Re: Brady Murray...

[punchy1]

Right mate, I don't buy it. You are essentially saying that since Brady, a kid who went to school in the states and grew up there, said he were going to play for the USA instead of Canada, he broke the "spirit" of the tourney?

Sounds wrong to me mate. You are also saying that "if he didn't make the US squad then he would move on to the next" like you know for a fact that he would. Well mate, that is conjecture at best and you are simply guessing at your position.

I wonder if you wouldn't do the same thing that Brady did given the circumstances.


We don't know the spefics around Brady's decision for a fact so we don't know what we would have done for certain.


I don't agree with your position.


I do think that on the surface that Brady should have made a choice and stuck to it early but since we don't know why he did what he did then its all just guessing and that won't do.


The whole thing to me sounds like you lot want to hang a kid for doing something that you yourselves might have done without truly knowing any of the reasons why he did it except what you have been told by the media. Of course, we all know they wouldn't lie to us, would they?

Brady Murray is a kid who plays hockey who made a decision based on the facts as he saw them. We aren't him so we don't know the facts of his decision making process so we might have all done the same thing.

Maybe not. Canada is great and I am sure that he would want to play for them unless he had a reason.

Cheers, I hope his play favoUrs his decisions.

 

[leafaholix*]

Okay, here's the reason he's playing for team USA... are you ready?

He wasn't good enough to play for team Canada.

It's as simple as that.

There's no bitterness or jealousy... the kid has 1 goal in 5 games. And if anything, when it comes to hockey... there is absolutely no way you can accuse Canadian fans of being jealous. We've got plenty of eligible players to stack two competitive WJC teams.

And I really do not recall anyone judging Brady Murray as a person... we're criticising his decision. The fact that he chose to take the guarenteed spot when he realized he wasn't good enough to play for team Canada.

As for him going to school in the US... the guy was born in Brandon, Manitoba and grew up in British Columbia... finishing High School in BC.

 

[Mike8]

Right mate, I don't buy it. You are essentially saying that since Brady, a kid who went to school in the states and grew up there, said he were going to play for the USA instead of Canada, he broke the "spirit" of the tourney?

No, I'm essentially saying a player should make a choice with which country they feel national pride with and stick to it. Don't make a choice, then change your mind because you have a better chance to make another country's team. That's making a mockery of the tournament. Where Murray grew up is irrelevant.

Sounds daft to me mate. You are also saying that "if he didn't make the US squad then he would move on to the next" like you know for a fact that he would. Well mate, that is conjecture at best and you are simply guessing at your position. It must be a bad feeling to have all that bitterness.

I couldn't care less as to whether Murray plays for the US or not. I don't like players choosing different countries to play for; I made that point clear in my past posts and your failure in acknowleding my sole point, resulting in my repeating it is the only thing getting me bitter.

I never stated that Murray would move on to another country, I said he'd likely do it. If he did it once, why not again? This is to point out how such a move would be a mockery of the entire system in place; NOT a personal dig at Murray. For all I know, he's a good kid just wanting to make the NHL and play with some of his buddies he knows from NCAA. I just don't like the fact that he swapped teams when one didn't assure him of a spot. Simple enough?

You also sound like you are dead positive that in the same position YOU wouldn't do the same bloody thing. It is easy to sit in your house and talk about how patriotic and splendid you would be to the whole process but I won't belive you for a minute.

Talking about conjecture, eh? This point is irrelevant. It's entirely baseless. You have no knowledge of my decision making, so deciding that you wouldn't believe me on a topic like this is silly. You don't have a leg to stand on here, mate. It's silly even to bring it up.

Brady Murray is a young man who has a desire to play in the tourney. He went to team Canada and found for whatever reason that there were a solid shot he wouldn't be asked on it. NONE of us know why or what were said specifically that made him make the decision to move away from them and on to USA. ALL we can do is speculate at what happened.

