Re: Brady Murray...

[Les Zarbites]

I also agree that it defeats the purpose of the tourney. Playing for a team is all about representing your country. About being proud of your citizenship and about trying to be a hero for your country. There should only be one choice. It shouldn't be based on anything else than wanting to play for one country or the other.

I'm glad a guy like that isn't on Canada's team. I don't understand how fans of the american team can cheer for him. Especially knowing how patriotic most americans are. After all the american team was his 2nd choice. Murray is looking more bitter about not being chosen by Canada than proud to play for team USA. He said :

"I hope Canada realizes that they should have given me the chance to play for them."

When he really should have said :

"I'm proud to play for the states. They've given me a chance and they should have been my first choice all along."

I'm just gonna give an exemple.

If Steve Nash (The canadian basketball player) had dual citizenship and called the USA team to be told that he'd have to earn his spot on the team in a try out. And then called Team Canada and was automatically offered a spot and then would chose Canada by default because he'd be sure to play. I couldn't cheer for this guy. I would even have a hard time to identify to the team because of it.

I also think it's classless for him to say he hopes Team Canada now realize they should have taken him. He shows disrespect to all the other players who tried out and made the team with hard work and who are showing pride about playing for Canada. I'd not be proud to be his teamate on team USA.

It's got nothing to do with canadians being bitter he chose the US. Most likely Murray would have had a lesser role if he made the team. And he isn't playing for us. Most people are just getting a wrong feeling about his actions because they have a different set of values. I'm among those people.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

You will get suppositions from media types but not word one from the mouth of Brady with the exception of his saying something of the effect that he will show us he can play at that level in one way or another.

What about this comment...

"I hope Canada realizes that they should have given me the chance to play for them."

This tells the whole story. Brady would have been invited to the December selection camp...ie: given a chance to play for them.

By calling Hockey Canada to see if he had a spot on the team, when nobody else would have been given that luxury, was a selfish attempt to use the guaranteed spot on Team USA to get himself a spot on Team Canada.

I don't see how else this can be seen.

 

[punchy1]

I would have to see it differently then you. I see it in a fashion that he is a young man who wanted to play in this tournament so badly that he tried to play for both countries. As a person who holds dual citizenship I am equally loyal to both of the countries that I am aligned with. I am of the opinion that Brady might feel the same way. He could have made an arguement to play for one of the euro countries he lived in as well but didn't.

I think that you might be seeing it from the perspective of a person who doesn't hold dual citizenship and therefore you are putting your perspective into his situation and I have the feeling that you are making an unfair assumption in that position mate. Brady could be the type of fellow that is equally loyal to both countries and though, he were trying to play for Canada also wanted to play for USA and when it looked like Canada wouldn't be his best opportunity he went to USA and was happy with his choice.

As I have said, you are speculating on his position and I feel that is a dangerous way to think when a young mans reputation is on the line. We don't know all of the facts and in this case, in the way you have responded, no offence intended mate but it looks like you are reacting in a manner that is merely a nationalistic point of view based on your being only a Canadian and as I have said, since he is of a dual citizenship, you can't know what he feels or where his loyalties are but again, I hope you aren't offended by my statements, I simply feel that way and while I don't agree with you feel your opinion is interesting and valid, just not exactly right in my way of thinking.

Cheers.

 

[Les Zarbites]

What about this comment...

"I hope Canada realizes that they should have given me the chance to play for them."

This tells the whole story. Brady would have been invited to the December selection camp...ie: given a chance to play for them.

By calling Hockey Canada to see if he had a spot on the team, when nobody else would have been given that luxury, was a selfish attempt to use the guaranteed spot on Team USA to get himself a spot on Team Canada.

I don't see how else this can be seen.

Exactly ! There's no interpretation here. The USA were his 2nd choice. This is made very clear when he says Canada should have given him the chance to play for them.

