Post-Game Talk: Renewable Biofuel

[Kovalev27]

Can live with a bad analytical 4th line if they continue the positive contributions on the PK.

I’ve got zero problem with Bonino and as you guys know I always say I want pkers on my fourth line. That’s all I care about. I want good pkers there. We’ve got that. Bonino makes a ton of great defensive plays out there. Goodrow hasn’t been great yet but he’ll pick it up as the games get bigger

Kreider always starts slow and I come here and say it every year. His game will pick up too.

I’m really really hoping we do go get Kane. I want to see kakko on that third line. By the way I said it very early. Don’t be surprised when you get to around game 10 and Kakko has like 1 or 2 goals and 3 or 4 pts. The games will just melt off the schedule with kakko not producing.

 

[TominNC]

Thats buying him slack though it shouldn't really excuse his play 5v5.

I thought last night was the first time he's been really horrible this season (it was one of the worst games I remember him playing, ever) but he hasn't been good at ES at all this year. He's bugged me the most of the 3 on his line because its been flashes of pretty good mixed in between a lot of the same half assed gliding, non committal, sleepy play that he tends to fall into.

He's been great on the PP and I've mostly liked his efforts on the PK so there is that.

If I'm changing anything in the top 9, I'd flip him and Cuylle for now until he gets his shit together. He shouldn't have seen a shift after mid way through the 2nd. He was out sucked by maybe only Goodrow who desperately needs to take a seat but I think he's probably gotten the Marc Staal seal of immunity on this team.

I’m not flipping anything. The teams winning and Mika and Kreider alway produce. Patience. They’ll pick it up.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Thats buying him slack though it shouldn't really excuse his play 5v5.

I thought last night was the first time he's been really horrible this season (it was one of the worst games I remember him playing, ever) but he hasn't been good at ES at all this year. He's bugged me the most of the 3 on his line because its been flashes of pretty good mixed in between a lot of the same half assed gliding, non committal, sleepy play that he tends to fall into.

He's been great on the PP and I've mostly liked his efforts on the PK so there is that.

If I'm changing anything in the top 9, I'd flip him and Cuylle for now until he gets his shit together. He shouldn't have seen a shift after mid way through the 2nd. He was out sucked by maybe only Goodrow who desperately needs to take a seat but I think he's probably gotten the Marc Staal seal of immunity on this team.

5 goals in 7 games does get you slack. Maybe the other 2 guys on the line could actually start doing something. He was bad last night but the whole line has sucked 5 on 5 this year, and at least he scores on the PP. Mika and Kakko have 1 goal between them and I have seen nothing from either of them yet.

 

[duhmetreE]

It'd be better if we had a 4th line that wasn't legitimately one of the worst lines in hockey.

You guys need to realize that most of the caving happens when they are playing. The 1st line (mostly Kreider) decided to join in on the festivities last night but that isn't a common occurrence. The 4th line has been an issue since game 1 and will continue to be one until changes are made there.

there's no fixing it.

Lavi likes Bonino. Goodrow is Drury's guy. Vesey isn't going to carry a line, he's a compliment piece. They are all skating in mud coming out of our zone. So easy to trap them in.

Comes down to the center being waaaaay too slow imo. I honestly would rather have someone like Brodz on that line to help with the breakout and relieve some pressure.

I’ve got zero problem with Bonino and as you guys know I always say I want pkers on my fourth line. That’s all I care about. I want good pkers there. We’ve got that. Bonino makes a ton of great defensive plays out there. Goodrow hasn’t been great yet but he’ll pick it up as the games get bigger

Kreider always starts slow and I come here and say it every year. His game will pick up too.

I’m really really hoping we do go get Kane. I want to see kakko on that third line. By the way I said it very early. Don’t be surprised when you get to around game 10 and Kakko has like 1 or 2 goals and 3 or 4 pts. The games will just melt off the schedule with kakko not producing.

Bonino is great on PK, defense and faceoffs. He's horrendous in transition and offense. Someone needs to be able to relieve that pressure on that line.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Not enough love in here for Trocheck's performance last night. Really strong bounce back from what was a pretty rough one in Calgary. He was a dog out there (Cuylle too.)

I’ve got zero problem with Bonino and as you guys know I always say I want pkers on my fourth line. That’s all I care about. I want good pkers there. We’ve got that. Bonino makes a ton of great defensive plays out there. Goodrow hasn’t been great yet but he’ll pick it up as the games get bigger

Kreider always starts slow and I come here and say it every year. His game will pick up too.

I’m really really hoping we do go get Kane. I want to see kakko on that third line. By the way I said it very early. Don’t be surprised when you get to around game 10 and Kakko has like 1 or 2 goals and 3 or 4 pts. The games will just melt off the schedule with kakko not producing.

You want to keep Bonino? Fine. I've liked him a bunch on the PK too.

He needs better wingers. Goodrow isn't the answer and Vesey honestly hasn't been either. The 3 of them have been the WORST LINE IN THE LEAGUE in xGF% with over 30 minutes of 5v5 time.