No, there's several facts on what happened:

-Murray chose that he wanted to play for Canada first.
-Called Team Canada regarding his spot in the lineup
-Decided to play on Team USA afterwards.

That's all I'm concerned with.

The thing is this, you chose to believe that Brady is wrong for what he has done and that it was bad form from him and that he is this bad kid when I chose the see it as he, like all people, are good at heart and did what he felt were best for his future and that since WE DON'T know the facts of what lead him to make the choice he did, that I will believe the best in him INSTEAD of assuming the worst.

I'm not thinking Murray's a good or bad kid. I've never met him so I'm in no position to make any judgments. I don't like players chosing one country to play for, then choosing another since the grass is greener on the other side. It's nothing personal with Murray, and I'd be saying the same thing if it were any other player; coming or leaving Team Canada.

Don't think this is so personal here. I'm speaking on a more general level here than I think you are; this isn't a personal dig at Murray.

It is hypocritical to say you wouldn't have done the same bloody thing in his spot because you don't know for a fact that you wouldn't since you don't know the facts for why he did.

That's not hypocrisy at all. The only way I'd be hypocritical in this situation is if I were Brett Hull condemning Brady Murray for swapping countries.

 

[chicpea*]

Brady Murray didn't **** any babies or eat the dead or pee on the Canadian flag or anything like that so I don't understand why you lot care so bloody much about it. Are you that insecure about how great your country is that something as miniscule as this can get you upset?

Punchy1, I think you mentioned you lived here for a while and you seem to know a lot about canada and to be a nice guy. Therefore, I will let you in on a little secret (if you don't know it already). The reason "L'Affaire du Murray" has touched such a nerve can be summed up in two words: Messier, Hull.

In my opinion, it was a lame move by Murray and probably embarassing for his dad, but that's just my opinion - your points are good too.

 

[Pwk]

There was a special feature thing on sportsnet on the kids with Canadian roots playing for team USA.... Zach Parise (Canadian father), Patrick Eaves (born in Calgary, Alberta), and of course Brady Murray (Canadian).

They asked them about playing against their "Canadian counterparts" and Murray response was something like... "I hope Canada realizes that they should have given me the chance to play for them."

What the hell.

Was that not what the selection process was about?

Because he said that he gave Hockey Canada a call to see if he'd make the team and they said that it would difficult, but he'd have to compete for a spot... and then he called USA Hockey and they gave him a roster spot... something he called a "sure thing".

Anyways... that just bugs me... the fact that he chose to play for USA because he wasn't good enough to play for Team Canada.

I don't care if it's his last opportunity to play in the WJC... he just took advantage of the situation and that annoys me. There's an actual American kid out there that should have been selected to play for the team... someone who didn't have a crack at it with another country.

hmmmm dual citzenship. Only lived in Canada 4 years? (US for 14 years. Played with Zach @ Shattuck St. Mary's in Minnesota (the same school the famed Crosby played for a year before the Q) What's the big deal.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

hmmmm dual citzenship. Only lived in Canada 4 years? (US for 14 years. Played with Zach @ Shattuck St. Mary's in Minnesota (the same school the famed Crosby played for a year before the Q) What's the big deal.

I think you missed the point.

People are NOT upset with Murray for playing for Team USA. They are upset over the way he went about it. ie: called Hockey Canada and asked if he was going to be givin a roster spot for sure.

 

[zeppelin97]

I don't understand why canadians are so extremely bitter about murray. Like many canadians have admitted it has nothing to do with his talent level helping the junior team out.

It has everything to do with nationalism. And Brady's apparent lack of loyalty to canada.

The press may have painted a picture of murray where he loves only canada and playing for the US is a 'career' choice. Maybe canadians have too much nationalistic pride or see murray as characterless. I just don't see the problem there.

Brady is an individual, being branded to any one nation should come second.

 

[William H Bonney]

Okay, here's the reason he's playing for team USA... are you ready?

