Post-Game Talk: Restarrected - Stars 1, Jets 5

[LowLefty]

Call me crazy but I'd rather have any line outscore their opposition. It's kind of the point.

Who exactly is this 4th line going to wear down and to what end? It's not like they are going to be out there wearing down other teams top lines in order to benefit ours. The notion is antiquated.

This line was built to do both -
And the notion is not antiquated - a heavy forth will have an impact, especially on the D in a long series where hits can take their toll.

 

[Jack722]

We already have a hard hitting shutdown line in the Lowry line. Do we need two?

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I agree -
The optimal would be to have both a scoring line and one that can wear you down.
Hard hitting and capable of potting a few -

Like last year's Jets.

 

[Adam da bomb]

We already have a hard hitting shutdown line in the Lowry line. Do we need two?

It's not bad for 6 weeks. After Ehlers comes back the 4th can be Perrault Copp Roslo. Then apple Lowry Tanev. That gives you a shutdown line and one line with offensive prowess.

 

[Ducky10]

This line was built to do both -
And the notion is not antiquated - a heavy forth will have an impact, especially on the D in a long series where hits can take their toll.

Lemieux-Copp-Appleton was built to score? Sorry, I disagree. The heavy 4th line having a significant impact is overblown imo. They largely will not be playing significant minutes against players who you need to wear down. Having them outscore their opposition is much more impactful.

 

[surixon]

Lemieux-Copp-Appleton was built to score? Sorry, I disagree. The heavy 4th line having a significant impact is overblown imo. They largely will not be playing significant minutes against players who you need to wear down. Having them outscore their opposition is much more impactful.

Agreed. Lemieux may turn out to have above average finish for a fourthblibes but he can't create any offense on his own, Copp is a defensive specialist that struggles to generate and produce offense. The jury is out on Appelton but he looks more like a complimentary offensive player.

It shouldn't be a surprise but the only time the fourth line has produced was when there was at least one skilled offensive player on it to create.

 

[ATLbound]

Lemieux-Copp-Appleton was built to score? Sorry, I disagree. The heavy 4th line having a significant impact is overblown imo. They largely will not be playing significant minutes against players who you need to wear down. Having them outscore their opposition is much more impactful.

I would like to see us add another 2-3 line type guy. If the price is right, can be a C or a winger. And then you can run another scoring line. They are technically the 4th line and can outscore any other teams 4th line. Get their minutes up to 10ish and drop Scheif line down to a normal 1st line of 19-20

 

[tntkid]

The Jets just seem to match up well against the Stars for whatever reason.

We seem to have the Stars number just like Pittsburgh has ours.

 

[LowLefty]

Lemieux-Copp-Appleton was built to score? Sorry, I disagree. The heavy 4th line having a significant impact is overblown imo. They largely will not be playing significant minutes against players who you need to wear down. Having them outscore their opposition is much more impactful.

Didn't say they were built to score -
A heavy 4th that can score can have an impact. Significant? I guess that depends on the minutes and how much impact you consider impactful.
Let's move on shall we - we are not going to agree and the 4th and their minutes are not "significant".

 

[Jet]

Don't buy your argument at all. First you say that the 4th line had a good game, then when its pointed out that they gave up 5 good scoring chances with out creating any, you say its one game in isolation. They may have had a good game in the hitting department but you've got to be remain close in the scoring chances to be considered anywhere near effective.

I'm not selling you anything.
I'm also not saying they are a finished product - I think pretty much every one of our lines has work to do before the playoffs come.
They may have not had the results according to the stats sheet - but the way of playing is what I am subscribing to.
People are always looking to oversimplify the game to scoring chances for and against but there is a lot more to having a successful hockey team than that.
People really don't like to think about the psychology of hockey and it really tends to get undervalued here.

 

[CaptainChef]

Didn't say they were built to score -
A heavy 4th that can score can have an impact. Significant? I guess that depends on the minutes and how much impact you consider impactful.
Let's move on shall we - we are not going to agree and the 4th and their minutes are not "significant".

Common fallacy - 4th liners don't have much if any impact on the eventual outcome. If you have a 4th line that you're not worried about getting put out against top 6 lines (because that happens often enough when you don't have last change), and that you're not worried about having out on the ice for 8-10 mins per, that's HUGE.

 

[ps241]

Missed the first half of the first period and fell asleep before the end of the game!

Helly solid

Some players scored

D allowed only 1 goal

Mo coached like an All Star coach

Jets didn’t seem to miss Ehlers, Buff or Laine

Ok so you fell asleep at 6:00 at night Sip? Were we day drinking a tad?

 

[Skidooboy]

...... The jury is out on Appelton but he looks more like a complimentary offensive player.

Whaaaaaaat? Bro do you even hockey?

Appleton has 15 games....the year after he was a line driver and standout Rookie in the AHL.......and you are calling him a "complimentary player"? like he's shown all he has at 22yrs old?.....


I can't even.

 

[surixon]

Whaaaaaaat? Bro do you even hockey?

Appleton has 15 games....the year after he was a line driver and standout Rookie in the AHL.......and you are calling him a "complimentary player"? like he's shown all he has at 22yrs old?.....


I can't even.

His skill set to me shows a player can finish if given a chance and keep the play moving. If he develops more then great, I'm just not counting on it.

Edit I also don't see what issue is with being a complimentary offensive player that is well rounded. They are pretty valuable to have in your bottom 6.

