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Rebuild Status - # 1 Dman

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Not really that easy to project who will be a 1D. At a minimum, of course we can get an idea of who will be good and who will be bad, but you need to be more open to different thoughts. Kind of like building a foundation, everything has to go into it, some things are weighted more than others. Like when I see Neal Pionk, I see a guy who is probably a good 3rd pairing d-man. And I'm not saying that everyone needs to think that or that I'm definitely right, that's just what I see. Do I understand that not everyone feels that way, of course. Admittedly, I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again. Like with JT, had that guy half-right and half-wrong; shit happens.
 
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Let's spin this around, let's assume we have already drafted that #1 Dman, which of our D prospects is it most likely?

I think if Miller puts it all together, size, speed, poise, O and D he'd be our Hedman.
 
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silverfish said:
Not really that easy to project who will be a 1D. At a minimum, of course we can get an idea of who will be good and who will be bad, but you need to be more open to different thoughts. Kind of like building a foundation, everything has to go into it, some things are weighted more than others. Like when I see Neal Pionk, I see a guy who is probably a good 3rd pairing d-man. And I'm not saying that everyone needs to think that or that I'm definitely right, that's just what I see. Do I understand that not everyone feels that way, of course. Admittedly, I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again. Like with JT, had that guy half-right and half-wrong; **** happens.
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It was better when you lined up each sentence to spell it out.
3/10 post, nerd.
 
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silverfish said:
Not really that easy to project who will be a 1D. At a minimum, of course we can get an idea of who will be good and who will be bad, but you need to be more open to different thoughts. Kind of like building a foundation, everything has to go into it, some things are weighted more than others. Like when I see Neal Pionk, I see a guy who is probably a good 3rd pairing d-man. And I'm not saying that everyone needs to think that or that I'm definitely right, that's just what I see. Do I understand that not everyone feels that way, of course. Admittedly, I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again. Like with JT, had that guy half-right and half-wrong; **** happens.
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You’re a real sick ****, man.

:laugh:
 
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Inferno said:
Honestly I think it's DeAngelo who has the highest chance of being a #1 defenseman.
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It's still a low chance. Skjei is already a top4 NHLD, maybe his ceiling isn't a #1. DeAngelo looks like he might not have an NHL career right now.

Unlikely, but maybe Hajek/Miller/Lundkvist/Lindgren can be the guy. Way too early to know. And the Rangers will probably acquire more D prospects in the near future.
 
Of the guys in the system, I'm not sure who would be a #1

Miller if he hits his potential can be a #2 I think. Lundkvist a #3 a la Stralman.

Lindgren will top out at a #4. DeAngelo has the offensive skills to be perceived as a #1, but he needs to shore up the rest of his game

Hajek is a rock solid guy who is probably gonna settle in at a #2/#3 who anchors a pair

I think they'll look to address that in the next draft/summer cycle. They have the resources to identify a guy who they can draft/may be playing for another team, and they have the pieces to go get them.

The key with finding a 1D is identifying them before they hit
 
To me a legit #1 D does everything. He plays 25-30 minutes a night. He's capable of 50 point seasons. He's a mainstay on your powerplay--your go to defenseman at even strength in all situations and also is reliable enough defensively to get regular penalty killing time. You want his ass out on the ice every time in the last minute of any one goal game or in all critical situations.

Skjei and Shattenkirk are the closest we have right now to meeting that description but Skjei is unproven as far a power play guy and though better than practically every other defender we have at defending he's still inconsistent defensively. I definitely think he could play 25-30 minutes though if he were asked. Shattenkirk plain and simple is at best an average defender and though not a guy I'd be afraid to use killing penalties--he certainly wouldn't be my first choice and I don't think I'd want him playing 25-30 minutes a night---maybe 20-22.

Staal and Smith are best when they're keeping things simple and just defending.

Which brings us to the kids. Pionk showed a pretty rounded game but on a decent team--he's a third pairing RD right now. DeAngelo is the slickest D we have with the puck but he's about the last defenseman I'd want killing a penalty. I'd be estatic if Pionk turned into Torey Krug--who isn't without his issues. DeAngelo I'm not sure about. Claesson's a stay at home guy. Kampfer--a career 7D NHL/AHL tweener. O'Gara's strictly a stay at home guy--kind of a lesser Nick Holden. Gilmour improved a lot from pro season 1 to pro season 2 but with the Rangers he's just an adventure or a riverboat gambler. He's got to learn to play D better if he has any hope of becoming an NHL player.
 
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OrlandK said:
Add DeAngelo and Pionk who lets assume at least one turns out to be a top 4 for us.

This is pie in the sky/rose colored glasses thinking. This is ADA's last chance to show he can play at the NHL level. For all his impressive skill set he has bombed out with 3 teams already. He has a 2nd shot with us due to the new regime and dire need. Hopefully he takes advantage and/or figures it out.

