Rehashing Old Ground: Adams vs. Botterill vs. Murray vs. Regier...

[SnuggaRUDE]

How in the world can you rank Murray ahead of Regier?

Regier had President trophy winner, 3 conference final teams, and a Stanley Cup finalist. All on limited resources and support.

Murray never had a winning season and hasn’t worked in the NHL since.

Botterill was even better than Murray

And Adam’s hasn’t done anything (especially on the back end and goaltending wise) to be ranked ahead of Regier yet. Hopefully he gets there though. He does have potential.

I feel like i'm eating crazy pills. The Murray stans blow my mind. Regier is just head and shoulders above anyone they've had since.

The only explanation i've ever been able to come up with is that there's a certain segment who just got addicted to his crash tv, block buster trades all day every day, style because it gave them something to do on the main boards.

 

[Fezzy126]

I feel like i'm eating crazy pills. The Murray stans blow my mind. Regier is just head and shoulders above anyone they've had since.

The only explanation i've ever been able to come up with is that there's a certain segment who just got addicted to his crash tv, block buster trades all day every day, style because it gave them something to do on the main boards.

I'm not here to defend anyone between Murray, Botts, and Regier, all the choices suck and I refuse to rank them.
But I will say this - has a gm ever dismantled two Stanley cup contending teams and a competent hockey operations department as quickly as Regier?

Two words - video scouting.

Darcy's early 2000's staff had a lot more eyes that have gone on to other team's draft tables: Jim Benning, Don Luce, Larry Carriere, Terry Martin. When the budget got tight, hockey people left and weren't replaced.

This ^^^

In my mind:
1) Regier inherited the cup team from Muckler and destroyed it
2) He inherited a tremendous hockey ops department that built the co-caps teams (with the help of all the stars aligning from the lockout with regards to rule changes and the extra time for a young core to develop), and then he gutted the hockey department
3) Then he quickly dismantled a second cup contender

As Chain pointed out, after the hockey people left, talent identification at the pro and amateur levels never recovered (See multiple Chain posts about "late stage Darcy")

I'll give Regier credit for keeping things together during the ownership issues, but aside from that he always left a sour taste in my mouth. We can point out results and talk about the influence of Quinn and Ownership spending limits, but if you open up the hood and look below the surface there was a lot of bad that went unnoticed or has since been forgotten.

 

[DustyZ]

Hopefully Adams was able to pick Botts brain the other night.

Lets see where Adams finishes this year, with one of the highest scoring lines in the league in Thompson, Tuch & Skinner.

And one of the best defensemen in the league in Dahlin.

You would think this combination might spell playoffs, wouldn't you?

 

[HaNotsri]

You had Murray add multiple psychos to a young and developing team and then Botts tries to add an ultra-psycho to the second rebuild with several years of contract.
We were so lucky to get out of that shitshow.
Adams would never trade away leading players for violent junkies.

Yes, he should have upgraded our d and fix goaltending ages ago but he's nowhere near those other guys in terms of destruction.

In regards to Ullmark: he had a really hard time with his drunk and demented father. I completely understand him wanting to move on and change environment after his death. I'm also impressed by how forthcoming he has been about the relief he felt when his dad died and the struggle of trying to be a parent while your parent needs a parent.

Sometimes you need a fresh start. He would have been a great guy to build on but I can understand to some extent why Adams didn't commit to him.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

Hopefully Adams was able to pick Botts brain the other night.

He'd learn just as much picking his nose.

 

[Djp]

I'm not here to defend anyone between Murray, Botts, and Regier, all the choices suck and I refuse to rank them.
But I will say this - has a gm ever dismantled two Stanley cup contending teams and a competent hockey operations department as quickly as Regier?




This ^^^

In my mind:
1) Regier inherited the cup team from Muckler and destroyed it
2) He inherited a tremendous hockey ops department that built the co-caps teams (with the help of all the stars aligning from the lockout with regards to rule changes and the extra time for a young core to develop), and then he gutted the hockey department
3) Then he quickly dismantled a second cup contender

As Chain pointed out, after the hockey people left, talent identification at the pro and amateur levels never recovered (See multiple Chain posts about "late stage Darcy")

I'll give Regier credit for keeping things together during the ownership issues, but aside from that he always left a sour taste in my mouth. We can point out results and talk about the influence of Quinn and Ownership spending limits, but if you open up the hood and look below the surface there was a lot of bad that went unnoticed or has since been forgotten.

Reiner was the 9ne eho

yptraded fir brierre
traded for drury
drsfted Miller, pominville, Roy, vanek

the issue of resigning the players had to do with gollassno not wanting to pay.
he was good at trades when it was below the radar or he was the seller.

his drafts were decent until the cuts to scouting occurred.

these cuts in scouting hurt late Darcy snd Murray.

people complain about fixing Rochester but the problem is it takes time to do that because most don’t start AHL right after drsft but instead wait 2-3 years.

