Rebuild Status - # 1 Dman

[OrlandK]

The Rangers have arguably one of the worst D units in the NHL. The Islanders are right there with them. Jeff Gorton has his work cut out for him. He knows that. Gorton acquired so many D in the deadline trades. Hajek. Lindgren. Rykov. They used two first round picks on Miller and Lundkvist. This an organization which used #1 picks on Staal,Sanguinetti and Del Zotto. They traded for another #1 pick in McDonagh. They used a 2nd on Sauer. The Rangers need to rebuild their D.

The Vegas sports book should put out an over/under on how many times Lundqvist loses his mind playing behind the Rangers current group this season.

Yup - easy for Henrik to say he is all in on the rebuild in the off season. Wait until reality sets in that he has the worst D in the league in front of him. He lost his mind last year at times from the lack of structure. He ain't seen nothing yet.

 

[kovazub94]

....

As for the Rangers and the No. 1 d-man issue---they don't have a legit #1D and IMO they don't have one coming at the moment. That isn't to say the Rangers are bereft of coming talent on the blueline. Skjei, Hajek, Lindgren, Rykov, Miller, Lundkvist, Pionk, DeAngelo etc.--that's a lot of talent and the Rangers should in a few years have a pretty good D but I don't see any one of these guys getting even to Ryan McDonagh status and he was kind of a middling No. 1 D. Looking through the Hockey News list though--there are a number of teams who don't have a great top defenseman either.

I think we need to remind ourselves that McD didn’t gain a status of a prospect with #1D potential until probably a year after turning pro and maybe even two. Until then he was a prospect with a top4 potential. Right now the Rangers have 4-7 D prospects at a different stages in their development who have the same status. This group could just have our future #1D, we just don’t know it yet.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

• Skating of Gilmour
• Other skills of other hockey players

 

[CommaSynapse]

Closest thing we have is Skjei, and he's not a #1.

We have a lot of guys who could be good d-men, but no #1 guys. But that's fine. Build up the overall depth of the system and that leaves us with a higher number of potentially positive outcomes.

1) Plenty of chips that might develop further than we think.
2) Plenty of depth to work through injuries/guys who bust/trades/etc.
3) Plenty of trade chips if we end up with a multitude of "good but not great" types.
4) Cap space to sign a true #1 as a UFA if we have a steady pipeline of guys we can plug in on cheaper contracts.
5) More leeway to risk spending a pick on a boom/bust types.

Time will tell.

 

[NYR]

Weber hasn't been a true #1 for half a decade.

Shattenkirk has never been a #1...Like EVER lol

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

The Rangers have arguably one of the worst D units in the NHL. The Islanders are right there with them. Jeff Gorton has his work cut out for him. He knows that. Gorton acquired so many D in the deadline trades. Hajek. Lindgren. Rykov. They used two first round picks on Miller and Lundkvist. This an organization which used #1 picks on Staal,Sanguinetti and Del Zotto. They traded for another #1 pick in McDonagh. They used a 2nd on Sauer. The Rangers need to rebuild their D.

The Vegas sports book should put out an over/under on how many times Lundqvist loses his mind playing behind the Rangers current group this season.

we are rebuilding our D if you paid attention to this draft and trades.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

The Rangers have arguably one of the worst D units in the NHL. The Islanders are right there with them. Jeff Gorton has his work cut out for him. He knows that. Gorton acquired so many D in the deadline trades. Hajek. Lindgren. Rykov. They used two first round picks on Miller and Lundkvist. This an organization which used #1 picks on Staal,Sanguinetti and Del Zotto. They traded for another #1 pick in McDonagh. They used a 2nd on Sauer. The Rangers need to rebuild their D.

The Vegas sports book should put out an over/under on how many times Lundqvist loses his mind playing behind the Rangers current group this season.

Does he really have his work cut out for him? Seems like he did a pretty damn good job setting up the pieces by acquiring/drafting Hajek, Lindrgen, Rykov, Lundkvist, and Miller over the last 6 months. Add DeAngelo and Pionk who lets assume at least one turns out to be a top 4 for us. Add in Shatty, Skjei as your 2-3 defenseman, and Staal as your 5-6 then the only work he has for him in being patient with the first 5 players I named and see what happens with them (which is absolutely impossible to predict this early but most have at least top 4 potential).

