OT: Relationship Advice Thread

[Barnaby]

This question might make me sound like a teenager. Here goes, I know that the advice guys are always given when talking to women is "ask questions" and "talk less, listen more". I've gotten better at this on first dates. However, beyond that when I get comfortable I go back to what's comfortable for me, talking a lot. I don't know if this is a personality flaw but it is what it is. Is the "talk less, listen more" advice still relevant when you've talked to a person longer? Is there a point where it's like "this is who I am if you don't like it, tough"?

That’s a good first date tip. Ask questions and genuinely have or at least feign interest. I think it kind of develops organically over time and you have chemistry or not. You talk a lot and she’s cool with it or it gets on her nerves. For instance, I’m pretty laid back so I don’t mind someone who talks more, but at the same point some people become grating because they never shut up. I think the important thing is to continually show interest and care in her. When you see her don’t just launch into a 40 minute story about your trip to the supermarket but ask about her day and listen a bit. That’s important. Just as an example, I have a good friend who doesn’t stop talking and makes every daily encounter into a long story. So one day I call him up to ask him a few questions and get his opinion on a major career decision that I was about to make. I got about 30 seconds into my situation and he abruptly cuts me off to talk about what size shirt he should ask for at his job. “I said medium, but John is my size and he got a large. Should I get a large? Maybe I’ll get a large. I did lose some weight though so maybe I will get a medium. I have to tell them by tomorrow.” - I was so taken aback - it makes the person feel like you don’t care, so yea, don’t do that.

People generally try to put their best foot forward but eventually you have to see who each other really are and if that makes you happy.

 

[DutchNYR]

This question might make me sound like a teenager. Here goes, I know that the advice guys are always given when talking to women is "ask questions" and "talk less, listen more". I've gotten better at this on first dates. However, beyond that when I get comfortable I go back to what's comfortable for me, talking a lot. I don't know if this is a personality flaw but it is what it is. Is the "talk less, listen more" advice still relevant when you've talked to a person longer? Is there a point where it's like "this is who I am if you don't like it, tough"?

It doesn't make you sound like a teenager at all, in my opinion.

I think the key in communication is knowing when to talk and knowing when to listen. There's nothing wrong with being more comfortable talking than listening, but when women talk about men who talk too much and don't listen - in my experience they're talking about the egocentric type. The kind that (on a good day) can let someone else talk for 10 minutes, yet doesn't remember a thing the other said. The type of person that is very preoccupied with their own perspective on things.

But to answer your question, I think the 'talk less, listen more' is less relevant in the long run, but for another reason than the one mentioned above. If you know someone for a longer period of time, they'd still find it equally important to be heard, but what makes it easier to 'talk more', is that after a while it's more natural to be open to each other.

And yes, there is a point where it's like 'this is who I am, if you don't like it, tough?'. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. You can't pretend to be someone else, just to have someone like you.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

That’s a good first date tip. Ask questions and genuinely have or at least feign interest. I think it kind of develops organically over time and you have chemistry or not. You talk a lot and she’s cool with it or it gets on her nerves. For instance, I’m pretty laid back so I don’t mind someone who talks more, but at the same point some people become grating because they never shut up. I think the important thing is to continually show interest and care in her. When you see her don’t just launch into a 40 minute story about your trip to the supermarket but ask about her day and listen a bit. That’s important. Just as an example, I have a good friend who doesn’t stop talking and makes every daily encounter into a long story. So one day I call him up to ask him a few questions and get his opinion on a major career decision that I was about to make. I got about 30 seconds into my situation and he abruptly cuts me off to talk about what size shirt he should ask for at his job. “I said medium, but John is my size and he got a large. Should I get a large? Maybe I’ll get a large. I did lose some weight though so maybe I will get a medium. I have to tell them by tomorrow.” - I was so taken aback - it makes the person feel like you don’t care, so yea, don’t do that.

People generally try to put their best foot forward but eventually you have to see who each other really are and if that makes you happy.