He wasn't good enough to play for team Canada.

It's as simple as that.

There's no bitterness or jealousy... the kid has 1 goal in 5 games. And if anything, when it comes to hockey... there is absolutely no way you can accuse Canadian fans of being jealous. We've got plenty of eligible players to stack two competitive WJC teams.

And I really do not recall anyone judging Brady Murray as a person... we're criticising his decision. The fact that he chose to take the guarenteed spot when he realized he wasn't good enough to play for team Canada.

As for him going to school in the US... the guy was born in Brandon, Manitoba and grew up in British Columbia... finishing High School in BC.

You don't know that he wasn't good enough for Team Canada.

You guys have been *****ing about this since Murray's decision, I mean, if he really wasn't good enough for Team Canada, wouldn't you have given up by now?

And based on your assumption that he wouldn't make Canada because he has one goal in 5 games, well, what about Colliton's 0 goals, 0 Assists in 5 games? Or how about Dixon's 0 goals, 1 assist in 5 games? Oh how convenient, you must have forgot about those guys because they turn your "evidence" into a pile of steaming dog ****.

He was born in Canada, YAY! Well, as someone pointed out above, he's lived in Canada for 4 years, the US 14. Developed at Shattuck in Minnesota, and at North Dakota.


Van: Read the rules for this board. Your comments were very close to earning yourself a ban for insulting somebody based on nationality. I edited out the questionable content.

 

[chicpea*]

Christ, we know you hate us Americans GPH.....But please, give it up if Murray really wasn't good enough for Team Canada as you claim.

It's not so much that he wasn't good enough, but that he refused to try out to prove that he wasn't. And that, I feel, is lame.

 

[William H Bonney]

It's not so much that he wasn't good enough, but that he refused to try out to prove that he wasn't. And that, I feel, is lame.

Maybe, or maybe he feels strong ties to both countries (for obvious reasons) and he loves hockey so much he wanted to play in this tournament. Can you imagine how he would feel right now if he turned down team USA and didn't make Canada? The kid was both blessed and cursed to be in the situation he was in, but you can't fault him for wanting to play in the big tourney.

 

[chicpea*]

Maybe, or maybe he feels strong ties to both countries (for obvious reasons) and he loves hockey so much he wanted to play in this tournament. Can you imagine how he would feel right now if he turned down team USA and didn't make Canada? The kid was both blessed and cursed to be in the situation he was in, but you can't fault him for wanting to play in the big tourney.

No, of course I don't blame him. Heck, I want to play there too!
But we are all delusional if we don't believe that he was a lock for the US team. He wanted to be a (corey) lock for Canada too, but that is not how it works with hockeycanada - not for anyone except maybe rick nash, eric staal, bergeron, bouchard and fleury et al.
If he had been a lock for both then he would have had a choice, and that's what I believe he wanted.
I bet if the US weren't heavy favourites this year -say it was the 1986 team or whatnot - he would probably have shown up for the final cuts for canada.
Anyway, he gets to play - everyone's happy - and maybe one day he'll be on the US olympic team.

 

[William H Bonney]

No, of course I don't blame him. Heck, I want to play there too!
But we are all delusional if we don't believe that he was a lock for the US team. He wanted to be a (corey) lock for Canada too, but that is not how it works with hockeycanada - not for anyone except maybe rick nash, eric staal, bergeron, bouchard and fleury et al.
If he had been a lock for both then he would have had a choice, and that's what I believe he wanted.
I bet if the US weren't heavy favourites this year -say it was the 1986 team or whatnot - he would probably have shown up for the final cuts for canada.
Anyway, he gets to play - everyone's happy - and maybe one day he'll be on the US olympic team.

Hell, if Robbie Schremp can't make Team USA, Brady Murray can't be considered a lock. Team USA's and Canada's selection processes are different. USA offered Murray the spot, he took it.