Literally league worst. They rate as our worst line in both xGF/60 and xGA/60 as well. Our top 3 lines are 50% or better (with Trocheck's line breaking at exactly even which is a feat since they've adopted the role of a matchup line.)

Our 4th line? 22.7%! It would be problematic if they were at 40%, they're at 22.7!

Patrick Kane would make our top line worse.

I don't know why anyone wants him after what we saw last year. The surgery didn't magically turn him 27 again. Like unless a player is just super elite at offense (which Kane isn't anymore) - If you can't defend and you can't dig, we really shouldn't be adding them.

 

[IchabodCrane]

Still trying to pawn her off? I'm single now, haha.

Private msg me

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Great shutdown

there's no fixing it.

Lavi likes Bonino. Goodrow is Drury's guy. Vesey isn't going to carry a line, he's a compliment piece. They are all skating in mud coming out of our zone. So easy to trap them in.

Comes down to the center being waaaaay too slow imo. I honestly would rather have someone like Brodz on that line to help with the breakout and relieve some pressure.

oh yeah, 4th line got their cheeks spread real wide again last night. Shot attempts 6-15, chances 1-8, high dangers 0-5. Nice one guys

 

[duhmetreE]

"They defend well" is true.

but they are always defending. That's the problem.

There will be breakdowns and GA eventually.

 

[Levitate]

5 goals in 7 games does get you slack. Maybe the other 2 guys on the line could actually start doing something. He was bad last night but the whole line has sucked 5 on 5 this year, and at least he scores on the PP. Mika and Kakko have 1 goal between them and I have seen nothing from either of them yet.

I see plenty from them just no finish. If they finished a few of the chances they got we wouldn't be talking about it this way

that said I'd like them to try setting up Kakko more rather than him setting up Kreider and Zibanejad at this point. If those two are struggling to score 5v5 then push the puck to Kakko to take the shots more often

e: I noticed draisaitl's line was out against the 4th line a lot last night. I assume it was more Edmonton trying to get that matchup but yeah, 1st line versus 4th line is almost always a loss for the 4th line on any team

 

[will1066]

Have you ever been to Fuji Sushi on Lee Road?

It's the best in town. If you go say hi to Chef A.B. for me and if you like octopus get the "Monte" roll (my last name). It's a spicy octopus roll topped w/spicy tuna, guacamole & mango.

They named a roll after you?

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

"They defend well" is true.

but they are always defending. That's the problem.

There will be breakdowns and GA eventually.

AKA the Schneider paradox

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I see plenty from them just no finish. If they finished a few of the chances they got we wouldn't be talking about it this way

that said I'd like them to try setting up Kakko more rather than him setting up Kreider and Zibanejad at this point. If those two are struggling to score 5v5 then push the puck to Kakko to take the shots more often

e: I noticed draisaitl's line was out against the 4th line a lot last night. I assume it was more Edmonton trying to get that matchup but yeah, 1st line versus 4th line is almost always a loss for the 4th line on any team

But finish is what a 1st line has to do. I believe they have 1 even strength goal in 7 games so far. Just not good enough but it's early.

 

[bhamill]

I was wondering, anybody heard from “Fugazy” Bissonette? Hahaha.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

But finish is what a 1st line has to do. I believe they have 1 even strength goal in 7 games so far. Just not good enough but it's early.

I think its 2?

Kreider has 1, Kakko has the other.

Unless Kakko scored with other people on the ice.

@Levitate is right, they've had chances and haven't converted but I haven't really liked what I've seen out of any of them despite that. Their metrics are great (best on the team) and the chances have been there but it just seems a bit flat at times.

Zibanejad needs to shoot more and realize that Kreider isn't chasing the franchise record for goals in a season anymore. You have the best shot on the line, use it.

Kakko needs to adopt a f*** it mentality and just drive the net every once in a while. You may not score, but chaos will ensue because of it.

Kreider needs to stop gliding and actually commit to sealing a wall off and winning a puck battle and/or a race to a puck. His 29030230923 turnovers last night were an anomaly, the former has been a feature of his game for this season so far.

 

[duhmetreE]

BRO....

BROTHERS....

I knew it was bad.... but 22.7xG% for the 4th LINE? LOL

AKA the Schneider paradox

Analytically, that’s been our best pair

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

Can you get a point without getting a +1?

Excluding PP

Like you make a pass, go for a change, and a goal is scored with you getting a secondary assist on the bench.

Does that count?

 

[will1066]

I think its 2?

Kreider has 1, Kakko has the other.

Unless Kakko scored with other people on the ice.

@Levitate is right, they've had chances and haven't converted but I haven't really liked what I've seen out of any of them despite that. Their metrics are great (best on the team) and the chances have been there but it just seems a bit flat at times.

Zibanejad needs to shoot more and realize that Kreider isn't chasing the franchise record for goals in a season anymore. You have the best shot on the line, use it.

