Re: Brady Murray...

[Crosbyfan]

I take offence at your post VOB and if you would have taken the time to actually acquaint yourself with what I have written instead of focusing on one minor point so that you can attack me you would see that I had already addressed that bit you provided the link for.

If you want my response to the substance of your attack then simply read any of the other posts on this subject that I have made and you will find it.

As to your use of the phrase "so long mate" and the rest of the attacks on my nationality and position well mate, you should take that down as I have seen that the mods will get on you about it.

If you can't make your point without making it a personal attack then why would you bother? You aren't going to get anything substantive in a response and as I said, in this case, a little advance reading would have answered your questions and made you realize how superfluous your post is.

Ta da and cheers mate.

Punchy I have read your posts on this and happen to agree with your view of things for the most part. We don't know in what context Murray made his remarks or how accurately they were repeated. The "Nationalist" side of me doesn't make me a fan of his but I certainly wouldn't let that taint my opinion of him personally. Nobody made him promise not to play for the States if he went to "Summer Camp". If he tried to feel Hockey Canada out about their intentions, so be it.

I do wonder how you feel about Australias excellent performance at the 2000 Olympics. Canadians used to be competitive with them in Summer Olympics and Commonwealth Games but no more. Their programme is to good. But they also "recruit" athletes from other countries that pad their results. Not that this is the reason for their success, but it is a factor.
I don't think the Kiwis do this to any extent. In fact they suffer from the other side of it in sports like sailing. Russel Coutts comes to mind. Considerable Kiwi angst resulting from his "defection".

Not that the circumstances are in any way similar but I would like your opinion.

Cheers mate

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Just making a point but I have heard from some credible sources that he is not at all happy with USA Hockey and may not play for them next year.

It would not surpirse me to see the above scenerio come true.

Yeah, I've heard he viewed it as a "slap in the face" that he wasn't named, but clearly, he bears some responsibility for that. Hopefully he takes this season and grows from it, and if and when he's invited next year he accepts. As for gaining Canadian citizenship, I don't think it's worth it to a guy like him. His focus is on becoming a pro player, and he'd probably just as soon skip the WJC's next year.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I don't think you have to worry too much there, VOB, as I seriously doubt that Canada (the team) would have anything to do with Schremp. As noted above, he is apparently poison in the locker room. That is the last thing anyone needs at Christmas time.

Plus, the Americans are hosting next year's tourney, which means the WJCs will actually get some media play in the States - so, could you imagine the distraction that the Schremp affair would become!!

There is simply no way Jose. (i think).

I wish people would quit claiming Schremp is a locker room cancer and all that nonsense. I haven't read one article that suggests that to be true. By all accounts he's a good teammate who is well prepared and works as hard as anyone.

 

[punchy1]

Oh then sorry vob person. You are correct in your single point of where Brady Murray was this past summer. Brilliant addition to the topic person. I would also point out that it has naught to do with what we are talking about and has already been discussed but since your point of view is shared by the mods and the majority I am sure that your (now this bit is merely an opinion based on what I have observed that isn't intended to hurt anyones feelings so please, let me know if they do so I can delete them ) passive agressive name calling is nothing more than an extention of your desire to be noticed. Well person, you have been noticed. Cheers.

Crosby, Interesting question mate. I will have to chew on it a bit as I hadn't really considered applying that logic to the topic at hand. I am sort of compelled to say that since all countries use pro atheltes and have in the present or past allowed the migration of talented individuals to support thier programs that it isn't a bid deal but, that would be a surface arguement and I would have to give this some thought before I commented further.

I know that we have footballers migrate to europe to play for bigger dosh and bigger crowds/fame/fortune and it always stings but that is at a pro level and not at an amatuer championship one. I will give it a thought and get back with you. Interesting.

Cheers.

 

[VOB]

Oh then sorry vob person. You are correct in your single point of where Brady Murray was this past summer. Brilliant addition to the topic person. I would also point out that it has naught to do with what we are talking about and has already been discussed but since your point of view is shared by the mods and the majority I am sure that your (now this bit is merely an opinion based on what I have observed that isn't intended to hurt anyones feelings so please, let me know if they do so I can delete them ) passive agressive name calling is nothing more than an extention of your desire to be noticed. Well person, you have been noticed. Cheers.
Cheers.