 

[chicpea*]

Hell, if Robbie Schremp can't make Team USA, Brady Murray can't be considered a lock. Team USA's and Canada's selection processes are different. USA offered Murray the spot, he took it.

Um, Robbie Schremp was never a lock due to several mitigating factors. Among the most prominent: he is a jerk; he has had problems with HockeyUSA in the recent past; he has reduced his value dramatically by demanding, yes demanding, a trade from his club - and all this at his tender age. Eaves and crew would have to be idiots to bring this guy overseas. They made the right choice. He's got skill, but not enough to compensate for his other, more dominant...qualities.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

USA offered Murray the spot, he took it.

We realize that, and would have no problem with it if Murray simply took it and ran...but he didn't. He used that guaranteed Team USA spot as leverage to try to get himself a guaranteed spot on Team Canada before the selection camp.

Canadians are not upset that Murray is wearing a USA jersey....we are upset that he tried to weasel his way on to our team by using his Team USA spot as leverage.

 

[chicpea*]

Punchy1,
just to put the debate on hold for a moment, are you really from New Zealand?

 

[Crosbyfan]

Hell, if Robbie Schremp can't make Team USA, Brady Murray can't be considered a lock. Team USA's and Canada's selection processes are different. USA offered Murray the spot, he took it.

EVERY spot offered on US team WAS a lock, Not just CONSIDERED. They had no tryout invites. They had TEAM invites (LOCKS). A few spots on Canada (Fleury, Burns) were considered locks.

Anyway I wish Murray well. This is hockey not basketball. US are underdogs. He shouldn't try to twist things around to the press but he may have known the type (big, fast) of players Canadas' coaching staff was after and not liked his chances of making (being picked for) the team. I'm sure HE feels he was good enough to be on the team. I don't.
I think Parise would have trouble making the Canadian team. He certainly wouldn't be getting the icetime he is now. This is not a knock on Parise either; Parise is the player of the tournament to date, but nobody on Team Canada is getting the icetime he's getting.

 

[punchy1]

Sorry chic, yes I am from NZ. A lovely place called locally as Punis Farm. I am Maori (although raised until a late teener in Ireland and the UK). Sort of a traveling mutt as it where.


My post were seen as offencive and delted by a mod. I appolgize if I offended anyone as that weren't my intention.





Brady Murray I suppose is a player who did what he felt were right. None of us know why he did what he did for a fact so all we can do is guess at what his true reasons for his actions were. Anything else is conjecture to me but as made obvious by my post being taken out, I can be wrong at times and guess i am this time too.

Cheers.

 

[chicpea*]

Sorry chic, yes I am from NZ. A lovely place called locally as Punis Farm. I am Maori (although raised until a late teener in Ireland and the UK). Sort of a traveling mutt as it where.

Well that's odd. Because I noted that you used the American spelling for the word favour, which you spelled "favor". This is even odder if you grew up in Ireland and UK where such spelling choices are not just frowned upon (as they are here in canada), but just plain incorrect.
I know we are all loose with our spelling here (though that is rude in itself ) but that really stuck out for me.

Even more bizarre, is that the post of yours which I am citing is no longer viewable above. It has been deleted (perhaps by Van, perhaps not - I don't recall anything offensive...?).

Please clarify.
yours truly,
encyclopaedia brown

 

[punchy1]

I write in the manner that I will get the least amount of flack here or try to. When I first came to the boards I were being corrected all the bleeding time. Now you write what you do. Truth said mate, I don't give a peck of scat what you think about the way I write or how you feel about my choice of spelling certain words. The superflous U as the yanks tend to call it is usually the first thing people around here have whinned about. I have already taken most of the cockney out of my way of writing/typing, should I police that for you as well? I won't but it is my nature to ask.

Any other question you have about me or my personal life away from topic will be addressed in the form of a pm from this point on please.

Cheers.


The mod said it were wrong so it were wrong. Thats enough for me.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

The post in question was deleted because it contained personal content against another user.