I've worked at being better at this and if someone brings up something clearly important to them like a career decision it's a cue for me to shut up and listen. I also have a friend that I got into odds with at some point because he said I never ask him about him. So I made it a point to ask him about him. However, it's easier with him because he's an actor/writer and I find that interesting and he's my only such friend, so I'm genuinely interested. Then another friend got mad at me for the same thing. He had a point, but at some point, if you talk to a person every day like I do with him you don't need permission to talk about yourself. It SHOULD be much more casual.

With this girl, she's very good at asking questions, but at the same time if I want to be I'm good at it too. This other girl I was talking to I was asking all of the questions and at some point lost interest because of it. I wouldn't it to happen to this girl. Though I'd like to think I'm a pretty engaging person so even if I talk about myself I'm at least not boring.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Tangentially related to this thread. I was talking to this girl and we were talking about the term "sapiosexual" and she asked me if I am. I basically said that I don't need the girl to be a PhD but I want her to be a good conversationalist which to me is a sign of intelligence. She said she thought it was a sign of extraversion. My point was that it WAS, but to me, the willingness is a sign of extraversion, but the ability to execute is a sign of intelligence. Not a super relationship-related question but do you guys agree?

 

[Raspewtin]

I can vouch for the fact that this man actually watches TV now.

LMAO prior to meeting her the last full series I watched was Skins in High School

 

[SnowblindNYR]

LMAO prior to meeting her the last full series I watched was Skins in High School

So a year ago?

 

[LokiDog]

Tangentially related to this thread. I was talking to this girl and we were talking about the term "sapiosexual" and she asked me if I am. I basically said that I don't need the girl to be a PhD but I want her to be a good conversationalist which to me is a sign of intelligence. She said she thought it was a sign of extraversion. My point was that it WAS, but to me, the willingness is a sign of extraversion, but the ability to execute is a sign of intelligence. Not a super relationship-related question but do you guys agree?

Being chatty is extraversion; you can be chatty and also be gratingly vapid. Being well spoken and interesting, and speaking on manners of substance shows a measure of intelligence. How much intelligence is really up to how well spoken, how engaging and how much substance and meaning is in the content. Basically it can only be judged on a case by case basis.

If she’s assuming that extraversion, or being talkative runs counter to high intelligence because true genius is always accompanied by brooding solitude and a quiet countenance than she has a narrow and pretentious world view based on fictional characters. Plenty of tortured or introverted geniuses exist, but to believe there aren’t highly extroverted geniuses as well would be woefully ignorant. I can’t tell if that’s a part of her argument or not, so I’ll leave it at that and try not to judge.

However... I‘d be so turned off by someone using the term sapiosexual and asking me if I was that I’d lose all interest. It’s so unbearably pretentious and superfluous. It’s a made up, self serving label. Oh, I don’t care about looks or money or gender... I’m sapiosexual. Completely outside of my own control, I’ve had my IQ tested twice in my life, once because my parents were curious when I was like 9, once during special operations psychological profiling in the military. I’m intelligent, and yeah, I like talking to intelligent people or signs of brain activity besides the impulse to eat, fornicate and sleep... but as much as we hold intellect as some vaunted attribute, it’s not the end all be all. Comparability, tenderness, loyalty. Yes, some attraction. Yes, some intellectual stimulation. But if you’re so wrapped up in appearing as some august scholar that you call yourself sapiosexual and believe you’re being honest with yourself, you’re missing the boat on a lot of what is actually essential and you’re not likely to find yourself happy. Anecdotally, the only people I’ve ever encountered who label themselves sapiosexual are single women, mostly on dating apps, who also complain that there are no good guys out there. Maybe the fact that he’s not as well read as you’d like or doesn’t use as many $10 words in superfluous daily situations isn’t an actual reason to turn your nose up.

As an aside homosexual, asexual, pansexual, ambisexual, omnisexual, transsexual all are accepted by spell check; sapiosexual is not. It’s a made up way for people to show off how sophisticated and intelligent they are to say “I find intelligence attractive”.

 

[Raspewtin]

So a year ago?

So my nightmare that I was 25 and still in high school wasn't just a dream?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Being chatty is extraversion; you can be chatty and also be gratingly vapid. Being well spoken and interesting, and speaking on manners of substance shows a measure of intelligence. How much intelligence is really up to how well spoken, how engaging and how much substance and meaning is in the content. Basically it can only be judged on a case by case basis.