 

[punchy1]

Again, I would have to ask you if you held dual citizenship. I am speculating as well but as a bloke who does, I am equally loyal to two countries, two totally different cultures and two totally different life styles and while I could also be speculating based on my personal experiences I would have to say that they are as valid as your opinions are.

In fact, why not be flattered that Canada was Brady's first choice for a team to play for? I mean, you can want to believe what you will but, he did go to you lot first and in that, whatever the true circumstances of the situation are, he made Canada his first choice and for whatever the reason decided to play for USA instead. I feel that he were lucky to have that option and that him having this option could be a part of the reason why, no offence intended here mates, that some of you are so affected by this. Again, please don't take offence to my saying that you are acting affected, I mean that you seem to be so passionate about this and are allowing the words of an 18 year old kid who you don't know raise your passion against him when there could possibly be agents at work that not only led him to his not playing for Canada but also for saying those awful words.

Just an opinion of mine and no more valid than yours but it is the way I see it.

Cheers mates.

 

[chicpea*]

we all know I think Murray's process was lame, but I do think that Punchy, being dual himself, should be respected for his view, non?

 

[BCCHL inactive]

Again, I would have to ask you if you held dual citizenship. I am speculating as well but as a bloke who does, I am equally loyal to two countries, two totally different cultures and two totally different life styles and while I could also be speculating based on my personal experiences I would have to say that they are as valid as your opinions are.

I am very close to acquiring dual citizenship between Canada and The Netherlands. I am very loyal to Holland, just as I am to Canada. If I was a player, and Holland offered me a spot on their team, no questions asked, and I also had a chance to try out for Canada....I would not use my guaranteed Dutch spot as leverage to try and get a guaranteed Canadian spot, knowing that Canada guarantees spots for nobody but very few eligible NHL players.

And if I did end up choosing Holland, I would not have the nerve to say that Canada should have given me a chance to play for them....because they did.

In fact, why not be flattered that Canada was Brady's first choice for a team to play for?

If he had have tried out and got cut...or simply said that he would rather play for the United States, then I could see it this way.

 

[Les Zarbites]

I would have to see it differently then you. I see it in a fashion that he is a young man who wanted to play in this tournament so badly that he tried to play for both countries. As a person who holds dual citizenship I am equally loyal to both of the countries that I am aligned with. I am of the opinion that Brady might feel the same way. He could have made an arguement to play for one of the euro countries he lived in as well but didn't.

I think that you might be seeing it from the perspective of a person who doesn't hold dual citizenship and therefore you are putting your perspective into his situation and I have the feeling that you are making an unfair assumption in that position mate. Brady could be the type of fellow that is equally loyal to both countries and though, he were trying to play for Canada also wanted to play for USA and when it looked like Canada wouldn't be his best opportunity he went to USA and was happy with his choice.

As I have said, you are speculating on his position and I feel that is a dangerous way to think when a young mans reputation is on the line. We don't know all of the facts and in this case, in the way you have responded, no offence intended mate but it looks like you are reacting in a manner that is merely a nationalistic point of view based on your being only a Canadian and as I have said, since he is of a dual citizenship, you can't know what he feels or where his loyalties are but again, I hope you aren't offended by my statements, I simply feel that way and while I don't agree with you feel your opinion is interesting and valid, just not exactly right in my way of thinking.

Cheers.

You are right I don't hold dual citizenship. I can't really imagine what it must be like. But I still believe I wouldn't have done the same thing if I were put in his place. I'd have chosen one team and stuck with it. I would feel cheaply about the guys I'm currently playing with being my second choice. Like you said we don't have the same way of thinking so let's agree to disagree.

 

[punchy1]

Well, there is the beauty of this situation in my particular opinion. You mentioned what *you* would do based on *your* knowledge of the situation. I am not calling it or you wrong, I am saying that you are not Brady Murray and that you nor I or would hold that not a person that I know of at HF knows the exact specifics of the situation so saying what we would do is one thing, to hammer an 18 year old for what he did based on what we would do is another entirely in my opinion.

