Here's the crazy thing: JVR and Bozak scored at approximately same rate with Marner this season as they did with Kessel AND they did last season with neither player. It seems that Marner's greatest impact on the JVR/Bozak line may have been defensively (breakouts and rushes that backed up the opposition defense).
Redraft 2015
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thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
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That's right they performed a little better than average for them. It was like getting a slight upgrade on Kessel but Kessel the individual pots more goals. So it was pretty much the same line with a little better back checking. Marner had a lot of giveaways this season though, first on the team or so.
When you look at giveaways on the NHL.com site, dotted amongst the leaders are usually the best players in the league and future Hall of Famers. The Leafs' leaders in giveaways were their best defensemen: Rielly and Gardiner. This stat is as much correlated to individual puck possession and whether the player is a playmaker or a finisher as anything else.
Nylander had double the takeaways to give aways. You are right giveaways are usually the best players purely based on the best players need the puck but watching some games marners giveaways were unforced errors to use a tennis term. A lot of spin passes or hail Mary's that didn't come off he just needs to tidy that up a bit and he will progress to the star he is destined to be
thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
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Exactly. Often he would even lose the puck haul ass and go get it back. That's not a problem, Mitch is a kid and has an amazingly high ceiling. Not sure about Kane high but high.
LeafingTheWay
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I love the Matthews-Nylander combo but I'd really like Willy to be a C and Marner to be with one of them.
Slot in (skilled-RWs) Marner/Kapanen/Bracco/Brown/Timashov/Korkshov onto the right and (skilled/grinder-LWs) JVR/Johnson/Grundstrom/Leivo/Hyman/Komarov/etc.
xxx - Matthews - xxx
xxx - Nylander - xxx
xxx - Kadri - xxx
xxx - Gauthier - xxx
Slot in (skilled-RWs) Marner/Kapanen/Bracco/Brown/Timashov/Korkshov onto the right and (skilled/grinder-LWs) JVR/Johnson/Grundstrom/Leivo/Hyman/Komarov/etc.
xxx - Matthews - xxx
xxx - Nylander - xxx
xxx - Kadri - xxx
xxx - Gauthier - xxx
thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
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Marner belongs with Kadri and Komarov. Just trust me on this. It should have been done as soon as the Bozak line slumped but Kappy was injured at the time.
Kadri will be our 1C for some time. He plays against teams best lines because he is the best we have. Matthews is enjoying that shelter some and is obviously the better player but, Kadri is pretty awesome as well.
ACC1224
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LeafingTheWay
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That lineup I had above was a long-term plan. Short-term I totally agree with you.
I wanted a Komarov-Kadri-Marner line all season long as well. Komarov would be all over Marner's ass just like he was on Kadris to make him a two-way beast and a future part of a top-line capable of being shutdown. IMO Kapanen would look good on any of Kadri/Matthews/Willy's lines, leaving Bracco/Brown/Timashov/Korkshov to take the other two spots.
thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
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Same, see it very much like a training assignment. Fully expect to see it happen too!
LeafsNation75
Registered User
If that's true the Leafs were still not getting Provorov since he went 7th overall to the Flyers. That is assuming the Leafs and Blue Jackets make the trade and move down to the 8th overall selection. Plus from that video it seems the Blue Jackets really liked Werenski more than Hanifin, because if they were willing to make the trade they could have had either one at 4th overall.
Personally speaking I was very happy with them selecting Marner and don't regret it for a second.
thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
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During the draft rumor was we would trade back for Werenski or Provorov but we didn't.
ACC1224
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Not true. They had Hanifin ahead but not enough that they wouldn't have taken Provorov plus the picks obtain instead of just taking Hanifin. Of course this was only if Arizona took Marner.
Duffman955
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Marner, Provorov, Werenski are all neck-neck in terms of performance and potential. Ill throw Hanifin in that group as well, although the others had a better year.
Bracco isn't close... and won't be for a long time IMO. I would love to be wrong though!
LeafsNation75
Registered User
Maybe I'm wrong but among them wasn't Hanifin mentioned as being the most NHL ready among them to play full time following his draft year.
CabanaBoy5
Registered User
Stephen
Moderator
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Jeremy Bracco is probably more like "meh, whatever" at this point. Wouldn't be surprised if they targeted him hoping he'd boom as a D+1 prospect the way Carolina's Sebastian Aho exploded the past two years, but his junior numbers aren't great, his frame isn't projectible. We also have more versatile forwards, more high end forwards. Just not much there other than maybe a long term dark horse.
FuelTheJet
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2014
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Honestly I think Provorov isn't anywhere close to Marner or Werenski.
Marner, Werenski
Hanifin
Provorov
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
In a redraft I still take Marner but I would swap Dermott with Brandon Carlo, because 6'5 RHD 
Stephen
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I think it's probably something like
Werenski/Marner
Provorov
Hanifin.
The calculation for Marner/Werenski today is the similar to Marner/Hanifin as at the draft. Taking position, organizational need and size into consideration, Marner likely has a higher absolute peak than Werenski. Marner at 100% realized potential is better than Werenski at 100%, because you're talking about an absolute franchise forward, Patrick Kane type guy. But if you think Marner doesn't hit that peak potential, and the closer he falls towards a Jordan Eberle type baseline, then Werenski becomes the more important player, because his range of impactfulness as an elite skating two way defenseman is greater than a small scoring winger.
2015 was not an easy decision to make, and I think we'll be watching a decade or more without a definitive answer.
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Provorov is good but Marner is more talented. Going back in time I still take Marner. Was so pumped when Arizona took Strome and Marner was ours.
Nithoniniel
Registered User
We should be happy that we hit with our pick, not nitpicking on if anyone was even better. That's like running a marathon, and then worry if you looked good as you crossed the finish line. We achieved our goal, leave the details behind.
Trapper
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
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We are very lucky with hit with our picks and hit on the years those players were available.
We had 2 1st round picks in 2011 remember. How are they doing?
Stephen
Moderator
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It's interesting to think about how certain mistakes that happened before a rebuild started could have changed the course of things. Imagine we had taken some combination of two of Jenner/Saad/Gibson/Rakell. Those guys were probably too young to really impact any of the finishes in 2014, 2015 or 2016 too dramatically, but man the 2017 Leafs would have been terrifying.