What else is there to say punchy? Murray wanted to play for Team Canada. Tried out for Team Canada. Wanted to play for Team Canada since he was a kid but chose not to play for them because he either doubted his abilities to make the team or felt that the brass at Hockey Canada would not give him a fair shake. He even contacted them to see if he could be given a spot on the team to which they replied he would have to earn it.

Along comes USA Hockey, makes him a lock for the team and the rest is history!

Some are saying he took the easy way out. Others are not to enamored with his ploy of contacting Team Canada in order to try and "weasel" a spot.

That is what this entire thread has been about.

Hope this helped you out a bit.

Tallyho Mate! (Oh sorry I guess Tallyho is more of British saying )

 

[punchy1]

Again, all points that have been covered. Thank you for displaying your firm grip on the obvious. Nice use of the word "weasel" as well. Let me write this out for you then, as it is obvious that you are still not able to grasp this important point.

Here goes nothing,
again,
none of us "experts" know why Brady did what he did for positive. We have our *opinions* on why but, unless you are Brady Murray or his Da or are one of the top brassers at Team Canada you are merely sharing your opinion and while that is fine, it is merely an opinion and no more valid than mine or anyone elses.

Since it is your opinion that Brady is a "weasel" or his actions were that of one, then I am merely trying to suggest that you are basing your opinion on one of two potential scenarios. One is that you are allowing your love of country to let you decide that anyone who doesn't do specifically what *you* believe to be in line with what a Canadian should do is wrong or a "weasel" and two, (although potentially part of the same) you are allowing what you have heard/read from the media to be the source for you information and since we know for a fact that Brady or Team Canada has yet to give any specific details of exactly what transpired between the two AND given the fact that it is pure truth that the media will bold face lie to us as long as they sell more papes or can squeeze out a rating point that you, person, might, and while I know you can't accept this possibility as made obvious by your attacks on me (which, I find to be wrong as the mods "warned" me for much less of an offence in my opinion as is thier rite and I am left to conclude that it is because my opinion were contrary to thiers,and potentially capable of being taken in the wrong manner)that you could actually be judging Brady guilty before knowing the facts and that is wrong if you believe in truth and freedom by my way of seeing things.

Now, this isn't meant as an attack as I refuse to take your tact but, if you are of a political belief that makes it alright to judge someone guilty prior to having all of the facts in place, then you and I have totally different mind sets and I won't be able to accept any of your opinions as I have no experience in that arena.

As I said, I refuse to stoop to your name calling and the tallyho thing is just an example of your being allowed to use language to taunt or attack me where I would never be afforded the same luxury. It is obvious that this is an attack at my being from another culture and if it were wrong for me to say that another poster is allowing thier hatered of another country to influence thier opinions then how are these "endings" to VOBs posts not of the same ilk?

Must be a cultural thing that I am not privy of.

Cheers again.

 

[VOB]

Punchy1. First off I am an American and I am glad that Brady is playing for us, as I believe him to be a very fine player. I simply used the word weasel because that is what alot of people considered his actions to represent.( I do not count myself as one of them.)

Secondly, everyone here knows why he chose to play for the U.S. Everyone but you that is. I have provided you one link and can even give you more if you'd like that provides evidence that Brady chose to play for the U.S. because he was given a spot. Had he been ensured a spot on Team Canada then there is no doubt in my mind, nor anyone else's (excluding you of course punchy1) that he would currently be sporting the red and white MINUS the blue!

Had I been in his shoes I probably would have done the same thing. Then of course this is coming from an American perspective. As I mentioned in another post, I wonder how we would feel if say a Robbie Schremp pulls the same stunt next year?

Of course we all know that the vile media can't be trusted punchy1 and Brady didn't really make those quotes. They were added in by the evil editors as they boarded their black helicopters to complete their mission of taking over the world and changing the face of humanity righ FOREVE!!! Right?

Once again, Cheers Mate.

 

[punchy1]

Why is it so hard for you allow an opinion contrary to your own? The media has *never* lied to us before and would *never* do anything to stir up controversy and obviously as you have stated there is simply no chance that anyone could ever take what little Brady has said or the naught what Team Canada has said and spun it to stir up controversy. I have to say that I think that your take on things to me, and meant only as an observation, are astonishingly of a singular track.