In 2-3 years you have Shatty, Skjei, Pionk/DeAngelo, and 2 or 3 of Hajek, Lindrgen, Rykov, Lundkvist, and Miller. Seems like the only work he has in store for him in trying to get a top defenseman like every team is, but who knows, one of the prospect may emerge as that. And in 2-3 years you have more drafted defenseman that will continue being added in the pipeline. I'm just not seeing where all this work is Gorton has to still do, seems likes he did the heavy lifting already.

 

[Thirty One]

Shattenkirk has never been a #1...Like EVER lol

LMAO classic!

 

[tradenashnow]

Rangers are loaded with talented defenseman prospects. The defenseman core will not be a problem for decade. AV was an atrocious coach implementing a defensive system.

 

[Inferno]

Does he really have his work cut out for him? Seems like he did a pretty damn good job setting up the pieces by acquiring/drafting Hajek, Lindrgen, Rykov, Lundkvist, and Miller over the last 6 months. Add DeAngelo and Pionk who lets assume at least one turns out to be a top 4 for us. Add in Shatty, Skjei as your 2-3 defenseman, and Staal as your 5-6 then the only work he has for him in being patient with the first 5 players I named and see what happens with them (which is absolutely impossible to predict this early but most have at least top 4 potential).

In 2-3 years you have Shatty, Skjei, Pionk/DeAngelo, and 2 or 3 of Hajek, Lindrgen, Rykov, Lundkvist, and Miller. Seems like the only work he has in store for him in trying to get a top defenseman like every team is, but who knows, one of the prospect may emerge as that. And in 2-3 years you have more drafted defenseman that will continue being added in the pipeline. I'm just not seeing where all this work is Gorton has to still do, seems likes he did the heavy lifting already.

We need scoring wingers way more than defenseman imho.

 

[eco's bones]

The way I look at our defense corps is there is very good talent but a lot of inexperience and the inexperience shows up most on the defending side. That said Quinn could tighten up things at least to some degree just by installing a more zone defensive scheme and/or getting the forwards more involved on the backcheck. That kind of style would cut down on goals against but likely we won't score as many either. It would keep Henrik from losing his mind so much. Work for those tighter 2-1, 3-2 games where you keep the game close thereby giving yourself a chance.

 

[LORDE]

Seems as if Gorts is going the defend by committee routine. Getting a clear #1 isn’t easy. But if we have three second pairs eventually how bad would that be?

Maybe that’s the concept unless we get lucky

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

How many of the “#1 D” in the league were drafted with the expectations of being such?

Not many. Most of the ones who were and have hit were Swedes.

 

[ElLeetch]

I liked going for impact forward with the Kravtsov pick, but i would have loved it even more if we had packaged the 26 and 28 to get 8th or 10th to grab one of the big name Ds (Dobson/Bouchard/Boqvist)

I just like the "spectrum" of Dobson/Hajek/Lindrgen/Rykov than i do Miller+Lindqvist/Hajek/Lindrgen/Rykov

Yes, its one less 'chip' but it gives us a higher upside.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The team with those picks needs to be willing to make a trade too.

Bouchard is meh. Dobson unfortunately has a real shot at being a legit all situations stud.

 

[OrlandK]

Add DeAngelo and Pionk who lets assume at least one turns out to be a top 4 for us.

This is pie in the sky/rose colored glasses thinking. This is ADA's last chance to show he can play at the NHL level. For all his impressive skill set he has bombed out with 3 teams already. He has a 2nd shot with us due to the new regime and dire need. Hopefully he takes advantage and/or figures it out.

Pionk was a pleasant surprise and hopefully he can build on it. He was an unheralded (=mediocre skill set) who played pretty well and has a shot. His underlying analytics numbers were poor but he was on a train wreck of a defense playing with a pylon so who knows.

How that equates to at least one top four d-man is beyond me. We have a lot of decent prospects so we should have a solid bottom four d in a few years. Remains to be seen if one makes it to top pair - would be very lucky if so. I suspect when Rangers are closer to the end of the rebuild we'll sign a Trouba-like FA to fill out the d-core. Really a disservice to Shatty to have to play top pair. Minimizes what he brings to the table which is a lot.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Add DeAngelo and Pionk who lets assume at least one turns out to be a top 4 for us.

This is pie in the sky/rose colored glasses thinking. This is ADA's last chance to show he can play at the NHL level. For all his impressive skill set he has bombed out with 3 teams already. He has a 2nd shot with us due to the new regime and dire need. Hopefully he takes advantage and/or figures it out.