I would also take a challenge to your position based on the fact that you are about to go after your dual citizenship when Brady has held his for a long time. I was raised the majority of my life in one country and then moved to another. My original loyalty would be to the country I were raised in but after living here for the majority of my adult life, I would chose differently.

You do prove my point though that you are making your opinion based on your belief of what you would do and not what Brady did and you are also basing it on one sentense from him that easily as so often happens have been taken in many different ways and one of them is out of the context of what the entire statement were. You are saying what you feel you would do if it were you, not what actually happened to Brady and what Brady did based on what were happening to Brady.

If I were in your position then I would also do what you claim you would do. That is entirely different than Brady's situation as far as we know but again, no offence mate, i am still questioning the situation in that we don't know all of the facts and that we are all speculating some pretty terrible things about a kid and convicting him without his being able to present his side of what might have happened. That I take exception to as far as my own personal opinion is concerned but again, I come from a different position and mean nothing by it.

Cheers mate.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

I would also take a challenge to your position based on the fact that you are about to go after your dual citizenship when Brady has held his for a long time.

This is quite unfair. Just because I don't yet have the paperwork doesn't mean I haven't had a sense of pride in both nations for my entire life.

i am still questioning the situation in that we don't know all of the facts and that we are all speculating some pretty terrible things about a kid and convicting him without his being able to present his side of what might have happened.

We know that Hockey Canada had the intentions of inviting him to the December selection camp....and we know that Brady Murray feels that trying out for a team isn't getting a chance to play for them...his own comments prove that. The comment, "I hope Canada realizes that they should have given me the chance to play for them.", was his side of the story.

 

[Street Hawk]

Answer this Question Brady...

The only people complaining about this issue are Canadians. Why is that? Murray probably wouldn't have made the Canadian team, so what's the big deal? He's welcome on the U.S. side, and nothing's going to change that. Can we please drop this?

To me Rabid Ranger, it comes down to this...

There should only be 1 team that Murray wants to represent in this tournament, not 2.

In the 2002 SLC Winter Olympics, who was Brady Murray cheering for in the Gold Medal game? Canada or the USA? He father wasn't a coach for the team, so there was no family obligation for him to cheer for Canada.

Obviously, he was cheering for Canada because he was at Canada's summer evaluation camp. The fact that Canada told him after he called them that there was a chance that he might not get an invite, at that point he should have said, "I just want an invitation to camp and I'll show you that I belong on the team"" and told the USA team, thanks for the offer, but I'm a Canadian. And if I don't get invited, then I'll cheer them on from my dorm room at North Dakota.

This isn't like the Olympics, where athletes from opressed countries leave and take up citizenship in another country and go back to the olympics to represent their new country.

Once, you play for a country beginning at the WJHC, then that is your country, as demonstrated by Nabokov who is now tied to Khaz despite his desires to play for Russia. Kolzig, who was raised in BC can only play for Germany. This decision that Murray made is forever. There is no turning back.

 

[Les Zarbites]

Again, I would have to ask you if you held dual citizenship. I am speculating as well but as a bloke who does, I am equally loyal to two countries, two totally different cultures and two totally different life styles and while I could also be speculating based on my personal experiences I would have to say that they are as valid as your opinions are.

Even if you hold dual citizenship you can only play for one team. You have a choice to make. It's not about searching a job it's about representing one country.

It's like me having equal feelings for two girls (girl A and girl B). Both girls are going to a party. For me to go I need to be invited by one of those girls.

I go completely random and ask girl A to go to the party with me. Girl A says I have to succeed in seducing her first.

I'm a lazy so I decide to go for girl B instead.

Girl B doesn't garner a lot of interest from other males so she readily accept my demands and we go together.

Then I see girl A with a guy at the party. I go out to them and tell her : I hope you realize you should have went to the party with me.