Kakko needs to adopt a f*** it mentality and just drive the net every once in a while. You may not score, but chaos will ensue because of it.

Kreider needs to stop gliding and actually commit to sealing a wall off and winning a puck battle and/or a race to a puck. His 29030230923 turnovers last night were an anomaly, the former has been a feature of his game for this season so far.

Does he, though? He can zip it still, but the accuracy just isn't there

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Does he, though? He can zip it still, but the accuracy just isn't there

Thats a meme that needs to die.

If OV played here people would be saying the same thing about him too.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

BRO....

BROTHERS....

I knew it was bad.... but 22.7xG% for the 4th LINE? LOL


Analytically, that’s been our best pair

The Gus effect

 

[will1066]

Thats a meme that needs to die.

If OV played here people would be saying the same thing about him too.

Zib was right there with OV with regards to the one timer. I don't think we can comfortably say anymore that his one-timer is an automatic. He did snipe the top far corner on the goal that was waved off but other than that his shot looks pretty messed up.

 

[Machinehead]

Quick looks way better than Halak did last year at any point last year. Not just the start which was atrocious. I was really worried about him, but this low key looks like a great signing right now.

This is why sometimes it's hard to take advanced stats seriously.

View attachment 758670

This isn't surprising at all.

a) This was very similar to the Calgary game where we were good until we had the lead and then turtled hard.

b) The 4th line got outshot almost 4:1.

A lot of teams turtle it up on these long trips but it wouldn't be advisable to play like that every night.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

This isn't surprising at all.

a) This was very similar to the Calgary game where we were good until we had the lead and then turtled hard.

b) The 4th line got outshot almost 4:1.

A lot of teams turtle it up on these long trips but it wouldn't be advisable to play like that every night.

I'm not worried about the turtling.

B is a bigger issue. B will lose this team games.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm not worried about the turtling.

B is a bigger issue. B will lose this team games.

If you take out the 4th line, the Rangers would have had a slight edge in xG. The type of analytics they put up last night look like a 5v3 powerplay. Goodrow was on the ice for 0.02 for and 1.25 against at 5v5.

I'm on the record as not caring that much about 4th lines but that's ridiculous. I basically agree with the sentiment that we don't care as long as they kill penalties because, yeah, your 4th line isn't going to be good. This isn't just "not good," though. This is just about starting a game on PlayStation and putting your controller down. It's that lopsided.

 

[CLW]

Does he, though? He can zip it still, but the accuracy just isn't there

Zib's like this for a few weeks until the shots suddenly start to hit the corners like lasers. But right now he's not really friends with the puck.

I agree with those that say Kakko needs to be a bit more selfish and go for goal himself. He's good at getting the puck to Kreider and Zibs, but he never sees the puck again after that. Kakko's still playing it 'safe', and is doing fine in that regard, but I feel he needs to cut loose from the safe play and take a chance here and there and start skating instead of observing/thinking - a bit like Laffy is playing.

I've been saying it in the Kakko thread since forever, he's not a natural fit with Kreider and Zibs. They are fine together, but if you want point production you need to A. wait until Kreider and Zibs really hit their strides, and B. find a better balance how they approach the game in the o-zone. Kreider and Zibs are horses and fantastic players, but they are at their best off the rush and not really playmakers/cyclers. But it's early days and hopefully the coaches can fine tune that line.

 

[will1066]

If you take out the 4th line, the Rangers would have had a slight edge in xG. The type of analytics they put up last night look like a 5v3 powerplay. Goodrow was on the ice for 0.02 for and 1.25 against at 5v5.

I'm on the record as not caring that much about 4th lines but that's ridiculous. I basically agree with the sentiment that we don't care as long as they kill penalties because, yeah, your 4th line isn't going to be good. This isn't just "not good," though. This is just about starting a game on PlayStation and putting your controller down. It's that lopsided.

5 of 7 games played have been road games, so I wouldn't be surprised if they've been matched or ended up being on the ice against the other team's most talented lines through on-the-fly matching. It'll likely move toward the mean with more home games played. You're the one who likes to talk about statistical deviation and expected value.

Zib's like this for a few weeks until the shots suddenly start to hit the corners like lasers. But right now he's not really friends with the puck.

I agree with those that say Kakko needs to be a bit more selfish and go for goal himself. He's good at getting the puck to Kreider and Zibs, but he never sees the puck again after that. Kakko's still playing it 'safe', and is doing fine in that regard, but I feel he needs to cut loose from the safe play and take a chance here and there and start skating instead of observing/thinking - a bit like Laffy is playing.

I've been saying it in the Kakko thread since forever, he's not a natural fit with Kreider and Zibs. They are fine together, but if you want point production you need to A. wait until Kreider and Zibs really hit their strides, and B. find a better balance how they approach the game in the o-zone. Kreider and Zibs are horses and fantastic players, but they are at their best off the rush and not really playmakers/cyclers. But it's early days and hopefully the coaches can fine tune that line.

Completely agree with regards to Kakko