RD Timothy Liljegren - Ex-Rogle BK, SHL (2017, 17th, TOR) III

[Samkow]

When was the last time he played a full game ?

A month ago. About posts 250-300. It's pretty much the exact same discussion as the last 50 posts, just with everybody having completely reversed their opinions.

I wonder why.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

The same game you were watching. Go watch the highlights. Timothy was the dman playing the 2 on 1s where they scored the two goals you mentioned. If he had pinched, he wouldn't be the dman back. But I do agree that people really need to settle down.

Also one game doesn't change the fact that he's still an offensive dynamo who has the potential to be the top pick from this draft and a future #1 dman or even challenge for ROTY. Will he get there? Who knows.

https://www.nhl.com/mapleleafs/video/game-in-six-september-8-2017/t-277437436/c-52578103

Skip to 4:00. He gets caught pinching on the boards trying to keep a puck in, they go down on a 2 on 1 and they hit the post. Puck comes around the boards and he jumps in the rush with Marchment who tries to pass to Liljegren but the pucks turned over and it's a 2 on 1 again where they score lol

It's not the end of the world but it did happen.


I like how you said people need to settle down and then you set his ceiling at the moon as if it's realistic.

The hockey world has developed this bad habit of thinking that every smooth skating puck moving D is going to be an offensive dynamo. It's totally possible to be a good skater without being an offensive god, for example - Jay Bouwmeester.

 

[firstemperor]

The hockey world has developed this bad habit of thinking that every smooth skating puck moving D is going to be an offensive dynamo. It's totally possible to be a good skater without being an offensive god, for example - Jay Bouwmeester.

Bouwmester was a top pairing, arguably #1D in his prime. He's not a great comparable for Liljegren because the latter actually has a plus shot from the point. Generates a lot of zip and torque on on his snap shot- which is much needed in our blueline. Obviously, he has a strong wrister or slapper at his disposal as well. Comparatively, Bouwmester really has no point shot at all at this point in his career. Not to mention Liljegren isn't really a posession skater like Bouwmester- he's more of a new-age, high-event, start the rush skater like Morgan Rielly. But I'm not here to bash Bouwmester- if Liljegren has a comparable trajectory to his, it will be a big win for us.

As for people proclaiming he had a terrible game, at this point, it is extremely overstated. I watched the full game. If you read only the hyperbole from detractors here, you'd think he didn't even belong on the ice. He didn't look good, he didn't look horrible. He was underwhelming if you watched him throughout the off-season dating back to the U18 + WJSS. It was bound to happen at some point.

He looked better as the game went on. The leafs were thoroughly out hustled for every loose puck and lost most of the puck battles all game long. Our goalies bailed us out most of the game. Once the 3rd period hit, the Habs suddenly starting getting a number of odd man rushes, where Liljegren was to blame for at least one. At the end of the day, let's keep some context. Both teams have zero chemistry and basically flew in for a glorified exhibition to showcase their skill/meet staff and gain some guidance moving forward. The Leafs have no C depth to speak of at this tourney. The Habs and Leafs are both missing a handful of their top prospects.

https://twitter.com/regressIan - Here are some highlights of Liljegren's positives in the game. he showed some flashes of smart hockey- two pretty nice short passes, one that generated a scoring chance up close. Another little nice backhand saucer pass to exit the zone. Also showed some plus skating. As Keefe said, he ran a really strong PP when he had the chance. There were high-lites and low-lites.

 

[nobody]

https://www.nhl.com/mapleleafs/video/game-in-six-september-8-2017/t-277437436/c-52578103

Skip to 4:00. He gets caught pinching on the boards trying to keep a puck in, they go down on a 2 on 1 and they hit the post. Puck comes around the boards and he jumps in the rush with Marchment who tries to pass to Liljegren but the pucks turned over and it's a 2 on 1 again where they score lol

It's not the end of the world but it did happen.


I like how you said people need to settle down and then you set his ceiling at the moon as if it's realistic.

The hockey world has developed this bad habit of thinking that every smooth skating puck moving D is going to be an offensive dynamo. It's totally possible to be a good skater without being an offensive god, for example - Jay Bouwmeester.