Pionk was a pleasant surprise and hopefully he can build on it. He was an unheralded (=mediocre skill set) who played pretty well and has a shot. His underlying analytics numbers were poor but he was on a train wreck of a defense playing with a pylon so who knows.

How that equates to at least one top four d-man is beyond me. We have a lot of decent prospects so we should have a solid bottom four d in a few years. Remains to be seen if one makes it to top pair - would be very lucky if so. I suspect when Rangers are closer to the end of the rebuild we'll sign a Trouba-like FA to fill out the d-core. Really a disservice to Shatty to have to play top pair. Minimizes what he brings to the table which is a lot.

This is absurd.

Tampa obviously had given up on him for reasons outside of what he did on the ice and its not like Arizona gave him away.

 

[OrlandK]

Then why did ADA stink when he was sent to the Wolfpack last season? He should have dominated in the AHL at this point of his career, after failing again (with almost no competition) with us. 13 points in 29 games along with this usual defensive struggles.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Add DeAngelo and Pionk who lets assume at least one turns out to be a top 4 for us.

This is pie in the sky/rose colored glasses thinking. This is ADA's last chance to show he can play at the NHL level. For all his impressive skill set he has bombed out with 3 teams already. He has a 2nd shot with us due to the new regime and dire need. Hopefully he takes advantage and/or figures it out.

Pionk was a pleasant surprise and hopefully he can build on it. He was an unheralded (=mediocre skill set) who played pretty well and has a shot. His underlying analytics numbers were poor but he was on a train wreck of a defense playing with a pylon so who knows.

How that equates to at least one top four d-man is beyond me. We have a lot of decent prospects so we should have a solid bottom four d in a few years. Remains to be seen if one makes it to top pair - would be very lucky if so. I suspect when Rangers are closer to the end of the rebuild we'll sign a Trouba-like FA to fill out the d-core. Really a disservice to Shatty to have to play top pair. Minimizes what he brings to the table which is a lot.

Haha what?

Only in HF land can a 22 year old be up to his last chance to show he can play in the NHL. Couldn't even be bothered to read the rest of your post after that.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Then why did ADA stink when he was sent to the Wolfpack last season? He should have dominated in the AHL at this point of his career, after failing again (with almost no competition) with us. 13 points in 29 games along with this usual defensive struggles.

Why did he play well after he was called back up before he went down with an injury?

 

[OrlandK]

By what measure did he play well. Look at his stats. Look at the comments of virtually all neutral observers. It simply didn't happen.

I heard an interesting podcast recently where both commentators (Craig Custance and Corey Pronman) where addressing how much fans overrate their teams prospects based on hometown hype and whatever else. Pronman does his objective and incredibly detailed team prospect evaluations (Rangers went from 29 to 11 in one year!) and virtually every fan base gives him grief for not rating their prospects higher.

There really is no debate about what ADA has been so far in his career - quite a consensus that he has not played up to his apparent skill set or even satisfactorily; or at least not since 2014-15 in the OHL.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Actually, the neutral stats suggest that he was excellent.

The "hard" stats are the ones that suggest otherwise, but we know that those aren't always accurate.

Pronman is an ass hat.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Actually, the neutral stats suggest that he was excellent.

The "hard" stats are the ones that suggest otherwise, but we know that those aren't always accurate.

Pronman is an ass hat.

These are the same neutral stats that thought Clendening and McIlrath were great. He's an offensive defensemen. He came here for his points. He didn't score any, and his defense wasn't any better than advertised.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

These are the same neutral stats that thought Clendening and McIlrath were great. He's an offensive defensemen. He came here for his points. He didn't score any, and his defense wasn't any better than advertised.

Yeah they're the same stats that also loves guys like Franson and Tom Gilbert.

I'm aware that they aren't the be all end all, but there is a thing called bad luck - DeAngelo suffered from it last year.

Ya'll gonna be shocked when he kills it this season.

 

[Machinehead]

These are the same neutral stats that thought Clendening and McIlrath were great. He's an offensive defensemen. He came here for his points. He didn't score any, and his defense wasn't any better than advertised.

It's not a question of "great" as much as it is succeeding in a role.

DeAngelo was an extremely effective third pairing defenseman last year. That doesn't mean he should move up in the lineup (Clendening did and got hammered) but he's a better option that say, Rob O'Gara, who played even softer competition and got destroyed by it somehow.

Conversely, players with difficult usage can murder puppies and get away with it.