Rebuild/Restructure and What does that look like?

[cbcwpg]

Canucks fan coming in with as much peace as a opposing fan can come with.


Are you guys excited for this retool?

We have the wrong tool in charge of the retool IMO, but it's the tool we are stuck with, so just hoping for the best result.

 

[cbcwpg]

Working hard at the Scouting Combine...

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Working hard at the Scouting Combine...

Working hard or... you know how that sentence ends.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah, the Jets tend to leak some stuff to Dregger but not really anyone else.

Do "the Jets" leak it? Or does Dreger have a source?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Hamilton obviously doesn't have any insights or information about the Jets and their plans. He's just parroting stuff he's heard or seen on social media.

He suggested that the Jets might only trade Hellebuyck, keeping Dubois, Scheifele and Wheeler. So, you can take Hamilton's views with a grain of salt.

lol
Just as it doesn't make sense to keep Helle if both PLD and Scheifele are gone, it doesn't make sense to keep PLD and Scheifele if Helle is gone.

It might, just possibly, maybe make sense to keep Scheifele if the other 2 are gone, depending on the contract it takes to keep him.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

how?

Really?
How not?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I get doing that with Scheifele, but trying to deal Helle only at the deadline would be just about the dumbest idea imaginable, because 1) if a team needs goaltending in March, they're likely not a buyer anyway, and 2) we all know that Chevy is going to talk himself into "one last run" and keep Helle for our own playoff push, whatever that looks like.

I'm not advocating for that but I could see Chevy doing it. TD values are always inflated. We might actually get better returns.

There are always a few teams who think they can make a run in the PO with an upgrade in net.

I can't say how that would turn out, only that Chevy might try it. The hope would be that things come together magically and Jets get a good PO run with them. If not, they fall back to dealing them at the TD.

Personally, I think PO is a vain hope but the TD returns might be good.

 

[surixon]

Do "the Jets" leak it? Or does Dreger have a source?

It was mentioned somewhere they leak some stuff to him for information. Can't remember where it was said.

 

[BoneDocUK]

It was mentioned somewhere they leak some stuff to him for information. Can't remember where it was said.

It's been pretty widely reported and repeated by the local sports media that Chevy and Dreger are mates and that if anything's going to leak with the Jets it's coming via him -- the exception that might prove the rule was the 2022 Chevy extension, which Wiebe broke at a less than ideal time, and which I expect the org and Chevy himself would rather have kept quiet for a while.

So no guarantees, but the preponderance of evidence suggests that if Dreger is talking / breaking Jets news, it's going to be official or very near.

 

[DRW204]

I agree.
If you're a PO or cup bound team you have goaltending likely covered.

Maybe a fringe team moves a 1st+ for Helle at the tdl to give them a push.

I also think goalies may need a lot of reps with their new team so perhaps bringing a new guy in at the tdl and having exceptional results isn't guaranteed.

Helle should be moved in the offseason. I think Scheifele is higher likelihood of being kept, and possibly moved at the tdl

I get doing that with Scheifele, but trying to deal Helle only at the deadline would be just about the dumbest idea imaginable, because 1) if a team needs goaltending in March, they're likely not a buyer anyway, and 2) we all know that Chevy is going to talk himself into "one last run" and keep Helle for our own playoff push, whatever that looks like.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

They were able to bring Pavelski,Marchment,Suter,Miller etc.. we just can't do that with UFAs. When you can add depth like that you can be really good.

We signed Gagner and Stenlund this year. Were never going to be able to do what a Dallas can do. Find guys at those levels that will sign to augment your roster.

True that Dallas has done pretty well with some of those FA signings but that is not generally all that successful. So many FAs are past their primes and get paid for past performance rather than current or future that many turn into boat-anchor contracts. They tend to be short term gain for long term pain.

It isn't only about being able to attract FAs. Dallas has signed the right FAs, at least recently.

 

[ps241]

Do "the Jets" leak it? Or does Dreger have a source?

TNSE use Dreger to leak from
Time to time.

 

[cbcwpg]

Other than PLD, whom it appears has to be moved now, Chevy could decide based on the contracts that players are currently under, to "go for it" again with the mostly same roster. Helly does not have to be traded at this point in time, neither does Chef, nor Wheeler.... We could go into next season with a "let's see how it goes" and then if it goes bad , start trading guys approach. Nothing is out of the realm of possibilities with the Jets management.

