money? Lost in all the typical bluster that occurs whenever a team gets a young new owner—“He loves business! He works hard! He’s gonna shake things up around here!”—is the fact that Dundon could afford to buy the team because he made a fortune ripping off vulnerable people. Here’s a paragraph from a recent, adulatory that is somehow presented as a reason to trust Dundon":

Deadspin | The Hurricanes' New Owner Got Rich Off Subprime Loans<em></em>

Deadspin | The Hurricanes' New Owner Got Rich Off Subprime Loans<em></em>

deadspin.com

 

[bleedgreen]

NHL GMs make a lot of money and are living a dream. Of course they will follow the instructions of their owner. They won’t agree, and might even voice those concerns behind closed doors. But a GM who wants another job will never voice criticism of their owner publicly. So we will likely never know that the Canes’ owner was the one insisting upon going after JK because of anger he felt over the Aho offer sheet.

Waddell is 65 and has made his money over a long career. He's considered an extremely popular and knowledgeable guy around the league. He’s lived his dream and doesn’t have stars in his eyes. The idea that his owner walked all over him to offer sheet KK, and kept his mouth shut because he was afraid to lose his job is so for removed from reality I don’t know which way to point you back. Not only did he not complain about getting walked over he lied about it!

He isn’t afraid of Dundon, he could have another good job in the league by July. Both sides have said they attempted to figure out a trade. That alone kind of kills the whole revenge sheet concept. We do know what really happened because the story has already been told. The narrative people love to believe is all that carries on. You choose to believe that because you want to. That’s your business and I’ll move on.

 

[MaxDummy]

I guess I'm the only one still seeing potential in KK.

 

[Guess]

I

Kotakniemi's playoff stats: 10 GP 0 G 1 A and had 27 points in the regular season this year all for $4,8M cap hit. Provided basically 0 offense in the playoffs.

Carolina let Vincent Trocheck go and rolled with KK. Trocheck now has 14 points, with 8 against his former team and a few huge points in the clincher.

The move to offer sheet KK started a chain of events that might have closed the Canes' contention window shut, and it all started as a petty PR troll job. This may be one of the most franchise damaging offer sheets we have seen.

Discuss.

I wish we could give awards for posts.

 

[Guess]

Habs fans so caught up in crackling with glee at the Kotkaniemi contract that they forget they had a third overall pick and whiffed so hard on KK that losing him for picks that were used to trade for Christian Dvorak is considered a win.

I haven't seen such a terrible use of a third overall pick since Galchenyuk.

Most Habs fans are well aware that the same crap scouting staff that got us all our bad picks are mostly still under employment now. We're laughing but it hurts, too

 

[Guess]

The offersheet at the time seemed very out of character for the Hurricanes who had made tough but correct decisions about players in the past, and the "we tried trading for the player" just seemed like posturing spin to me.

I think they were really hoping that MB matched, because habs were pretty screwed at center ice without kk.


Nobody revisits the Patrick Roy trade anymore because every habs fan can admit it was a bad move.

Same with the Sergachev for Drouin. Dead horse. Habs got boned.

It was the best thing that could have happened to the Habs. Bergevin was let go shortly after, I'm sure the offer sheet factored in, the Canadiens finally became sellers and started a long awaited rebuild.

 

[Albatros]

I thought a 1st + 3rd was a weird overpayment for the worst player on our team. It was between him and Gustafsson.

It was Merrill and it wasn't close.

 

[Craig Ludwig]

I’m sorry to tell you but Kotkaniemi did not prevent Carolina from getting a goalie. Andersen was literally a Vezina finalist in his first Canes season. The only goalie maybe worth signing in that period was Ullmark who has been an awful playoff performer. The 2C situation I guess, but Trocheck was literally not resigning here no matter how many of you fans ignore this.

Also if you think Carolina is just going to not be competitive after this year you might be as dumb as a tree.

It's great to be competitive...in the regular season...but playoffs is another matter. Carolina is blowing their window of opportunity. And YES, it did prevent them from getting a quality goalie, there's no defending the teenage angst type move by Carolina. In a capped world, it's a huge blunder. You keep repeating that it did not affect their chances to get a goalie, but having that extra six million and combining it with adding a good young forward a la Necas and a pick, there's your goalie. We will never know who because we're not GMs, but I think there could have been possibilities with Saros, Sorokin, Ullmark, Thompson, Luukonnen just to name a few. We pretty well all knew that Andersen was on his last legs.

 

[Whalers Fan]

They do have the Sunbelt Factor though, where players will take about $1 million AAV less because the taxes make up for it.

North Carolina has average tax rates, including a 4.75% state income tax.

 

[Matt Ress]

They do have the Sunbelt Factor though, where players will take about $1 million AAV less because the taxes make up for it.

North Carolina isn't like Tennessee and Florida where there is no state income tax. Although NC's flat 4.5 rate certainly beats NY's high end 10.9 rate (216k NC vs.523k NY on 4.8M income) There's an endless amount of uncertain income and preference factors also.

 

[Svechhammer]

The only people still concerned about this are Habs fans

Seriously, it's bordering in stalker behavior. He's a $4m center who had a down season. Not the end of the world and not the reason we didn't win the Cup.

 

[Bouboumaster]

That offer sheet ended up f***ing everyone involved, but at least Carolina is stucked with Kotkaniemi for 6 more years

 

[Frank Drebin]

The only people still concerned about this are Habs fans

Seriously, it's bordering in stalker behavior. He's a $4m center who had a down season. Not the end of the world and not the reason we didn't win the Cup.