Pionk was a pleasant surprise and hopefully he can build on it. He was an unheralded (=mediocre skill set) who played pretty well and has a shot. His underlying analytics numbers were poor but he was on a train wreck of a defense playing with a pylon so who knows.

How that equates to at least one top four d-man is beyond me. We have a lot of decent prospects so we should have a solid bottom four d in a few years. Remains to be seen if one makes it to top pair - would be very lucky if so. I suspect when Rangers are closer to the end of the rebuild we'll sign a Trouba-like FA to fill out the d-core. Really a disservice to Shatty to have to play top pair. Minimizes what he brings to the table which is a lot.
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Deangelo didn’t bomb out of teams. He was a highly regarded talent who lit up the AHL and was traded to another team where he did ok and then had another ok year with us... there’s a reason why Arizona and New York traded for the kid.. he’s still very young.
 
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Inferno said:
Honestly I think it's DeAngelo who has the highest chance of being a #1 defenseman.
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Totally, highest ‘ceiling’ for sure. Imagine he becomes a dynamite, rat of an OFD?! That would be HUGE.

Could potentially be a more skilled, D version of.. dare I say..... Avery (whom I saw the other day btw on 7th & 56).

I am rooting for this kid so hard, if he blossoms, whoa.
 
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eco's bones said:
To me a legit #1 D does everything. He plays 25-30 minutes a night. He's capable of 50 point seasons. He's a mainstay on your powerplay--your go to defenseman at even strength in all situations and also is reliable enough defensively to get regular penalty killing time. You want his ass out on the ice every time in the last minute of any one goal game or in all critical situations.
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Perfect way to describe it. Not just reliable enough defensively, but rock solid. No sheltered minutes. Plays in all critical defensive situations.
 
That's not a #1D. That's basically a first or second team all star D. There are seven defenseman that met that criteria last year. There were three the year before. Nine the year before that.

Here's your list of players the last 3 years that played 25+ mins and had 50+ points while playing PP/PK:

Burns x 2
Byfuglien x 2
Doughty x 2
Hedman
Josi
Karlsson x 3
Keith
Letang x 2
Pietrangelo
Subban
Suter x 2
Weber
 
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True Blue said:
Perfect way to describe it. Not just reliable enough defensively, but rock solid. No sheltered minutes. Plays in all critical defensive situations.
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Well there are differences between those who I'd call legit No. 1 D's. Victor Hedman is better defensively than Erik Karlsson but Karlsson is definitely good enough and better than Hedman offensively. Other examples--Doughty, Subban, Keith (and Chara in his better days) play all situations and very well. It's why when I look at what the Rangers have at the NHL level--the AHL level I don't see the guy that's going to do all those things. I suppose Hajek could emerge or Skjei will take a big step in the absence of McDonagh but those things remain to be seen. I don't think it's happening with Pionk, DeAngelo or Lindgren though. I think all those guys can become very good NHL players but I think their upside is 2nd pairing D at best and even for someone like a Hajek or a Rykov to emerge it's going to be a process of them reaching that and not guaranteed in either case.

I like the depth and I like a lot of these guys but to me we've got about 7 or 8 guys who could be 2nd pairing worthy defensemen in the next 4-5 years but none of them screams 1st pairing to me.
 
NYRFANMANI said:
Let's spin this around, let's assume we have already drafted that #1 Dman, which of our D prospects is it most likely?

I think if Miller puts it all together, size, speed, poise, O and D he'd be our Hedman.
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None of them. I don't think any of them have 1D upside.
 
Vinny DeAngelo said:
Deangelo didn’t bomb out of teams. He was a highly regarded talent who lit up the AHL and was traded to another team where he did ok and then had another ok year with us... there’s a reason why Arizona and New York traded for the kid.. he’s still very young.
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There is also a reason why Tampa let him go after a good ahl season at a loss. They’re a great team at selling off young assets when they still appear valuable. Why move a former 1st for a second? Why move a talented former 3rd overall for a d, great move for them btw. I’m not saying Anthony has no value but he has plenty to prove and on a rebuilding team is far from guaranteed a spot. A young D like Hajek could easily steal his spot at some point if he’s proving to be more competent in his own zone.



Regarding #1 d thing, does it really matter? Sure grab a player of that type if you’re able to but i’d still rather focus on high high end offensive players. If you have that and competent d depth then I’d argue you don’t need a true #1 d. Look at the recent cup finalists, some had that d and won and some didn’t and won.
 
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Rongomania said:
Truth.

Habs got so hosed on that trade, not even funny.
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wrong-wrong-wrong-wrong-wrong-wrong-wrong-wrong-youre-wrong-13932889.png
 
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Chris Drurys Weekend said:
Defensemen aren't the only players on the team who impact defensive performance.

AV's system was more conducive to D being left on an island than our two previous regimes.
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Thank you. Defense is a team effort. Need all five skaters working together in all areas of the ice.
 
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