I just want to see Chevy make some kind of player move now just to get my hopes up that he won't kick the can down the road again. Until something happens, kicking the can down the road is still a possibility, and I don't want to see that.

 

[Whileee]

Thinking a bit about trade options, I don't think it would be a bad idea to take a good pending UFA or two back if it helps balance the cap, and hang onto pending UFAs. An example might be Arvidsson from the Kings, while keeping Dillon and DeMelo.

If the team shocks and makes a playoff run, so be it.

If they say out of the playoff race, the Jets could have some very good rentals for the TDL to fill their coffers with draft picks: Dillon, DeMelo, Arvidsson, etc.

 

[ps241]

True that Dallas has done pretty well with some of those FA signings but that is not generally all that successful. So many FAs are past their primes and get paid for past performance rather than current or future that many turn into boat-anchor contracts. They tend to be short term gain for long term pain.

It isn't only about being able to attract FAs. Dallas has signed the right FAs, at least recently.

It’s helped a bit to augment. Pavelski has driven true value but with Dallas they are back in the mix because of drafting.

Franchise Goalie, franchise D man, and 2/3 of their top line all came from two draft classes (two of them being second round picks).

 

[ps241]

Thinking a bit about trade options, I don't think it would be a bad idea to take a good pending UFA or two back if it helps balance the cap, and hang onto pending UFAs. An example might be Arvidsson from the Kings, while keeping Dillon and DeMelo.

If the team shocks and makes a playoff run, so be it.

If they say out of the playoff race, the Jets could have some very good rentals for the TDL to fill their coffers with draft picks: Dillon, DeMelo, Arvidsson, etc.

Also it might sweeten the value of the trade to take on the cap dump. I would be in favour then we hold and flip at the TD (or use as own rental).

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think we are arguing semantics. To me a rebuild is when you trade now pieces for futures and rest your teams age group and bottom out for a fee years.

To me a retool is when you make changes to your current core with th goal of staying competitive.

Yes, it definitely is semantics. But semantics are important to communication. I think it works better if we stop trying quite so hard to draw that line defining a difference.
But if we must have the distinction, I would say it is a rebuild if you substantially revamp your core. It is a retool if you change out the supporting cast. You may also tinker with the core a bit in a retool but not make major changes to it.

If Jets move out 2 top 6 Cs and a top 5 in the league goalie, I call it a rebuild. If they move out 1 of those 3 and maybe make a few lesser moves it could be a retool.

The goal of the moves could also affect the definition. As you say, if the goal is to remain competitive you could still call it a retool with more major changes.

In the Jets case this off-season, you have to ask yourself if they are that competitive to begin with. Then consider the chances of moving out those 3 without becoming even less competitive. I see near zero chance of moving them, or even any 2 of them, and not becoming less competitive than we were last year.

I think the goal has to be to get better than we were last year. I don't think that is possible in the short term. So we have to look to mostly futures. That makes it a rebuild in my book.

 

[surixon]

Thinking a bit about trade options, I don't think it would be a bad idea to take a good pending UFA or two back if it helps balance the cap, and hang onto pending UFAs. An example might be Arvidsson from the Kings, while keeping Dillon and DeMelo.

If the team shocks and makes a playoff run, so be it.

If they say out of the playoff race, the Jets could have some very good rentals for the TDL to fill their coffers with draft picks: Dillon, DeMelo, Arvidsson, etc.

Yup, you get an Arviddson and we potentially have him, Nino, DeMelo and Dillion to peddle for picks at the deadline. Should be able to get atleast a couple of 2nds and other mid round picks.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don’t think any of these guys will be happy campers with a plan of playing out the season with the plan of being a TDL chip. If you want a new direction Chevy needs to be decisive and make changes now. Playing it back begs for another season of dysfunction and likely a growing list of unhappy players.

I agree. Change should have been made last off-season, if not earlier. Now, I think it is imperative.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I would welcome that strategy. I can see Chevy trying it. Of course the goal at the start of the season would not be TD deals. It would be a good season with a satisfying PO run followed by extending those players. I don't think that is realistic.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

lol
Just as it doesn't make sense to keep Helle if both PLD and Scheifele are gone, it doesn't make sense to keep PLD and Scheifele if Helle is gone.

It might, just possibly, maybe make sense to keep Scheifele if the other 2 are gone, depending on the contract it takes to keep him.