Like I said before, I counted at least 10-12 2 on 1s and odd man rushes for the Habs. Timmy was back playing a bunch of them. On the first play where he pinches up high to keep the puck in, that wasn't a bad play. It's actually a routine play. What the horrible play is the ****** hooking attempt of the stick by #66 on the Leafs, who let the Habs player just skate right past him. Timothy might've been better served to just stay up high on the point there but again, he had 0 support behind him as seen on that play.

The Leafs were down two d-men. So you were asking 4 guys to take the load for about half the game with 0 systems and puck support. It exposed every single player on the backend there. I don't get why people are ******** on Liljegren when he was arguably the best Leafs d-man there yesterday. He wasn't the reason why the Leafs lost yesterday and he wasn't the reason why the Leafs looked like **** for long stretches.

Lastly, his ceiling is very high, there's nothing wrong with me saying that. I never made any claims about him reaching it. I just said I don't know how good he will turn out to be. He certainly does have the potential to be a star. He makes boneheaded plays, but so do many star players. For all the love and admiration a guy like Erik Karlsson gets, he's an average defensive player at best. We just overlook his crappy play because he's a god offensively.

Celebrate the kid for who he is. He's still learning the game and he's only 18. And for the record, he is an offensive dynamo.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Bouwmester was a top pairing, arguably #1D in his prime. He's not a great comparable for Liljegren because the latter actually has a plus shot from the point. Generates a lot of zip and torque on on his snap shot- which is much needed in our blueline. Obviously, he has a strong wrister or slapper at his disposal as well. Comparatively, Bouwmester really has no point shot at all at this point in his career. Not to mention Liljegren isn't really a posession skater like Bouwmester- he's more of a new-age, high-event, start the rush skater like Morgan Rielly. But I'm not here to bash Bouwmester- if Liljegren has a comparable trajectory to his, it will be a big win for us.

As for people proclaiming he had a terrible game, at this point, it is extremely overstated. I watched the full game. If you read only the hyperbole from detractors here, you'd think he didn't even belong on the ice. He didn't look good, he didn't look horrible. He was underwhelming if you watched him throughout the off-season dating back to the U18 + WJSS. It was bound to happen at some point.

He looked better as the game went on. The leafs were thoroughly out hustled for every loose puck and lost most of the puck battles all game long. Our goalies bailed us out most of the game. Once the 3rd period hit, the Habs suddenly starting getting a number of odd man rushes, where Liljegren was to blame for at least one. At the end of the day, let's keep some context. Both teams have zero chemistry and basically flew in for a glorified exhibition to showcase their skill/meet staff and gain some guidance moving forward. The Leafs have no C depth to speak of at this tourney. The Habs and Leafs are both missing a handful of their top prospects.

https://twitter.com/regressIan - Here are some highlights of Liljegren's positives in the game. he showed some flashes of smart hockey- two pretty nice short passes, one that generated a scoring chance up close. Another little nice backhand saucer pass to exit the zone. Also showed some plus skating. As Keefe said, he ran a really strong PP when he had the chance. There were high-lites and low-lites.

It clearly wasn't a direct comparison between Liljegren and Bouwmeester, it was a general statement about smooth skating puck movers not necessarily being "offensive dynamos" and Bouwmeester is a prime example of that.

So I didn't read past word 4 because your response probably had nothing to do with the point I was making.



For what it's worth, I shared this bad habit. I use to think that speed = offense but it's just not how the game works anymore. IMO this isn't really a dig at the prospect because I love smooth skating puck movers with or without crazy offense. Look no further than Toronto again with a guy like Morgan Rielly. His offense hasn't been off the charts but he's still a very effective smooth skating puck mover that I'm sure Leafs fans will flip out & needlessly defend just because I said his offense hasn't been off the charts

 

[nobody]

It clearly wasn't a direct comparison between Liljegren and Bouwmeester, it was a general statement about smooth skating puck movers not necessarily being "offensive dynamos" and Bouwmeester is a prime example of that.

So I didn't read past word 4 because your response probably had nothing to do with the point I was making.



For what it's worth, I shared this bad habit. I use to think that speed = offense but it's just not how the game works anymore. IMO this isn't really a dig at the prospect because I love smooth skating puck movers with or without crazy offense. Look no further than Toronto again with a guy like Morgan Rielly. His offense hasn't been off the charts but he's still a very effective smooth skating puck mover that I'm sure Leafs fans will flip out & needlessly defend just because I said his offense hasn't been off the charts

I agree with your general argument. But, in Morgan's case the reason he hasn't turned into an offensive dynamo is because he's been casted as our shutdown d-man. I think there's a big difference between players who's offensive #s don't translate from juniors and those players who still possess those abilities but are just not put in a position to succeed offensively.

