Bet you can't name 3 that you saw play. By the way, did you see Park as a Ranger?
Retire Brad Park's #?
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Bet you can't name 3 that you saw play. By the way, did you see Park as a Ranger?
Bet I can: Maloney, Greschner, Sandstrom, Vanbiesbrouck, Patrick to start with. What do I win?
The dunce of the month award.
You are saying that James Patrick and Tomas Sandstrom were better Rangers than Brad Park?
You have a choice between 2 prizes. A plaque identifying you as not understanding the game or one that states you never saw a game.
Your answer is so absurd that I don't even know which Maloney you are talking about.
Ratelleitlikeitis
Registered User
It's not fashionable to give yourself an award, but I'll look the other way Dunce.
Your thought that Brad Park should have his number retired shows a lack of understanding on how merit works in general.
I was asked about ones I've seen play not guys from the 60s and before which were the majority of the names previously mentioned. Context is key.
So, which Maloney is more deserving than Park?
In trying to prove your point you either stated something not even you believe or you are unbelievably unaware of your lack of understanding of the game.
I have also surmised that you never saw Park in a Rangers uniform because the alternative is downright scary.
Voice of someone who knows; you said it well.
We should be grateful we had him in his prime.
Yes, he deserves it.
Answers below cranky old man:
Don
That's a leading question based on false premise but answer is neither
Never saw Park in any uniform live and the alternative doesn't seem scary.
I think highly of Park but promoting a player for a banner who is not in the Rangers top ten in any major stat category, who hasn't won a cup, who played less than 500 games for the club, is not considered a "founder" is a short cut to thinking and indicates a serious lapse in judgement. The only argument I've heard was that he was the 2nd best defenseman in the league and best for a very good club over his 7 years. That's an extremely weak argument, stop your bromance with him it's embarrassing.
Very well said.
I also want to add that it's one thing if someone ups and takes a hike for some extra dough.
It's another thing if a total power hungry *&!# Emile Francis, feeling like he had to make a statement and show this team he would trade you just because he could, moves you against your will.
Park played when there was no leverage.
If you wanted to play hockey, that's it.
You could sit out and deny your services, at which point a GM at some point decided it was worth it to pay you, maybe a little extra.
But that was it.
Park and Ratelle were LOVED by Ranger fans.
Francis moved them to put his personal imprint on the team.
Park/Ratelle should not be penalized.
Answers below cranky old man:
Don
That's a leading question based on false premise but answer is neither
Never saw Park in any uniform live and the alternative doesn't seem scary.
I think highly of Park but promoting a player for a banner who is not in the Rangers top ten in any major stat category, who hasn't won a cup, who played less than 500 games for the club, is not considered a "founder" is a short cut to thinking and indicates a serious lapse in judgement. The only argument I've heard was that he was the 2nd best defenseman in the league and best for a very good club over his 7 years. That's an extremely weak argument, stop your bromance with him it's embarrassing.
You're entitled to your opinion.
Mine is, respectfully, on this issue you're wrong.
The only reason Park is not in that top 10 --- setting aside for the moment that is a legit cutoff point --- is because a petty little man had to try to show he was still large and in charge.
You not acknowledging that is only rubbing salt in the open wound.
Do yourself a favor, and I mean YOU , not to be snarky or whatever, just for your own edification. Hunt down some old tapes, etc. Check out Park actually playing. The guy was truly a very special player.
If you REALLY have a clue as to how special Park was and you still don't want him to have his # retired, we can all have good faith and hopefully a good discussion.
But I gather since you don't appreciate him, it's a non-starter for you.
I wish he wasn't traded and we'd be having a different conversation. No doubt he was all that was billed but facts are facts regarding, in my opinion, reasons that he shouldn't have a banner. Don't know much about the Emile politics angle. Agree that Stats are just part of the recipe, nothing should be an automatic cutoff.
"*&!# Emile Francis"?
Your description of Emile Francis and explanation of his motivation for making that trade indicate that you know little about him or his Rangers team of the 60s/70s. He had been the GM - and usually the coach - for more than a decade when he made that trade early in the 1975-76 season. That was his team, he hardly had to "put his personal imprint on the team." In fact, the 1975-76 season would be his last on Broadway.
The Rangers had been in steady decline since the 1971-72 season when they finished with 109 points; after that they had 102 (72-73), 94 (73-74) and 88 (74-75). In fact, in the playoffs of 1975, they were defeated in the first round by the New York Islanders. You don't think there was reason enough to "shake up" the roster?
Early on during the 1975-76 season, Eddie Giacomin had been waived, and wound up with Detroit. Older fans of the Blueshirts will well recall his first game back at MSG.
After 13 games, with his team 5-7-1, Francis made the big trade. Unfortunately, the Rangers continued to struggle, and "*&!# Emile Francis" was fired.
Your description of Emile Francis and explanation of his motivation for making that trade indicate that you know little about him or his Rangers team of the 60s/70s. He had been the GM - and usually the coach - for more than a decade when he made that trade early in the 1975-76 season. That was his team, he hardly had to "put his personal imprint on the team." In fact, the 1975-76 season would be his last on Broadway.
The Rangers had been in steady decline since the 1971-72 season when they finished with 109 points; after that they had 102 (72-73), 94 (73-74) and 88 (74-75). In fact, in the playoffs of 1975, they were defeated in the first round by the New York Islanders. You don't think there was reason enough to "shake up" the roster?
Early on during the 1975-76 season, Eddie Giacomin had been waived, and wound up with Detroit. Older fans of the Blueshirts will well recall his first game back at MSG.
After 13 games, with his team 5-7-1, Francis made the big trade. Unfortunately, the Rangers continued to struggle, and "*&!# Emile Francis" was fired.
Now that I know you did not see him, it makes a little sense. If Callahan signs here for another two years he will qualify for the rafters under your reasoning. His career will be very similar to Maloney's.
If you are concerned about stats, how many Rangers put up more points while he was here, and he was a defenseman.
What is embarrassing is suggesting that Don Maloney is more deserving than Park.
If there was a vote here on which one deserves it, you would be hard-pressed to get 5% who agree with you.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,766
- 27,709
If your balancing test has Don Maloney more worthy of number retirement than Brad Park, then I think your balancing test needs some work. And FWIW, I don't think Park is deserving.
It would kind of be like if the Dodgers retired Mike Piazza's number. They're still struggling with that question.
It would kind of be like if the Dodgers retired Mike Piazza's number. They're still struggling with that question.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,766
- 27,709
It definitely helps his case. Not sure it's dispositive though. Conn Smythe and it probably gets done without thinking twice.
EDIT: Again, I have awfully high standards for number retirements. I don't think Graves deserved the honor. I'm actually on the fence about Messier too. Leaves for money, only to come back and sink the ship with his ego. He left a very sour taste in my mouth long before he retired.
Last edited:
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,766
- 27,709
Facts can become useless without context, as they are here.
A defenseman with 378 points in 465 games. A forward with 502 points in 653 games. When put in the context of the different positions they played, one is much much more impressive than the other.
And with regards to trophies, a little context helps too. If generational talent Bobby Orr doesn't lace them up, Park wins four Norrises. The voting records support that. If generational talent Wayne Gretzky doesn't lace them up, Don Maloney wins zero Art Rosses, zero Rocket Richards, zero Harts, and so on. The voting records support that also.
Park is miles ahead of Maloney in terms of what he did for this franchise. And I mean miles. That doesn't mean he should get a banner, but context is important when evaluating a player's resume and comparing one player to another.
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