It's just wrong in my book. It's not about not being able to understand Murray because I don't have dual citizenship. It's about the way he did things and about the comments he made.

In fact, why not be flattered that Canada was Brady's first choice for a team to play for? I mean, you can want to believe what you will but, he did go to you lot first and in that, whatever the true circumstances of the situation are, he made Canada his first choice and for whatever the reason decided to play for USA instead. I feel that he were lucky to have that option and that him having this option could be a part of the reason why, no offence intended here mates, that some of you are so affected by this. Again, please don't take offence to my saying that you are acting affected, I mean that you seem to be so passionate about this and are allowing the words of an 18 year old kid who you don't know raise your passion against him when there could possibly be agents at work that not only led him to his not playing for Canada but also for saying those awful words.

No offense but I think you're a whole lot more passionate about this than me. I even suspect you of being Brady Murray.

Just an opinion of mine and no more valid than yours but it is the way I see it.

I totaly agree and I'm sorry if I made you feel otherwise. Just discussing here ! :p

BTW dunno if you were talking to me or VAN or both ... but I answered anyway.

 

[punchy1]

Cheers habs. Well van, there is no way to reason my position in any other manner than I have with you. In one fashion or another, I am not capable of getting my point across and would rather concede it than say anything that could be even remotely taken as offencive in any fashion. I feel that there are facts that we simply don't know and you believe you have them all. In that, we are on opposite sides so cheers.

Ta da and maybe there simply is no answer to this except that, we feel, that Brady either did or didn't act correctly and he either is or isn't right in his actions, other than that, is speculation.

Cheers mates.

 

[Street Hawk]

Cheers habs. Well van, there is no way to reason my position in any other manner than I have with you. In one fashion or another, I am not capable of getting my point across and would rather concede it than say anything that could be even remotely taken as offencive in any fashion. I feel that there are facts that we simply don't know and you believe you have them all. In that, we are on opposite sides so cheers.

Ta da and maybe there simply is no answer to this except that, we feel, that Brady either did or didn't act correctly and he either is or isn't right in his actions, other than that, is speculation.

Cheers mates.

You do make some valid points Punchy. We don't know all the factors surrounding Brady Murray's decision. But, what is not in question is the following:

He attended Canada's summer evaluation camp. This camp is used to evaluate some 40 odd Junior aged players that Canada is considering for the team. The Camp is made up of players from the 2002 and 2003 draft. Murray was there and so was one of the players Canada was considering.

For me, I do have a problem with Brady attending Canada's camp and then opting to play for the USA. Since he attended Canada's camp, that should be the ONLY country he should play for. What reason is there for Murray to be at the Camp if Canada is not the country he wants to represent at this tournament? It's either Canada or he watches the tournament from home.

I do realize that holding dual citizenship in the US and Canada means that Murray needs to make a decision. But, in my eyes, he made that decision in the summer when he attended the selection camp.

I'm Canadian and don't hold any other citizenship. But, I would like to think that I would have done things differently if I was in Murray's situation. I have to choose which country to represent. If, I attended the camp like Murray did, then I would have declined the US offer of a guaranteed spot. Canada would have been my only choice. If the coaches don't think I'm good enough to be on the team, then I take a few days to get over my disappointment, but wish the team the best of luck in winning gold and cheer them on from home.

 

[VOB]

Does anyone here remember the Canadian summer camp? Does anyone here remember that Murray played in this summer camp? Do we not remember that it was reported in the media that Zack Parise contacted Murray in order to convince him to play at the U.S. summer camp and tournament. Did not Brady Murray say thanks but no thanks because he couldn't see himself playing for anybody else but Canada? After all he had been cheering for Canada since he was a wee tot.