The same Morgan Rielly was our leading scorer in the playoffs vs the Caps with 5 points in 6 games. He's got it in him, but he just hasn't taken enough risks. As for Timothy, everywhere he's played, in almost every tournament he's played especially amongst kids his own age, all he's done is put up #s. He's not just a fast smooth skater, he's a guy that produces a ton of offense. He's always leading the rush up the ice and trying to spot a teammate on the rush. Unfortunately for Sweden, their forwards have been trash at the U17s and U18s recently and that has severely restricted players like Timothy and Erik Branstrom from putting up major #s. But even then still, both of those guys have been impressive with their production.

The summer showcase, I believe Timothy was the Swedish leading scorer and either 2nd or 3rd in scoring for the entire tournament. He's got it in him to put up big numbers.

JBo was a good offensive player coming out of juniors and again, he was and is a case of what Morgan Rielly is going through. He's a player that was put in a position where he doesn't belong. JBo is a big guy with a long reach and amazing skating, if he was put in offensive positions, he would've flourished but as of right now, he brings most of his value on the team as a solid top pairing defensive guy who can chip in points here and there.

The biggest criticism for Morgan Rielly is many fans screaming about how he hasn't blown up offensively thus far in his career, but people always fail to realise that on any D-pairing he ends up on, they rely on him to carry the other dman defensively. He's a player clearly miscasted and not put in the best position to succeed. If you gave Rielly a shutdown guy, he would turn into an absolute beast, but until he has that luxury, he's not going to put his team at risk and free wheel.

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

I remember people freaking out about Marner playing bad at rookie camp 12 months ago. It doesn't matter, its a rookie camp. Can be hard for players, especially defenseman, to 'fit' a thrown together team of people they don't know. He looked like Gardiner does occasionally in that game. Once he's on a situation where everyone knows what they are doing and he knows what hes doing, then you can get a judge on better.

 

[Zybalto]

Overreaction from all sides has been pretty silly. Liljegren had a very uneven game with brutal turnovers and flashes of brilliance(he has NHL PP QB written all over him)......as has been his MO.

For all the abuse he's been getting, he was probably the Leafs best dman overall as the parade of bad pinches and odd man rushes with forwards not getting back to help made things look even worse.

Reminds me a lot of Puljujarvi in that he has the tools to be a dynamic force in the NHL. Just needs experience and good coaching to get there.

I'd like to see him paired with Dermott for next game (if he's available)

 

[topshelf15]

Meh ,kid plays first N/A game and gets touched up a bit .Nothing new to see here ,he needs some time thats all

 

[AvsCOL]

It's been the narrative ever since the draft that the Leafs managed some sort of heist and at least 15 teams are going to regret passing him and that it was just the mono that made him fall. It's been repeated outside the fan boards, it's all over the media. It's just one game and no doubt the guy has talent and can make the Leafs look good for selecting him. But it's ok to admit that maybe it was appropriate that he was drafted where he was because the defensive questions were legitimate.

That's why people are so quick to poke fun at Leafs fans. Not only were there countless posts made about how great Liljegren was going to be, there were just as many posts bashing Heiskanen/Makar.

The concerns about his decision making were very real. I still think Liljegren will be a good player, but he's got a long way to go.

 

[Blowfish]

His hockey IQ was/ is a very very big question mark...may have difficult time making AHL roster full time. He truly looked lost out there.

 

[Cotton]

His hockey IQ was/ is a very very big question mark...may have difficult time making AHL roster full time. He truly looked lost out there.

No he didn't, he actually moved the puck well beyond that pass in the 3rd. The 1st goal was a case of him missing on a stick check and a really nice shot that beat Kaskisuo. Other than that Ian Scott needs to make some saves, had Kaskisuo remained in the net (Or if Joseph Woll was playing instead) Liljegren likely doesn't finish the game a minus player.

 

[WTFMAN99]

No he didn't, he actually moved the puck well beyond that pass in the 3rd. The 1st goal was a case of him missing on a stick check and a really nice shot that beat Kaskisuo. Other than that Ian Scott needs to make some saves, had Kaskisuo remained in the net (Or if Joseph Woll was playing instead) Liljegren likely doesn't finish the game a minus player.