 

[Positive]

Lemieux-Copp-Appleton was built to score? Sorry, I disagree. The heavy 4th line having a significant impact is overblown imo. They largely will not be playing significant minutes against players who you need to wear down. Having them outscore their opposition is much more impactful.

They can't outskate or out-muscle the players they supposedly need to wear down either. I don't buy that a 'physical non-scoring' 4th line is capable of somehow grinding and bullying the Ovechkins, McDavids, or Crosbys of the league into meek submission, given their minutes, and that NHL top-sixers of nowadays typically are at least a physical match for (if not outmatch), bottom-sixers. Take your prototypical top line power-forward...they're bigger, faster, stronger, fitter, skate better....your 4th line is going to wear them down into mewling kittins because they like to play 'heavy'? Not so easy.

 

[Tommigun]

It’s the fourth line. They are always going to play limited minutes and won’t score a lot. Might as well fill it with grinders and heavy hitters. What’s the point of a skill-based fourth when they won’t have enough minutes to produce, and if they really have the skills they won’t play on the fourth for long.

 

[Skidooboy]

His skill set to me shows a player can finish if given a chance and keep the play moving. If he develops more then great, I'm just not counting on it.

Edit I also don't see what issue is with being a complimentary offensive player that is well rounded. They are pretty valuable to have in your bottom 6.

it's just funny, you already seem to be giving him a bottom six ceiling .....like his development is over....... Sorry. I think that is absurdly premature to say anything about what Appleton may or may not be in the NHL.

 

[Tommigun]

it's just funny, you already seem to be giving him a bottom six ceiling .....like his development is over....... Sorry. I think that is absurdly premature to say anything about what Appleton may or may not be in the NHL.

Haven’t you heard? Players stop developing at 19-20 (except Scheifele). That’s been an ongoing theme here this year.

 

[Tommigun]

Ah how I needed that win. My day has been a lot better

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Maurice seems to like players who are fast and/or have a big reach on the PK to cut off passing lanes. It's one of the reasons I think he doesn't use Perreault there... not a good reach, but that's a bit of a guess.

OTOH he is very quick. Same end, different means. I can only guess that it is an attempt at limiting his injury exposure. Either that or he just likes wearing out Scheifele and Wheeler.

 

[surixon]

it's just funny, you already seem to be giving him a bottom six ceiling .....like his development is over....... Sorry. I think that is absurdly premature to say anything about what Appleton may or may not be in the NHL.

Plenty of complimentary offensive players also play in the top 6 ala Frolik. I'm not putting a ceiling on him. I just don't see him carrying the offense on his line. It doesn't mean he can't produce offense.

For the record Laine is currently a complimentary offensive player in the sense that most of his offense is finishing plays created by other players.

Edit: I also didn't see him as much of a driver in the AHL either. His rookie year he played with two better offensive players most of the year who drove the offense in Petan and Roslovic.

This year he spent most if his time with a gifted playmaker in Griffeth who has a history of driving offense in the AHL.

I don't think you get what I am saying.

 

[ffh]

They can't outskate or out-muscle the players they supposedly need to wear down either. I don't buy that a 'physical non-scoring' 4th line is capable of somehow grinding and bullying the Ovechkins, McDavids, or Crosbys of the league into meek submission, given their minutes, and that NHL top-sixers of nowadays typically are at least a physical match for (if not outmatch), bottom-sixers. Take your prototypical top line power-forward...they're bigger, faster, stronger, fitter, skate better....your 4th line is going to wear them down into mewling kittins because they like to play 'heavy'? Not so easy.

our 3rd line is our 4th line and they can match up pretty well against those players you mentioned. the problem is our 4th line because of the way this team is structured has to play against other teams 4th lines for the most part. and since teams 4th lines resembles our 3rd line the question is what type of player do you want to go up against them. I would rather have a Lemieux Appleton then a dano petan type. that's because all 4th lines play in the mud for a good part of the game. that's never going to change.

 

[LowLefty]

OTOH he is very quick. Same end, different means. I can only guess that it is an attempt at limiting his injury exposure. Either that or he just likes wearing out Scheifele and Wheeler.

I think you nailed it here -
He used to PK and was often hobbling off after taking a shot - he used to just throw himself in front of pucks at the worst angles.
And Matty tends to get booboo's a lot -

 

[Skidooboy]

Plenty of complimentary offensive players also play in the top 6 ala Frolik. I'm not putting a ceiling on him. I just don't see him carrying the offense on his line. It doesn't mean he can't produce offense.

For the record Laine is currently a complimentary offensive player in the sense that most of his offense is finishing plays created by other players.

Edit: I also didn't see him as much of a driver in the AHL either. His rookie year he played with two better offensive players most of the year who drove the offense in Petan and Roslovic.

This year he spent most if his time with a gifted playmaker in Griffeth who has a history of driving offense in the AHL.

I don't think you get what I am saying.

No I get what you are saying, and yes a "complimentary' player is a nice thing to have and not a dismissal or insult of a players skill and use or potential impact on a game so i see what you are saying.........I just think its wrong. In fact with so little a sample size in a rookie year...it's almost insane.

I'd be curious to see what you say said about #55 at 22yrs old. Did you have him marked down as a complimentary 4th liner as well?

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Yea, we really need our 4th line to 'wear down' the other teams 4th line .

If our 4th line is on the ice against anyone other than the other teams bottom 6 in a playoff game Maurice will be yanking them off the ice as fast as possible.