I will give this thread one chance to get back on-topic.

 

[punchy1]

Any comment on the fact that nobody knows, for a fact, the circumstances of what led Brady to make his decisions or is the idea that it is simply nationalism and concjecture rearing thier ugly heads?

 

[chicpea*]

hey punchy
wow, i was just joking around! You seemed to be sympathising with the US/Brady side (if that's even a "side" or relevant qualification) and I thought that was kind of funny with the ol' spelling thingee.
Anyhoo, as Van says, we should get back on topic - no, of course we don't know 'all that was said or happened' and that aspect must remain in the murky realm and domain of future sportswriters. That said, I think those of us who think that there might be an element of 'weasellyness' to the murray affair have presented our side cleary and cogently.
You optimistically argue for the benefit of the doubt and base this argument on unknowable factors. That's fine and fair too, but that sort of initial logic leads to arguments or conversations that can never be resolved. It's like saying "I know there's a god because...I just know..."
Not trying to offend, that is just a loosely based historical example of theological discussion from before Abelard.
Anyway, cheers to you too.

 

[punchy1]

Sorry mate, I am still a bit bunched about the editing thing as I would never intend to offend anyone and my mod mate and I have had a chatter about it and it is a new and challenging way of talking to another adult for me and a bit frustrating but, a learning experience and if it is frustrating for me, I can only imagine how bad it is for the mod.

Please don't regard my responses and understand my having some crack with you in my pm as well. I am having a hard time communicating what is and isn't sarcasm.

That said, I am just finding the anger curious in this issue as it smacks of one of them media driven situations where it is just controversial enough to sell some papes and get everyone worked up good and well without any substance. I don't see the facts shown anywhere.

As to Brady and his comments well, it do seem a bit poor the way he chooses to talk about things but, he is a young lad and given to opening his mouth and tasting leather but, heck aren't we all? I know I am especially of late.

 

[leafaholix*]

Any comment on the fact that nobody knows, for a fact, the circumstances of what led Brady to make his decisions or is the idea that it is simply nationalism and concjecture rearing thier ugly heads?

The reason he's wearing the red, white, and blue is because Hockey Canada said that they weren't going to promise him anything... and that he'd have to play himself onto the Canadian roster... like everyone else.

He didn't want to have to play for a roster spot in selection camp... he just wanted Hockey Canada to give him a roster spot prior to the selection camp... which has never happened in the history of the tournament.

There were "locks"... the guys who were loaned to team Canada from the NHL... and the healthy returnees from the 2003 tournament.

 

[punchy1]

I am of the opinion that you simply don't know the actual facts that made him get to that spot or that made him make his decision. You can reword it anyway you want to sir, you won't be able to provide anything to susbtantiate your position that is of a factual nature. You will get suppositions from media types but not word one from the mouth of Brady with the exception of his saying something of the effect that he will show us he can play at that level in one way or another. You will not be able to provide anything that can provide background as to what the specific reasons were that led to his decision. You can provide allot of pundits conjecture and what they *feel* were the truth but in the end, it is merely a feeling and not the specific and factual words from the mouth of Brady Murray or from the final person to make the choice for team Canada.

That is, I will respectfully chose to have the opinion that your position is incorrect and founded in opinion and not in factual information. I see it is more of a position that Canadians feel that he did something wrong to them and not to his team and appear to be unwilling to allow for the posibility that there may have been or may in fact be mitigating circumstances that led Brady to make the decisions that he did.

Of course, please understand that I am open minded to the fact that my opinion is of the same nature and based on the fact that I have yet to see either Brady or the head of the Canadian program say in thier own words what you and some others believe to be the truth and that I could be wrong in my thinking and in no way mean to put you off on what I am saying, I just have to go with the facts when a persons reputation is on the line as I have seen so many examples of a human being trashed based on pure rubbish and feel that when we do that we are acting at our worst. No offence mate.