If we're talking Rangers who deserve to have their numbers retired, first on line for me would be Bill Cook and Frank Boucher.
Greschner over Park?
Anyone who ever saw both of them play with that opinion just doesn't get it.
If games played count, Hadfield is more deserving than Graves, too, not to mention I thought he was the more effective player.
The number 7 is retired, in honor of Rod Gilbert. Had it been retired in honor of the Rangers' greatest player, none of the others - Phil Watson, Don Raleigh, Red Sullivan or Gilbert - would have had an opportunity to wear it.
That's why I would prefer it if numbers were not retired, but the deserving players would be honored by having a large jersey-shaped banner, with the name and number, hanging from the rafters. But that would also mean that any player, in this case a Ranger, who wanted to wear a number 1, 7 or 9 or whatever would have to establish himself as a star before being allowed to wear the number. Unlike Evander Kane in Winnipeg.
Lundqvist needs to win a cup to have his number retired.
Lundqvist needs to win a cup to have his number retired.
This i agree with And wish more clubs did this. It would be a way to publicly honor the players who came before without restricting players that come after.
I actually like this. Keep the number in play but honour the talent that used it. Fans still see the deserving name in the rafters...so get JR 19 up there!
Lundqvist needs to win a cup to have his number retired.
As for the original question:
1. No cup for Park.
2. Not with the Rangers long enough.
No jersey retirement. Kills me to apply this to Jean Ratelle, but he also should not have his # retired.
Henrik? The cup rule applies. However, if he plays 18 years in NY, owns all of the club records and such, it should be considered. #7 and #1 did not win cups either.
By the way, we don't win a Cup without Kovalev. He outscored Graves in those playoffs.
Accomplished enough!!!!!!!!!????????????
The second best defenseman in the league over that span behind the best player to ever lace them up, and a hall-of famer, and his best years were as a Ranger, the very same years that propelled him into the Hall.
If you think Messier is considered more of a Ranger than an Oiler anywhere outside of NY you are sadly mistaken, so your argument holds no water.
How many All-Star games did Graves play in as Ranger? How many times was he a top five player at his position? Now compare that to Park while he was a Ranger.
The "cup rule" when evaluating a single player's credentials is one of the dumbest rules to apply
Lundqvist needs to win a cup to have his number retired.
Lundqvist needs to win a cup to have his number retired.
The number 7 is retired, in honor of Rod Gilbert. Had it been retired in honor of the Rangers' greatest player, none of the others - Phil Watson, Don Raleigh, Red Sullivan or Gilbert - would have had an opportunity to wear it.
That's why I would prefer it if numbers were not retired, but the deserving players would be honored by having a large jersey-shaped banner, with the name and number, hanging from the rafters. But that would also mean that any player, in this case a Ranger, who wanted to wear a number 1, 7 or 9 or whatever would have to establish himself as a star before being allowed to wear the number. Unlike Evander Kane in Winnipeg.
I'm not endorsing what went on before the "nostalgia show". More than 2 Rangers' numbers should've been retired and, at this point, retiring them is pointless because of how long it's been overdue.
That doesn't mean that Messier, Richter, and Graves shouldn't be in the rafters. That team overcame 50+ years of futility and soul crushing losses.
But, whether or not Graves' # should be retired or not is a circular argument and, quite simply, a matter of opinion. Really no right or wrong there and I do understand the counter points to him not being there.
Sentimentality aside, and all due respect to his qualities as a person, Graves has no business having his number retired. Like someone else suggested, name a trophy for him if you want. But the #9 banner should be Bathgate's alone.
The only number that I think needs to get up there right now is Jean Ratelle's #19. Hall of Famer. 6th most games as a Ranger, 2nd in goals, 3rd in assists and points. Ahead of Bathgate, Messier and Graves (all of whom have retired numbers) on all four counts. Personally, I think it's disgraceful that he's not up there.
After #19, we can close the books for a while. Maybe Henrik someday, if he earns every penny on this new contract. But nobody else.
We aren't discussing the better talents. We are discussing what the players did for the New York Rangers organization over the span of their entire career. Brad Park was great, and he also wasn't a memeber of the organization long enough to warrant his nunber being shared with Leetch in the rafters. Ratelle would be closer, he spent parts of 16 seasons as a Rangers player. Park spent parts of 8. Ron Greschner spent parts of 16 seasons as a Ranger.
"If games played count". Its not even a question, they do.
And before any of those players get discussed, players who lead this organization to one or more Stanley Cups, then managed the club, need to be discussed.
Bill Cook lead the Rangers to two Stanley Cups as a player and captain. Frank Boucher helped lead them to those same two Cups as a player and then managed and coached them to a third Stanley Cup.
Ivan Johnson was the backbone of the defense for two Cups, in a time when defensemen played nearly entire games. Iron men.
Ott Heller won two Cups and captained them to one of them.
Bryan Hextall Sr. was Andy Bathgate before Andy Bathgate. And has a ring to back it up.
Lynn Patrick helped lead them to the 1940 Cup. If he hadn't had to fight a war he may have had a longer career.
These are the trailblazers for the Rangers. Without these guys there may not be a Rangers club to discuss right now.
Conn Smyth, Lester Patrick, and Tex Rickard need recognition for forming the club. Emile Francis served as coach for a decade. And Herb Brooks needs to be recognized country-wide for his contributions.
Lester Patrick changed the face of hockey. It was his creativity that helped evolve the game to what it is.
All these guys deserve to be in the rafters infinitely more than Brad Park. Who was a great hockey player, and wasn't a Ranger quite long enough to cement any legacy.
Again - only 7 1/4 years as a Ranger. Not long enough, IMHO. Not really disputing that he was second best in the league for quite a few of those years, but there aren't enough years as a Ranger for my liking coupled with the fact that he played elsewhere, for a single team, longer.
The "argument" that you're making is not one that I've made. Messier was here for 10 and there for 12 and won Cups in both places. He was brought in to end the drought and he did. He deserves it in both places and Park deserves it in neither.
It's not really about stats now is it? Banners hang in the rafters because of what guys bring to the team and the franchise over the course of their career.
Was Terry O'Reilly a "top five player" at his position? How about Bernie Ferderko? Keith Magnuson? Etc... It's not always about stats and accolades it's also about heart, soul, and blood for the team. And Graves did have 17 points in the '93-'94 playoffs.