Keeping 55 under any circumstances, conditions, scenarios whatsoever absolutely and unequivocally makes no sense to me, but of course, my opinion of him tends to be a tad lower than how others perceive him.

 

[Buffdog]

Keeping 55 under any circumstances, conditions, scenarios whatsoever absolutely and unequivocally makes no sense to me, but of course, my opinion of him tends to be a tad lower than how others perceive him.

Depends on the return on the PLD and Helle trades and his salary ask

1Cs and/or 40 goal scorers don't grow on trees. Besides, once wheels is gone, people around here will beed a contract to bitch about

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I doubt TNSE uses a term like "re-tool".

They basically have a couple of tracks if they are moving on from a few core players: 1) go "scorched earth" and tank and gamble that they'll get some lottery luck, and rebuild over a 6 or 7 year timeline; 2) try to makes good trades that restructure the roster around a younger core, while adding picks to add talent in the pipeline.

Either way, they need to hit on some top talent in the draft. They were able to build a strong core through the draft without sinking right to the bottom (Scheifele, Trouba, Morrissey, Ehlers, Connor, Hellebuyck, Perfetti). The only lottery bonanza was Laine, and he wasn't a franchise saviour, nor was Dubois. A later pick in 2016 might have actually been more valuable, if they could have acquired a stud D like Sergachev, MacAvoy or Chychrun.

Regardless, I expect them to make some big trades, but try to acquire younger players that might be ready to have a bigger impact, along with picks to give them a few more shots at top-end talent. I'm dreaming of a couple of drafts like the Stars' when they got Hintz, Oettinger and Robertson with late 1st and 2nd round picks.

Putting together a contender is always a dubious proposition, and I'm not sure there are any surefire formulas. You need a good strategy, good scouting (amateur and pro), and a lot of luck.

That last paragraph hits the nail on the head.

Especially going into such a strong draft, I feel more comfortable and confident going after 1st rd picks. Obviously, the earlier the better. But the timeline of that strategy is worrisome.

I'm also happy with recently drafted prospects. They are a little more certain than picks, having gone through some post-draft development, but still have upside. And they will be NHL ready that much sooner so the timeline is less of an issue. Slightly older, more developed young players are safer again but will lack upside. The ones who are developing to their high upsides aren't available.

I agree that Jets will go for NHL roster players or near ready prospects along with picks. They will try to minimize the step back. It may or may not work out well. The devil is in the details. It is always about execution.

 

[drumzan]

TNSE use Dreger to leak from
Time to time.

Dreger was on CJOB today and said he’s been accused of being a pipeline to the Jets. Didn’t seem happy about it either.

But I mean… the guy breaks all Jets news. So… LOL

 

[Maukkis]

I agree.
If you're a PO or cup bound team you have goaltending likely covered.

Maybe a fringe team moves a 1st+ for Helle at the tdl to give them a push.

I also think goalies may need a lot of reps with their new team so perhaps bringing a new guy in at the tdl and having exceptional results isn't guaranteed.

Helle should be moved in the offseason. I think Scheifele is higher likelihood of being kept, and possibly moved at the tdl

I reckon the ideal scenario is that Helle/Dubois/Dillon get moved in the summer, Scheifele at the deadline, and Wheeler is a bonus if he ends up going.

My actual prediction is that Dubois gets moved in the summer, Wheeler doesn't at all, Scheifele moves at the deadline, and Chevy botches trading Helle and Dillon completely and they walk as UFAs.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah it wise to spread out the deals but things could get messy quickly.

This is likely why the team wants hockey trades over futures trades. So a dirth of players aren't lining up at the door wanting out because their prime years are being wasted.

Yes, absolutely.

BUT - will the players they get back in 'hockey trades' be good enough to avoid wasting those prime years of those left behind?

This list looks like a pretty good start, on paper. But what if - Perfetti is injury prone, Gus hasn't looked good at all lately, Barron is not a core player, Samberg, Lambert can't translate to pro hockey, Lucius is injury prone, Chibrikov, McGroarty, Heinola never develops the speed and strength he needs, Gawanke shouldn't be on the list, Chisholm is also not a core player.

Not trying to be negative here, just realistic. Heinola could do the right work and take off. The injury bugs could be behind Perfetti and Lucius. But we are still going to need to hit on some more draft picks or get some luck in those hockey trades, or both.

I will be happy to see some moves with potential though. As long as that is there I won't mind waiting to see the result.