Being an American, I am kind of glad that he is playing for us. Although I do wonder how Robbie Schremp feels about the situation since he DID ATTEND the U.S. summer evaluation camp and was actually one of the leading scores in the tournament. I wonder how the other American players who ALWAYS WANTED TO PLAY FOR THE U.S. feel about Murray's spot on the team?

I wonder how we Americans will feel when Schremp says thanks but no thanks to the American invitation to play next year and instead decides to pursue his Canadian citizenship in order to play for Team Canada?

The FACT is punchy that Murray WANTED to play for Canada. Hence his attendance at the summer evaluation camp and his contacting of Hockey Canada in order to be ensured a spot on the team. I personally believe that he would not have made Team Canada and that Murray knew that it would be an up hill battle. He wanted to play in the tournament and the U.S. gave him that opportunity. So he took it.

Should Canadians be bitter towards him? I think not. Yes they have a ligitimate reason to complain as to how he handled the situation but why complain since he is a dual?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I wonder how we Americans will feel when Schremp says thanks but no thanks to the American invitation to play next year and instead decides to pursue his Canadian citizenship in order to play for Team Canada?

Is this Schremp's intention, or were you just making a point?

 

[punchy1]

Wow, thanks mate. That clears up allot for me. Set me up with the link that will back up what you said in Murrays own words or the words of his coaches etc and I will post the biggest bleeding retraction ever to be ignored on these boards.

By the way, this sort of thing in substance but different in actions happens all of the time. Lots of players are playing thoughout North America and in the NHL that hold dual citizenship who chose to play for one country or another. That is why I don't buy the majority of the arguements. That, and there are simply no statements of fact from the parties involved to support the venom that I have read on the subject with the exception of what is reported in the media which, we all know is totally unreliable and will say anything to sell a pape or get a rating. When Brady Murray is interviewed about this which I believe he will be after the tourney, then we will find out what is what and I am open minded to the chance that you lot are right and if that is the case then beauty. You lot though, aren't even remotely open to the chance that there might be information that we don't know that led to Brady doing what he did and have shot him down without ever hearing his side of things.

One quote by an 18 year old saying he hopes he does a good enough job to show the team he didn't make that he were good enough to have been there doesn't mean squatter to me mates. You don't know the specifics behind his making the decision or that specific statement so it is superflous.

Of course as always, I mean no harm or offence by my pov on this and if I am offending anyone in any manner by my posting I am sorry in advance and pm me and I will remove the offencive bits asap. I am merely trying to show that, all of this is circumstantial at best and to ruin a young chap on that sort of "evidence" I feel is wrong. Guilty before being given a chance to prove his innocence (although he shouldn't have to prove anything here) is what it is, to me, and I have always felt that wrong but again, that is simply my point of view and no harm is meant by it.


Cheers.

 

[Bud The Spud*]

They asked them about playing against their "Canadian counterparts" and Murray response was something like... "I hope Canada realizes that they should have given me the chance to play for them

Canada doesn't need to realize anything. They never needed him. It's nice that he gets to play with his second choice team though :p

 

[punchy1]

"something like"

Oh, and of course the usual bit where I say that none of us know what either party truly said or felt about the situation so its all just opinion and the part where I appologize in advance for the chance that anyone be offended by my point of view.

Cheers mates.

 

[VOB]

Wow, thanks mate. That clears up allot for me. Set me up with the link that will back up what you said in Murrays own words or the words of his coaches etc and I will post the biggest bleeding retraction ever to be ignored on these boards.

By the way, this sort of thing in substance but different in actions happens all of the time. Lots of players are playing thoughout North America and in the NHL that hold dual citizenship who chose to play for one country or another. That is why I don't buy the majority of the arguements. That, and there are simply no statements of fact from the parties involved to support the venom that I have read on the subject with the exception of what is reported in the media which, we all know is totally unreliable and will say anything to sell a pape or get a rating. When Brady Murray is interviewed about this which I believe he will be after the tourney, then we will find out what is what and I am open minded to the chance that you lot are right and if that is the case then beauty. You lot though, aren't even remotely open to the chance that there might be information that we don't know that led to Brady doing what he did and have shot him down without ever hearing his side of things.