If she’s assuming that extraversion, or being talkative runs counter to high intelligence because true genius is always accompanied by brooding solitude and a quiet countenance than she has a narrow and pretentious world view based on fictional characters. Plenty of tortured or introverted geniuses exist, but to believe there aren’t highly extroverted geniuses as well would be woefully ignorant. I can’t tell if that’s a part of her argument or not, so I’ll leave it at that and try not to judge.

However... I‘d be so turned off by someone using the term sapiosexual and asking me if I was that I’d lose all interest. It’s so unbearably pretentious and superfluous. It’s a made up, self serving label. Oh, I don’t care about looks or money or gender... I’m sapiosexual. Completely outside of my own control, I’ve had my IQ tested twice in my life, once because my parents were curious when I was like 9, once during special operations psychological profiling in the military. I’m intelligent, and yeah, I like talking to intelligent people or signs of brain activity besides the impulse to eat, fornicate and sleep... but as much as we hold intellect as some vaunted attribute, it’s not the end all be all. Comparability, tenderness, loyalty. Yes, some attraction. Yes, some intellectual stimulation. But if you’re so wrapped up in appearing as some august scholar that you call yourself sapiosexual and believe you’re being honest with yourself, you’re missing the boat on a lot of what is actually essential and you’re not likely to find yourself happy. Anecdotally, the only people I’ve ever encountered who label themselves sapiosexual are single women, mostly on dating apps, who also complain that there are no good guys out there. Maybe the fact that he’s not as well read as you’d like or doesn’t use as many $10 words in superfluous daily situations isn’t an actual reason to turn your nose up.

As an aside homosexual, asexual, pansexual, ambisexual, omnisexual, transsexual all are accepted by spell check; sapiosexual is not. It’s a made up way for people to show off how sophisticated and intelligent they are to say “I find intelligence attractive”.

Haha, I'm not sure she thought it was extraversion because true genius is in introversion, I think that's assuming a lot.

BTW, the context for the sapiosexual thing:

She asked me about my thoughts on bumble. I got into talking about tinder and how it's weird with all of these "sexual" terms. But then I was the one that brought up sapiosexual and that I could get behind that because it was being turned on by intelligence. Then she asked me if I considered myself sapiosexual. So if anything she should be turned off by me. I was the one that brought it up and in a positive manner to boot.

 

[LokiDog]

Haha, I'm not sure she thought it was extraversion because true genius is in introversion, I think that's assuming a lot.

BTW, the context for the sapiosexual thing:

She asked me about my thoughts on bumble. I got into talking about tinder and how it's weird with all of these "sexual" terms. But then I was the one that brought up sapiosexual and that I could get behind that because it was being turned on by intelligence. Then she asked me if I considered myself sapiosexual. So if anything she should be turned off by me. I was the one that brought it up and in a positive manner to boot.

I think it’s fine to be attracted to intelligence but the notion of being sapiosexual is a facade that came about with the advent of the dating app culture. Too many rude, direct, uncouth people only looking for hookups. That’s fine because there’s a lot of people of all persuasions who want that; it’s annoying to the people who aren’t looking for that and get matched with people who behave that way. Sapiosexual became a buzzword you could put in your profile to try and avoid those matches. The truth is, you’re swiping on someone based on two clever paragraphs, whatever interests they purport to have, and their physical attractiveness. The people with sapiosexual in their bio aren’t swiping yes on the guy with three chins and neck beard just because he quoted Ayn Rand in his bio. Intelligence also isn’t really something that you ought to base attraction on - intelligence is desirable, but you can be highly intelligent and frigid, without social graces, rude, etc. You can also be highly intelligent and charming, charismatic, engaging and so forth. What you’re looking for isn’t intelligence. It’s “enough” intelligence to be interesting, intermingled with those other qualities. And what one person finds charming another night not, so really what you’re looking for is someone who tickles YOUR fancy and isn’t an idiot.