 

[DustyZ]

He'd learn just as much picking his nose.

Botts had an enormous cranium from what I remember.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Gotta read through this more later, but I was only capable of conscious thought towards the time Regier was doing dumbass shit- how the f*** do you not know Briere wants in and Drury wants out? How the f*** do you not take the 1sts over Vanek? I was, like, 10, the biggest Vanek fan, and even I knew that was a bad move. Dude just kept shooting himself in the foot around that time.

Adams has surprised me so far, but his inability to get an RD is starting to wear on me. We need one piece for playoffs, I don’t care if you have to slightly overpay for Murphy- do it. He’s not even my top target, dude is hurt too much, but it’s blatantly obvious that him playing even half our games would be a massive upgrade- and we’d rather hold onto 2nd round picks that might maybe be something in 4 years. The hell? Just buy now, make yourself look good, and if we miss out on a future Connor Murphy then tough shit.

 

[DustyZ]

I stand corrected

Cranium size surprisingly close.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

You had Murray add multiple psychos to a young and developing team and then Botts tries to add an ultra-psycho to the second rebuild with several years of contract.
We were so lucky to get out of that shitshow.
Adams would never trade away leading players for violent junkies.

Yes, he should have upgraded our d and fix goaltending ages ago but he's nowhere near those other guys in terms of destruction.

In regards to Ullmark: he had a really hard time with his drunk and demented father. I completely understand him wanting to move on and change environment after his death. I'm also impressed by how forthcoming he has been about the relief he felt when his dad died and the struggle of trying to be a parent while your parent needs a parent.

Sometimes you need a fresh start. He would have been a great guy to build on but I can understand to some extent why Adams didn't commit to him.

Who was the ultra psycho?

 

[Chainshot]

I stand corrected

Cranium size surprisingly close.View attachment 634088

Terrifying.

 

[Fezzy126]

Reiner was the 9ne eho

yptraded fir brierre
traded for drury
drsfted Miller, pominville, Roy, vanek

the issue of resigning the players had to do with gollassno not wanting to pay.
he was good at trades when it was below the radar or he was the seller.

his drafts were decent until the cuts to scouting occurred.

these cuts in scouting hurt late Darcy snd Murray.

people complain about fixing Rochester but the problem is it takes time to do that because most don’t start AHL right after drsft but instead wait 2-3 years.

You contradicted yourself - was Regier good at drafting or was his hockey department, the department originally put together by Muckler?

Does Regier get any blame for driving all the good hockey department people out of Buffalo? It's fine to say it was a directive from ownership/Quinn, but then that makes Regier a spineless jellyfish who won't stand up for his employees.

We know what happened when upper management (allegedly) gave Murray directives, he stood his ground and ultimately got fired for it (i.e. Patty wanting to keep Miller, the Pegulas wanting to fire Bylsma). Again, I stress the word allegedly on these items...

Fun fact - we're still sending out paychecks to two players that Regier signed (yes the Hodgsen one is extenuating circumstances, but still). Does this also get excused and put on someone else?

I don't get how this guy is like Teflon for some fans.

 

[MOGlLNY]

You contradicted yourself - was Regier good at drafting or was his hockey department, the department originally put together by Muckler?

Does Regier get any blame for driving all the good hockey department people out of Buffalo? It's fine to say it was a directive from ownership/Quinn, but then that makes Regier a spineless jellyfish who won't stand up for his employees.

We know what happened when upper management (allegedly) gave Murray directives, he stood his ground and ultimately got fired for it (i.e. Patty wanting to keep Miller, the Pegulas wanting to fire Bylsma). Again, I stress the word allegedly on these items...

Fun fact - we're still sending out paychecks to two players that Regier signed (yes the Hodgsen one is extenuating circumstances, but still). Does this also get excused and put on someone else?

I don't get how this guy is like Teflon for some fans.

Is it really that hard to figure out why? We are likely going to set the record for longest playoff drought in NHL history and have been a circus the entire way.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

You contradicted yourself - was Regier good at drafting or was his hockey department, the department originally put together by Muckler?

Does Regier get any blame for driving all the good hockey department people out of Buffalo? It's fine to say it was a directive from ownership/Quinn, but then that makes Regier a spineless jellyfish who won't stand up for his employees.

We know what happened when upper management (allegedly) gave Murray directives, he stood his ground and ultimately got fired for it (i.e. Patty wanting to keep Miller, the Pegulas wanting to fire Bylsma). Again, I stress the word allegedly on these items...

Fun fact - we're still sending out paychecks to two players that Regier signed (yes the Hodgsen one is extenuating circumstances, but still). Does this also get excused and put on someone else?

I don't get how this guy is like Teflon for some fans.

Probably because during Regiers tenure with the Sabres only the rangers had more playoff wins in the east. They were a pretty good club for a long time.