Not in one of your links or "quotes" will there be any explenation providing all of the details. If you want to draw your own conclusions that make an 18 year old a "weasel" because you want to and for no other substantial reason than that well, please go right ahead and do so. You say you are an American well, have you heard of the sentence "innocent until proven guilty" and if so, do you understand what it means and if you do, can't you see that you are hanging Brady without knowing all of the details and how that goes against American (and Canadian among other countries) core beliefs?

Be as condesceding to me as you want to fellow, it only shows your true nature. I find it sad and childish but that is simply an opinion and not an attack and also, only said to show what I think of the words you chose to use and certainly not meant to describe you VOB the person.

I would find it poetic justice if in your life time you were to lose your freedom due to circumstancial evidence and when sent off during your trial they were to use one specific sentence you said out of many to hang you on your charges throwing out any and all other things that could be said on your character. In that moment it would be fitting to see exactly how you felt about circumstantial evidence. I know what you would say now, then might be another story.

Sorry you are not capable of allowing anyone elses opinions into a conversation without resorting to petty name calling and duplicitous insinuations. You might want to look into arguementation and debate as a corse of study at some time in your life. You are spending all of your time attacking my person and on one point in the topic and paying no attention to the actual rest of the topic. In that, you make no sense. I will close with that.

Cheers.

 

[VOB]

Punchy, allow me to go through this one last time.

Fact-Brady Murray tried out for Team Canada at the Summer Evaluation Camp.

Fact-Brady Murray wanted to play for team Canada ever since he was a tot.

Fact-Brady Murray contacted Hockey Canada about his chances of making the team.

Fact-Hockey Canada was noncommital and told him he would have to earn his spot.

Fact-Team USA gave him a spot on the team.

Fact-Brady Murray accepted.

The vast majority of us here have surmised from these facts (not circumstantial evidence but cold facts) that Brady was not very confident about making Team Canada so he went for the sure thing. Some have felt that this is a copout and that he should have at least tried out. No where have I said anything to demean Murray nor I have ever judged him for the decision he made. These are conclusions you have drawn.

As for the cold blooded media, well don't let those black helicopters keep you awake at night punchy1

Once again a DOUBLE CHEERS TO YA MATE (note to the mods-in no way am I attempting to demean anyone's culture or nationality-;east of all our good freind punchy1 )

 

[Crosbyfan]

Punchy, allow me to go through this one last time.

Fact-Brady Murray tried out for Team Canada at the Summer Evaluation Camp.

Fact-Brady Murray wanted to play for team Canada ever since he was a tot.

Fact-Brady Murray contacted Hockey Canada about his chances of making the team.

Fact-Hockey Canada was noncommital and told him he would have to earn his spot.

Fact-Team USA gave him a spot on the team.

Fact-Brady Murray accepted.

The vast majority of us here have surmised from these facts (not circumstantial evidence but cold facts) that Brady was not very confident about making Team Canada so he went for the sure thing. Some have felt that this is a copout and that he should have at least tried out. No where have I said anything to demean Murray nor I have ever judged him for the decision he made. These are conclusions you have drawn.

As for the cold blooded media, well don't let those black helicopters keep you awake at night punchy1

Once again a DOUBLE CHEERS TO YA MATE (note to the mods-in no way am I attempting to demean anyone's culture or nationality-;east of all our good freind punchy1 )

Hey, what about us guys to the west of our good friend Punchy1!!!!

 

[punchy1]

Stunning VOB, simply astonishing and stunning. Lets try it at a level that you might have a shot at understanding since standard debate appears tp have elluded your skills in this issue so far.

Fact-Not only have I said that every one of your facts regarding what Brady has said or done concering his participation with team Canada are not in question in several different ways and several times but I have indeed *MADE THE EXACT SAME COMMENTS IN MY EARLY THREADS*.

Fact- Let me quote you on this one mate because it is where you fall down again and again and again and again and again and again and again, "most of us have SURMISED from THESE FACTS" etc.

Your "Summations" are *OPINIONS* based on PORTIONS of what you know ACTUALLY HAPPENED and NOTHING more than that.