That’s what it boils down to. Because if they do tickle your fancy - they charm you, their mannerisms enchant you, you find their nervous laugh to be cute and their boisterous laugh to be contagious - it ultimately doesn’t matter if they’re very intelligent; it just matters that they’re not really unintelligent and being around them and trying to communicate isn’t a chore. It really renders the whole sapiosexual thing a bit of hogwash. It sounds great, but it’s ultimately a lie. Intelligence alone doesn’t really attract anyone. It can augment attraction, but without those other things it’s just as hollow as being attracted solely to looks or solely to wealth.

We’re all looking for a person to engage in some sort of enjoyable dance of conversation, adventure, relaxation, entertainment, intimacy, comfort and so on, for an indeterminable amount of time. When the dance grows stale or you realize your partner only knows a few steps and the rest was a lie, it fizzles and fails. When you find someone who you can dance with eternally, you’re happy.

I’m not saying that it’s bad to value intelligence. I just think that when you start getting sucked into these labels and pretentions, you’re already setting yourself up for failure. Advertising yourself as sapiosexual and then giggling at fart jokes when you’re curled up on the couch together tends to not mesh. I definitely value intelligence and I think my fiancé is fiercely intelligent, but I would never lead her to believe that I’m some kind of sophisticate because I am absolutely going to shotgun a beer with my younger brother and his friends at the 4th of July BBQ, for old times sake, even though I’m 34 and I’m going to laugh at all the fart and poop jokes on tv and blame the dog when I fart and that’s just life.


Apologies for the novel, but this actually goes back to my very first posts about just knowing who you really are and owning it. There’s no need for labels. In the long run they’re harmful. Am I sapiosexual? Sure, intelligence attracts and intrigues me, but I’m just me. There’s no label that describes me. I just own the fact that I’m a walking contradiction in 45 different ways and you’re either going to hate or love it, but it’s always going to be authentically me.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I think it’s fine to be attracted to intelligence but the notion of being sapiosexual is a facade that came about with the advent of the dating app culture. Too many rude, direct, uncouth people only looking for hookups. That’s fine because there’s a lot of people of all persuasions who want that; it’s annoying to the people who aren’t looking for that and get matched with people who behave that way. Sapiosexual became a buzzword you could put in your profile to try and avoid those matches. The truth is, you’re swiping on someone based on two clever paragraphs, whatever interests they purport to have, and their physical attractiveness. The people with sapiosexual in their bio aren’t swiping yes on the guy with three chins and neck beard just because he quoted Ayn Rand in his bio. Intelligence also isn’t really something that you ought to base attraction on - intelligence is desirable, but you can be highly intelligent and frigid, without social graces, rude, etc. You can also be highly intelligent and charming, charismatic, engaging and so forth. What you’re looking for isn’t intelligence. It’s “enough” intelligence to be interesting, intermingled with those other qualities. And what one person finds charming another night not, so really what you’re looking for is someone who tickles YOUR fancy and isn’t an idiot.

That’s what it boils down to. Because if they do tickle your fancy - they charm you, their mannerisms enchant you, you find their nervous laugh to be cute and their boisterous laugh to be contagious - it ultimately doesn’t matter if they’re very intelligent; it just matters that they’re not really unintelligent and being around them and trying to communicate isn’t a chore. It really renders the whole sapiosexual thing a bit of hogwash. It sounds great, but it’s ultimately a lie. Intelligence alone doesn’t really attract anyone. It can augment attraction, but without those other things it’s just as hollow as being attracted solely to looks or solely to wealth.

We’re all looking for a person to engage in some sort of enjoyable dance of conversation, adventure, relaxation, entertainment, intimacy, comfort and so on, for an indeterminable amount of time. When the dance grows stale or you realize your partner only knows a few steps and the rest was a lie, it fizzles and fails. When you find someone who you can dance with eternally, you’re happy.

I’m not saying that it’s bad to value intelligence. I just think that when you start getting sucked into these labels and pretentions, you’re already setting yourself up for failure. Advertising yourself as sapiosexual and then giggling at fart jokes when you’re curled up on the couch together tends to not mesh. I definitely value intelligence and I think my fiancé is fiercely intelligent, but I would never lead her to believe that I’m some kind of sophisticate because I am absolutely going to shotgun a beer with my younger brother and his friends at the 4th of July BBQ, for old times sake, even though I’m 34 and I’m going to laugh at all the fart and poop jokes on tv and blame the dog when I fart and that’s just life.