Guilty.

I checked kks stat line and toi after every playoff game

I can't help it

 

[Maple Leaf]

Kotakniemi's playoff stats: 10 GP 0 G 1 A and had 27 points in the regular season this year all for $4,8M cap hit. Provided basically 0 offense in the playoffs.

Carolina let Vincent Trocheck go and rolled with KK. Trocheck now has 14 points, with 8 against his former team and a few huge points in the clincher.

The move to offer sheet KK started a chain of events that might have closed the Canes' contention window shut, and it all started as a petty PR troll job. This may be one of the most franchise damaging offer sheets we have seen.

Discuss.

Yea I am not sure why an NHL franchise would sign a player just to troll and it screwed them

 

[Garbageyuk]

The only people still concerned about this are Habs fans

Seriously, it's bordering in stalker behavior. He's a $4m center who had a down season. Not the end of the world and not the reason we didn't win the Cup.

The $20 signing bonus, the Canes’ Twitter campaign, and Canes fans’ constant obnoxious mocking, taunting, and gloating on here until as recently as the beginning of this season will forever invalidate this angle. Take your licks.

 

[newsportsfan123]

It's great to be competitive...in the regular season...but playoffs is another matter. Carolina is blowing their window of opportunity. And YES, it did prevent them from getting a quality goalie, there's no defending the teenage angst type move by Carolina. In a capped world, it's a huge blunder. You keep repeating that it did not affect their chances to get a goalie, but having that extra six million and combining it with adding a good young forward a la Necas and a pick, there's your goalie. We will never know who because we're not GMs, but I think there could have been possibilities with Saros, Sorokin, Ullmark, Thompson, Luukonnen just to name a few. We pretty well all knew that Andersen was on his last legs.

The only goalie available out of that list was Ullmark and Andersen is a significantly better playoff goalie than him. He was not an upgrade.

 

[paragon]

So many threads on this guy - when is the last time there was so much commotion over a sub 30 point scorer?

I guess you weren't here when David Clarkson was still a topic?

 

[Reality Czech]

Also the Bergevin offer sheet to Aho was short, 5 years at the time, it took him directly to ufa so Carolina have to give him the bige pay sooner than what they were hoping for. Bergevin looked like a fool, but the truth is that he's coming out as the 4d chess player here.

4d checkers maybe

 

[NotCommitted]

$4.8m caphit for a 22-year old potential #2C locked through his prime. Bit of a gamble but very understandable one, if it works out they get amazing value and if it doesn't, they are overpaying a 3rd liner or have to move him in a bad deal.

He's yet to turn 24 so it's not like time has ran out, though obviously his season was a major disappointment, but just a year ago he scored 43 points in 82 games averaging 14:44 TOI per game. I feel like more is made out of this simply because the offersheet thing. He's a soon to be 24 year old player with 204th largest caphit in the league who just had a bad year and people act like his contract has doomed Carolina for the forseeable future.

 

[JianYang]

$4.8m caphit for a 22-year old potential #2C locked through his prime. Bit of a gamble but very understandable one, if it works out they get amazing value and if it doesn't, they are overpaying a 3rd liner or have to move him in a bad deal.

He's yet to turn 24 so it's not like time has ran out, though obviously his season was a major disappointment, but just a year ago he scored 43 points in 82 games averaging 14:44 TOI per game. I feel like more is made out of this simply because the offersheet thing. He's a soon to be 24 year old player with 204th largest caphit in the league who just had a bad year and people act like his contract has doomed Carolina for the forseeable future.

I think Carolina definitely expected him to advance quicker given where they are in their competitive cycle.

The buyout part of it doesn't sound disastrous to me. The crappy part is the opportunity cost ie) what they could have done with that cap money, and if that could have finally vaulted them through the mid rounds.

 

[JianYang]

4d checkers maybe

I think this is one of the things that pissed off the canes the most. It's the term. Aho signed because he could hit ufa in his prime if he wanted to. The canes lost control with that offer sheet with respect to buying ufa years.

The other part I'm guessing they didn't like was up front costs in the deal.

 

[Leafs87]

They were so caught up in getting revenge for the Montreal offer sheet to Aho, it's almost as if they completely ignored the player himself. What his strengths and weaknesses were.

Also ignoring that a player who engages in that to help spite his own team is likely not one with high character

 

[bleedgreen]

I think Carolina definitely expected him to advance quicker given where they are in their competitive cycle.

The buyout part of it doesn't sound disastrous to me. The crappy part is the opportunity cost ie) what they could have done with that cap money, and if that could have finally vaulted them through the mid rounds.

I find it fascinating how many people who don’t give a flying fornication about the Canes wring their hands over the lost potential cap usage for them.

Yet not a single Canes fan seems to be remotely concerned about it.

 

[bleedgreen]

I think this is one of the things that pissed off the canes the most. It's the term. Aho signed because he could hit ufa in his prime if he wanted to. The canes lost control with that offer sheet with respect to buying ufa years.

The other part I'm guessing they didn't like was up front costs in the deal.

Aho signed for only about a million more than what he was already making from the offer sheet. The five years length didn’t hurt the Canes, in fact with him being so young the timing of the long extension worked out great. This is a team that hates giving ufa deal to older players, thanks the Habs the Canes for him signed long term as young as they could’ve ever hoped. He’ll only be 34ish when this one expires.

Maybe the Habs can get him then…