They aren't based on *all of the possible information* because YOU, I, nor anyone else here knows ALL of the possible reasons for Murrays decisions. regardless of what you might *SURMISE, SUPPOSE, THINK, OPINE, SPECULATE, or FEEL*, mate.

Fact- I have said as much SEVERAL different times and yet still, you have shown no ability to differentiate between what is FACT and what is OPINION. What Brady said where indeed FACTS, what you feel about why he said them and the situations that he might have said them in are OPINIONS. (you might say that you are speculating or surmising your *opinions* based solely on what he said and NOT on ALL of the potential truths)

Fact- You have now gone on record as having Lied.

To quote you "others are not enamored with his contacting Team Canada in order to try and "weasel" a spot. You say that you have said "nothing to demean Murray" in one post and call him and his actions those of a "weasel" in another.

Fact- I have NEVER contested, as I said above and serveral, several other times that Brady were wanting play for Canada or went to camp or made his quote etc. Fact is, I am ONLY CONTESTING ONE POINT and that is that you, regardless of your double talking, as are so many others, angry at what ended up happening and (now here again is the tricky bit so read it a couple of times if it doesn't come quickly and don't take offence to this bit, I truly am trying to break through here) you don't know ALL of the possible reasons for what he ended up doing so you might want to hold onto your anger until you do. Simply that little bit right there mate.

Fact- You can lolly on about how you don't mean your obvious taunts as attacks but your sad and hackneyed attempts at bullying me through using my own common language (so you might unerstand, *using words that I use often and you never, ever use prior to trying try and take a piss at me*)is absolutely easy for anyone who reads them to see as nothing more than bashing me for speaking differently.

It is a case of your point of view, including the fact that you are taunting and trying to mock me as being acceptable to the mods because in this case they share your opinion on the topic. That is what it appears like to me.

Fact- I were dealt with differently for a much, much lesser statement in my opinion (and a couple of others who read what I had written and told me via pm and on the boards that they didn't see anything offencive in it) which wasn't intended as anything close to a taunt but an observation and you are allowed to over and over again take your pathetic shots at me. Fine with me mate, I am aware of the specific type of person you are and your *wanting* deductive skills.

You seem to speak from a position of authority on paranoia regarding the media and have said things that I never once have even come close to proposing (again, could be the reading comprehension problem, I don't truly know why) and that again is evidence that you truly don't understand the basics of what I am saying or are simply trying to force an angry response from me and mate, that just isn't possible. I won't come close to getting angry over the internet, challenged? Sure, confounded? You bet, angry, that isn't the kind of bloke I am mate.

Also note to mods, I expect that since I am of a contrary point of view on this topic that I will be again quesioned on the responses in this post. I posted several times that I had no intention of offending anyone by my posts in this thread and while I made very specific changes to the manner in which I post so to assure I wouldn't possibly be offending anyone, I have watched VOB be allowed to take shots at me and make obvious pokes at me and the way I speak. If I have been offencive, it weren't my intention and again, let me know if I have so that I can remove the offencive language.

Having said that, would bet you any dosh you want that if you went through all of VOB's threads you will never find the words "Tallyho, Mate, Cheerio" or any other obviously intended taunts that he had made.

Normally, no skin to me mates, I would be laughing at them and certainly would take little if any offence. Its just that, in this situation, where I were warned and told to change what I said regarding my opinion concerning another poster by saying nothing more than he had allowed his hatered of another country cloud his ability to show any reason in debating issues where they were concerned, I find it odd that VOB isn't being shown the same consideration when he is obviously using words that he would never use to try and taunt an angry reaction out of me.

Like I said,none is comming but, if the rules apply to me then they should apply to all. I were told that we don't take shots (though as said, I had no intention of taking a shot where my warning were concerned) at other posters and "don't debate that way" and yet, here we are.

I am done with this topic as I am tired of trying to explain an easy enough concept to a person who doesn't have the tools to understand it, (merely an observation based on how many times I have had to try and explain it and not meant as calling him stupid or anything like that)and also, am tired of trying to force a touch of reason into a situation where it truly isn't wanted.

Go on mates, bash at Brady, he is a weasel who had a piss on Canada and deserves to be shunned for ever, never to speak his name again.

Cheers mates.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

This thread is done.

The debate has become personal, and that doesn't fly here.