Apologies for the novel, but this actually goes back to my very first posts about just knowing who you really are and owning it. There’s no need for labels. In the long run they’re harmful. Am I sapiosexual? Sure, intelligence attracts and intrigues me, but I’m just me. There’s no label that describes me. I just own the fact that I’m a walking contradiction in 45 different ways and you’re either going to hate or love it, but it’s always going to be authentically me.

I remember my coworker was dating a girl that went to Harvard and he told me how attracted he was to intelligence, so I think this goes beyond dating apps. I don't think being attracted to intelligence first and foremost means you're not attracted to other things. I also know plenty of intelligent people that would laugh at fart jokes. Being able to be silly and being intelligent aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[LokiDog]

I remember my coworker was dating a girl that went to Harvard and he told me how attracted he was to intelligence, so I think this goes beyond dating apps. I don't think being attracted to intelligence first and foremost means you're not attracted to other things. I also know plenty of intelligent people that would laugh at fart jokes. Being able to be silly and being intelligent aren't mutually exclusive.

That’s kind of the point. Sapiosexual is a made up label and it’s kind of self serving. Attraction is multifaceted and having intelligence be one of those facets for you is pretty run of the mill. But saying “I’d like someone smart, funny, caring, etc.” is apparently too pedestrian. People seem to need to hammer home that when I say ‘smart’ what I mean is, I’m probably smarter than you because I say sapiosexual instead. It just feels so self serving, and half the time it just means I’m attracted to guys with a sense of style and a really meaningful, insightful quote tattooed on his forearm who posts cute selfies of himself reading a Palahnuk book or witty memes about coffee. I don’t know man, don’t listen to me. I’m jaded, I’ve dated damn near 100 women and hooked up with nearly half that. I’ve played all the word games and jumped through all the hoops and the only thing that’s ever been healthy and fulfilling is just unbridled authenticity. No games. No pretentious labels. I think both sexes spend so much time trying to construct a facade that will attract what they think they want that they rarely succeed, because both parties are trying so hard to present something other than “hey, this is me”.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

That’s kind of the point. Sapiosexual is a made up label and it’s kind of self serving. Attraction is multifaceted and having intelligence be one of those facets for you is pretty run of the mill. But saying “I’d like someone smart, funny, caring, etc.” is apparently too pedestrian. People seem to need to hammer home that when I say ‘smart’ what I mean is, I’m probably smarter than you because I say sapiosexual instead. It just feels so self serving, and half the time it just means I’m attracted to guys with a sense of style and a really meaningful, insightful quote tattooed on his forearm who posts cute selfies of himself reading a Palahnuk book or witty memes about coffee. I don’t know man, don’t listen to me. I’m jaded, I’ve dated damn near 100 women and hooked up with nearly half that. I’ve played all the word games and jumped through all the hoops and the only thing that’s ever been healthy and fulfilling is just unbridled authenticity. No games. No pretentious labels. I think both sexes spend so much time trying to construct a facade that will attract what they think they want that they rarely succeed, because both parties are trying so hard to present something other than “hey, this is me”.

I can only speak for men but most TV, at least in the 80s and 90s always had the "cool" character (Zach Morris, Slater) and the nerd (Screetch) and the implication was act like the cool character and you'll get women, act like the nerd and you won't. So people have this kind of stuff ingrained in them from a young age.

 

[LokiDog]

I can only speak for men but most TV, at least in the 80s and 90s always had the "cool" character (Zach Morris, Slater) and the nerd (Screetch) and the implication was act like the cool character and you'll get women, act like the nerd and you won't. So people have this kind of stuff ingrained in them from a young age.