One quote by an 18 year old saying he hopes he does a good enough job to show the team he didn't make that he were good enough to have been there doesn't mean squatter to me mates. You don't know the specifics behind his making the decision or that specific statement so it is superflous.

Of course as always, I mean no harm or offence by my pov on this and if I am offending anyone in any manner by my posting I am sorry in advance and pm me and I will remove the offencive bits asap. I am merely trying to show that, all of this is circumstantial at best and to ruin a young chap on that sort of "evidence" I feel is wrong. Guilty before being given a chance to prove his innocence (although he shouldn't have to prove anything here) is what it is, to me, and I have always felt that wrong but again, that is simply my point of view and no harm is meant by it.


Cheers.

Here is a link that may shed a little light on your "opinion" of the matter.

http://www.canoe.ca/Slam030819/chl_nat-sun.html

In case the link does not work for you, here is what Brady said in his own words....

"I could have gone to the U.S. camp but I grew up with Canadian hockey and watching the Canadian players in the Maple Leaf uniforms. So when the opportunity came up, I couldn't say no," said Murray.


Of course punchy this may have been an imposter or one of Murray's doubles intended to fool the brass of Hockey Canada

So long mate :

 

[VOB]

Is this Schremp's intention, or were you just making a point?

Just making a point but I have heard from some credible sources that he is not at all happy with USA Hockey and may not play for them next year.

It would not surpirse me to see the above scenerio come true.

 

[punchy1]

I take offence at your post VOB and if you would have taken the time to actually acquaint yourself with what I have written instead of focusing on one minor point so that you can attack me you would see that I had already addressed that bit you provided the link for.

If you want my response to the substance of your attack then simply read any of the other posts on this subject that I have made and you will find it.

As to your use of the phrase "so long mate" and the rest of the attacks on my nationality and position well mate, you should take that down as I have seen that the mods will get on you about it.

If you can't make your point without making it a personal attack then why would you bother? You aren't going to get anything substantive in a response and as I said, in this case, a little advance reading would have answered your questions and made you realize how superfluous your post is.

Ta da and cheers mate.

 

[Bud The Spud*]

I think everybody should stop taking everything so serious and be nice to eachother

 

[chicpea*]

I wonder how we Americans will feel when Schremp says thanks but no thanks to the American invitation to play next year and instead decides to pursue his Canadian citizenship in order to play for Team Canada?

I don't think you have to worry too much there, VOB, as I seriously doubt that Canada (the team) would have anything to do with Schremp. As noted above, he is apparently poison in the locker room. That is the last thing anyone needs at Christmas time.

Plus, the Americans are hosting next year's tourney, which means the WJCs will actually get some media play in the States - so, could you imagine the distraction that the Schremp affair would become!!

There is simply no way Jose. (i think).

 

[VOB]

I take offence at your post VOB and if you would have taken the time to actually acquaint yourself with what I have written instead of focusing on one minor point so that you can attack me you would see that I had already addressed that bit you provided the link for.

If you want my response to the substance of your attack then simply read any of the other posts on this subject that I have made and you will find it.

As to your use of the phrase "so long mate" and the rest of the attacks on my nationality and position well mate, you should take that down as I have seen that the mods will get on you about it.

If you can't make your point without making it a personal attack then why would you bother? You aren't going to get anything substantive in a response and as I said, in this case, a little advance reading would have answered your questions and made you realize how superfluous your post is.

Ta da and cheers mate.

I was not aware that only kiwis could use the term mate.

I have more than made my point here punchy. I said, and have provided proof, that Murray attended the Canadian summer evaluation camp, wanted to play for Team Canada and changed his mind when he could not be assured a spot on the team.

These are all facts punchy1, nothing more.

So long MATE