With Regier we’re left wondering: could they have won the cup, or made the finals another time?

With Murray we’re wondering if the team could have broken 90 points.

It’s night and f***ing day.

 

[Gras]

Gotta read through this more later, but I was only capable of conscious thought towards the time Regier was doing dumbass shit- how the f*** do you not know Briere wants in and Drury wants out? How the f*** do you not take the 1sts over Vanek? I was, like, 10, the biggest Vanek fan, and even I knew that was a bad move. Dude just kept shooting himself in the foot around that time.

Adams has surprised me so far, but his inability to get an RD is starting to wear on me. We need one piece for playoffs, I don’t care if you have to slightly overpay for Murphy- do it. He’s not even my top target, dude is hurt too much, but it’s blatantly obvious that him playing even half our games would be a massive upgrade- and we’d rather hold onto 2nd round picks that might maybe be something in 4 years. The hell? Just buy now, make yourself look good, and if we miss out on a future Connor Murphy then tough shit.

Darcy had to match the OS for Vanek because the team couldn't lose Briere, Drury and Vanek all in the same offseason.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Darcy had to match the OS for Vanek because the team couldn't lose Briere, Drury and Vanek all in the same offseason.

Ya he could have, because once he royally f***ed the Briere/Drury situation it was all screwed anyways, time for a rebuild. I get that GMs don’t wanna admit that, but I hate seeing a GM save his job for a season or two by putting the team in a worse situation.

 

[Gras]

Ya he could have, because once he royally f***ed the Briere/Drury situation it was all screwed anyways, time for a rebuild. I get that GMs don’t wanna admit that, but I hate seeing a GM save his job for a season or two by putting the team in a worse situation.

It was ownership policy to not talk contracts in season with players, not the fault of Darcy.

 

[SundherDome]

How in the world can you rank Murray ahead of Regier?

Regier had President trophy winner, 3 conference final teams, and a Stanley Cup finalist. All on limited resources and support.

Murray never had a winning season and hasn’t worked in the NHL since.

Botterill was even better than Murray

And Adam’s hasn’t done anything (especially on the back end and goaltending wise) to be ranked ahead of Regier yet. Hopefully he gets there though. He does have potential.

Just no

 

[DustyZ]

Can you imagine if Adams gives up our 2023 first in trade when the draft is as deep as it is?

We will probably pick 8 or 9 and could actually win the lottery and pick Bedard.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

I mean this guy drafted Dahlin, Samuelsson, Cozens, Rousek, UPL and Mitts. Traded for Skinner and Tage. And it's comical he helped build Seattle into a power. Wrong former GM to spew venom towards. The other one set us back 5 years.

 

[old kummelweck]

I mean this guy drafted Dahlin, Samuelsson, Cozens, Rousek, UPL and Mitts. Traded for Skinner and Tage. And it's comical he helped build Seattle into a power. Wrong former GM to spew venom towards. The other one set us back 5 years.

How can the guy who found Sullivan also hire Krueger?

 

[ValJamesDuex]

I mean this guy drafted Dahlin, Samuelsson, Cozens, Rousek, UPL and Mitts. Traded for Skinner and Tage. And it's comical he helped build Seattle into a power. Wrong former GM to spew venom towards. The other one set us back 5 years.

His Sabres press box tantrum seems to been erased from the net.

 

[pigpen65]

I mean this guy drafted Dahlin, Samuelsson, Cozens, Rousek, UPL and Mitts. Traded for Skinner and Tage. And it's comical he helped build Seattle into a power. Wrong former GM to spew venom towards. The other one set us back 5 years.

He also didn't sign Pilut to an extension. And he didn't completely handcuff the Sabres with what would have been a horrible decision to sign Reinhart to a long term big money contract. And he didn't protect Carrier and let Ullmark go to Vegas in the expansion draft. And.... wait. What were we talking about again?

 

[JLewyB]

I mean this guy drafted Dahlin, Samuelsson, Cozens, Rousek, UPL and Mitts. Traded for Skinner and Tage. And it's comical he helped build Seattle into a power. Wrong former GM to spew venom towards. The other one set us back 5 years.

Yup. We should be glad he was incompetent with so much talent.

 

[truthbluth]

I mean this guy drafted Dahlin, Samuelsson, Cozens, Rousek, UPL and Mitts. Traded for Skinner and Tage. And it's comical he helped build Seattle into a power. Wrong former GM to spew venom towards. The other one set us back 5 years.

I get sick of this deliberately misleading stiff.
Drafted Dahlin, tried tonkill his development with the Krueger hire.
Rushed Mitts' development, nearly killing it.
Traded for Skinner, extended him, hired a coach determined to bury Skinner's career.
Traded for Tage (and Svobotka, and Berglund), and then reportedly tried to trade Tage for a 5th.
I mean, I don't love what GMTM did, but Botterill should not g3t credit for much.