It’s true that these archetypes are ingrained at young ages, but hopefully by our mid 20s we’re evolved to recognize that these are caricatures. Modern entertainment has certainly upped the sex appeal of intelligence in their characterizations as well. Moreover, while Screech lusts over the traditionally “hot” babes Zack gets, is it really anything other than looks and a bubbly personality that he’s after? In real life, Screech isn’t happy with the preppy cheerleader unless she’s secretly a bit of a nerd herself. And if she is, she should own that, rather than hide it, and maybe a Screech can then see that and have an opportunity to engage her in a conversation about it. Likewise, if she has that more intellectual component and the Zack doesn’t, eventually his cool guy shtick gets boring. So two points from that are one, we’re not caricatures like these people on TV and at some point in your dating life you should be cognizant of that and stop looking for ridiculous archetypes and look for real, authentic multifaceted people, and two, we only do ourselves a disservice by not owning all facets of our personalities. You can be a jock cool guy and a nerd simultaneously. You probably want someone who also has a blend of both, for long term compatibility but if you always hide the nerd and let everyone believe you’re just a cool jock, you’re missing the boat. It keeps coming back to authenticity for me.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It’s true that these archetypes are ingrained at young ages, but hopefully by our mid 20s we’re evolved to recognize that these are caricatures. Modern entertainment has certainly upped the sex appeal of intelligence in their characterizations as well. Moreover, while Screech lusts over the traditionally “hot” babes Zack gets, is it really anything other than looks and a bubbly personality that he’s after? In real life, Screech isn’t happy with the preppy cheerleader unless she’s secretly a bit of a nerd herself. And if she is, she should own that, rather than hide it, and maybe a Screech can then see that and have an opportunity to engage her in a conversation about it. Likewise, if she has that more intellectual component and the Zack doesn’t, eventually his cool guy shtick gets boring. So two points from that are one, we’re not caricatures like these people on TV and at some point in your dating life you should be cognizant of that and stop looking for ridiculous archetypes and look for real, authentic multifaceted people, and two, we only do ourselves a disservice by not owning all facets of our personalities. You can be a jock cool guy and a nerd simultaneously. You probably want someone who also has a blend of both, for long term compatibility but if you always hide the nerd and let everyone believe you’re just a cool jock, you’re missing the boat. It keeps coming back to authenticity for me.

I know people my age (in their 30s) that believe one of "all women want the cool suave guy", "all women just want guys that make a lot of money", or both.

 

[effen]

This question might make me sound like a teenager. Here goes, I know that the advice guys are always given when talking to women is "ask questions" and "talk less, listen more". I've gotten better at this on first dates. However, beyond that when I get comfortable I go back to what's comfortable for me, talking a lot. I don't know if this is a personality flaw but it is what it is. Is the "talk less, listen more" advice still relevant when you've talked to a person longer? Is there a point where it's like "this is who I am if you don't like it, tough"?

It's less listening and more not taking up all the air in the room. It's literally all judgment calls as to when and where that's appropriate but try to give space and encourage the other party to voice their opinions and not immediately shut them down, play devils advocate, WELL ACKSHULLY. yanno?

If they require a ton of hand holding with back-and-forth and you're not up for coaxing someone, that's probably an intractable problem long-term. YMMV though.

 

[LokiDog]

I know people my age (in their 30s) that believe one of "all women want the cool suave guy", "all women just want guys that make a lot of money", or both.

Pity them, don’t be like them. We all suffer from a ton of junk pop culture conditioning. You’ve gotta dump all that crap, be yourself, find someone whose on a similar journey of writing their own programming for a change and encourage them to go further, let their real light shine, amplify each other, etc. A lot of the under 40 crowd is stuck trying to emulate the drama and bullshit tropes that decades of bad TV and movies have taught them.

 

[bobbop]

A general observation;

My generation were talkers. We talked all the time because we couldn't bury our heads in a phone. We talked in school, on the bus, at home and on the phone. We made Christmas phone calls to old friends. We learned to talk and (especially if you went to a Catholic School) we learned to listen. You can write words but you cannot capture the same emotion when those words are spoken

Today's generation are writers. I learned to talk in all different places to all different people because I couldn't rely on posting on forums, emailing, tweeting and God knows what else. This is not just a relationship hurdle. In the last 10 years when I interviewed candidates for well paying jobs, I was struck by the decline in verbal skills. It caused me to pass on a lot of good candidates.

My general advice is put the phone away, use it when it is necessary. Don't send a text when a phone call will suffice. Don't try to write what you can say. Verbal communication takes practice. Don't be afraid to stumble. In time you will develop a skill that will greatly enhance your life.

And eventually you will find the right person.

 

[effen]

I know people my age (in their 30s) that believe one of "all women want the cool suave guy", "all women just want guys that make a lot of money", or both.

all the women that they know of, maybe. but they're probably only looking in places that those women are prominent in.

little off-topic, but when you're selling anything (including yourself) you need 3 things:
content
marketing
distribution

content is you in this case. or them. whatever.
if you're great, great, but if no one knows you're available (marketing), how can they pursue you? fail.
if your marketing and content are good, and they know you're available, but your distribution is bad (you stay at home all day), they can't get you. fail.
if your marketing is good (friends say you're looking), and your distribution is good (known to hang out at Bar X 4 days a week), but your content (you) is below par, they'll avoid. fail.

same thing with TVs, cell phones, used cars, anything.

 

[LokiDog]

A general observation;

My generation were talkers. We talked all the time because we couldn't bury our heads in a phone. We talked in school, on the bus, at home and on the phone. We made Christmas phone calls to old friends. We learned to talk and (especially if you went to a Catholic School) we learned to listen. You can write words but you cannot capture the same emotion when those words are spoken

Today's generation are writers. I learned to talk in all different places to all different people because I couldn't rely on posting on forums, emailing, tweeting and God knows what else. This is not just a relationship hurdle. In the last 10 years when I interviewed candidates for well paying jobs, I was struck by the decline in verbal skills. It caused me to pass on a lot of good candidates.

My general advice is put the phone away, use it when it is necessary. Don't send a text when a phone call will suffice. Don't try to write what you can say. Verbal communication takes practice. Don't be afraid to stumble. In time you will develop a skill that will greatly enhance your life.

And eventually you will find the right person.

If I could love this post I would. Even before the military I’d grown up with parents who were old school and wanted me playing outside. I was the last of my friends to get any gaming system. I wasn’t allowed to get myself a cell phone til I graduated high school. In the long run that was beneficial, though back then I was still awkward and didn’t carry myself with confidence.

In the military I was put in a lot of positions that required me to speak with the base pop or large groups. Eventually I was tagged as our unit instructor so I had to teach in front of groups every day. Finally as an NCO I started being asked to MC events like retirements, changes of command, graduations, etc.

We would bring in other members of the unit for certain trainings, to assist in an area of expertise like field sobriety testing. The one class I always taught and still get emails asking for advice on to this day was verbal controls. This is how you approach and deal with subjects in the field, de-escalation, compliance, interview, etc. They started calling my class verbal judo.

Being an effective oral communicator and confident speaker has been immensely helpful in all areas of my life. Certainly in the professional sphere, leaving the military and interviewing for jobs last year. But it was also tremendously beneficial in the dating world and it allowed me to do something most people my age don’t do, which is not rely entirely on dating apps and social media for setting up first dates and finding prospects. With the right amount of tact and respect, approaching women in social situations and bars is extremely effective because they’re used to men either being too terrified (due to the fact that our generation can’t communicate without a cellphone) or creepily trying to use a pickup line or buy them a drink. Striking up an actual conversation and not being at all pushy seems to astonish women in their late 20s/early 30s.

Learning to communicate without a keypad is essential. Confidently, articulately, conversationally. It’s becoming a lost art and it will enhance your life in so many areas, work and dating being just a couple. I know that my ability to communicate in person helped me to overcome a resume that was sort of bare minimum for the position I ultimately received; translating some of your military responsibilities to the civilian sector can be tricky and I knew, especially having come from the combat and law enforcement sector of the military, a lot of my experience would look like I was more fit for a security or law enforcement job than anything white collar. You can only write so much on a resume, but by being a capable communicator I was able to really illustrate how team management, time management, administrative reports upon return from the field, budget requests and management when I headed a section for 18 months, etc. we’re all part of my experience in military law enforcement and special operations. The interview definitely made up for the experience gap.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

I know people my age (in their 30s) that believe one of "all women want the cool suave guy", "all women just want guys that make a lot of money", or both.

Deep down I want to believe that "good guys win" or you can find someone awesome without having to use gimmicks, bells, whistles or be like exaggerated alpha. In my heart I believe it but in my head I've grown very callus. It might just be my environment and personal experience and I'm not giving up but its very hard from what I've witnessed firsthand.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

So here's a fun one to bring up. I know how I'm leaning and how I will play this but this is for the benefit of others and pure discussion. One of my beliefs is that humans can learn from each other and if an experience can help someone, all the better.

My friend's g/f was trying to hook me up with one of her friends. She knows my current deal (still really sad over a girl in NY and hoping to maybe visit my female friend far away once covid restrictions lessen and see where that goes). She sent me pix of the girl and her FB profile and I'm just not feeling it. The attraction isn't there and her interests don't seem to align with me.

I think that's enough to not even engage plus covid etc. I mean, we can start talking but what's the point? I'm in my 30s and a firm believer in not wasting a woman's time if you don't have some common bond or mutual intentions (if its just hooking up 2x a month and you're both cool with that, fine) because if they want to find a husband, etc. its messing with their opportunities. I don't expect brownie points from girls I like with this philosophy its just part of my samurai code.

To add an extra element to this, the girl who suggested this broke up with my friend very recently and didn't mention it to me so its an extra layer of "this is not a good idea."

I'm just not really in the right mindset to date anyone I'm not interested in especially with covid and trying to shake my thing that didn't work out here.

Some might say I'm throwing away an opportunity now but if there's zero attraction, there are many times girls/ladies/etc. have done that to me so its fair IMHO.

My friend who is far away I realize its a low percentage situation. We were talking 2x a week from March-May and it seems to have just fizzled. She had some tough times and I told her she was awesome/beautiful/etc. to help her get through it so who knows how she took it (she is most definitely all of those things). I don't bug her that much I try to live my life and dont chase. She knows my work deal (I work a lot in my real job) and has seen my editing and writing "hobby/weekend gig" (I help edit and write my friends podcast) come to fruition which is what I spend most of my weekends doing so I would hope she sees I know how to live life and be independent.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Kind of funny, but made me a bit uncomfortable. I posted a joke on FB about how much it sucks to be married and my friend's ex-wife commented "most accurate FB post I have seen in weeks".

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Kind of funny, but made me a bit uncomfortable. I posted a joke on FB about how much it sucks to be married and my friend's ex-wife commented "most accurate FB post I have seen in weeks".

Covid is going to alter relationships and marriages for the entire 20-something to early 40-something group. Divorce rates will go up. I already spoke with a lawyer friend and he has confirmed this.

We'll learn the overall impact by the mid point of the decade IMHO.

 

[LORDE]

I've worked at being better at this and if someone brings up something clearly important to them like a career decision it's a cue for me to shut up and listen. I also have a friend that I got into odds with at some point because he said I never ask him about him. So I made it a point to ask him about him. However, it's easier with him because he's an actor/writer and I find that interesting and he's my only such friend, so I'm genuinely interested. Then another friend got mad at me for the same thing. He had a point, but at some point, if you talk to a person every day like I do with him you don't need permission to talk about yourself. It SHOULD be much more casual.

With this girl, she's very good at asking questions, but at the same time if I want to be I'm good at it too. This other girl I was talking to I was asking all of the questions and at some point lost interest because of it. I wouldn't it to happen to this girl. Though I'd like to think I'm a pretty engaging person so even if I talk about myself I'm at least not boring.

Try to ask questions that have open ended answers... that helps. If the answer can be Y or N... back it up with how did that make you feel or something like that where the answer requires an explanation.

Sometimes repeating back (not verbatim) Helps me listen more... like she says Susie said this to me and I was so shocked. You respond, wow I can't believe someone would say (XYZ) like that. Helps you to concentrate on what she's saying AND more important retain it.

This helps me in fights w my finacee... after shes done ripping into me lol I say "So you're feeling XYZ?"