Don't want to throw the goalie under the bus but literally every shot Scott faced I felt would go in.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

His hockey IQ was/ is a very very big question mark...may have difficult time making AHL roster full time. He truly looked lost out there.

This was the reason why he dropped in the draft. Not the reported mono, every scout knew he had it, that was factored in by all teams when they were picking. So it was interesting to read this narrative. No one questioned his talent. But it is what is between the ears that will determine what kind of player he becomes in the NHL. Picking #17OA in what was a weak draft one cannot blame a team for picking a potential boom prospect rather than a safe one. So in essence I do like the pick. But there are no guarantees. I do see some comparisons to Kylington or Day to TL. The key here is mental development. Some may it, some won't. But skill wise will not be the question for this player, mental development will be the challenge.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Easy to see tonight why so many teams passed up on the kid, just brutal

So when he looked pretty good at the WJSS that ,meant nothing (rightly so) but now one game of a 2 game rookie tourney where teams have no chemistry is a great way to judge his ability. This site is great.

Exactly. Funny to see Leafs fans calling that poster out when they've been hyping Liljegren for months after the draft despite him not playing any games. How is this any different? If you can hype him on 0 games, why can't posters critique him after 1 game? It's equally silly.

...only if it's the same posters that were hyping doing the calling out. There are a lot of really obtuse posters on this board that think that if a few Leafs fans said something, it equates to all Leaf fans thinking or saying that thing. It's even funnier when those people are the ones coming in acting very condescending...I mean you complained that Leaf fans were hyping him after WJSS but now defend using small sample sizes to judge a player now that the small sample reflects your opinion. At best, you and others are being as hypocritical as those Leaf fans, but you're oblivious about it. All this thread shows me is that the people constantly whining about how Leaf fans act are just as bas as those Leaf fans because they act the exact same way as soon as they are given the chance.

 

[Blowfish]

So when he looked pretty good at the WJSS that ,meant nothing (rightly so) but now one game of a 2 game rookie tourney where teams have no chemistry is a great way to judge his ability. This site is great.


...only if it's the same posters that were hyping doing the calling out. There are a lot of really obtuse posters on this board that think that if a few Leafs fans said something, it equates to all Leaf fans thinking or saying that thing. It's even funnier when those people are the ones coming in acting very condescending...I mean you complained that Leaf fans were hyping him after WJSS but now defend using small sample sizes to judge a player now that the small sample reflects your opinion. At best, you and others are being as hypocritical as those Leaf fans, but you're oblivious about it. All this thread shows me is that the people constantly whining about how Leaf fans act are just as bas as those Leaf fans because they act the exact same way as soon as they are given the chance.

Have you read the Leaf forum Tim L thread? It's a pretty large sample size.

 

[nobody]

Have you read the Leaf forum Tim L thread? It's a pretty large sample size.

Have you read any team's own thread about their own players? It's not any different. When you have a high concentration of fans, you're bound to see more opinions that may trigger you. Some people here are just upset over nothing. Also, you are absolutely clueless. An SHL player at 16 is going to have trouble making an AHL team. Okay. I don't even think you watched the game on Friday because if you thought Timothy looked lost, I don't even want to imagine what the rest of the team was doing.

 

[Aceboogie]

This was the reason why he dropped in the draft. Not the reported mono, every scout knew he had it, that was factored in by all teams when they were picking. So it was interesting to read this narrative. No one questioned his talent. But it is what is between the ears that will determine what kind of player he becomes in the NHL. Picking #17OA in what was a weak draft one cannot blame a team for picking a potential boom prospect rather than a safe one. So in essence I do like the pick. But there are no guarantees. I do see some comparisons to Kylington or Day to TL. The key here is mental development. Some may it, some won't. But skill wise will not be the question for this player, mental development will be the challenge.

Agree with this. Liljegren has a long way to go and thats the way it's always been since draft day. Upside is sky high but also has a higher risk of busting

 

[Semantics]

Love all the hate and underrating on this kid. Reminds me of when people like Winter Soldier were saying Matthews would score 45 points last year.

This guy looks awesome. Nobody cares about a bunch of mistakes in a disorganized shinny game after months of not playing. All that matters in these games is talent, and Liljegren is clearly the most talented player in the tournament.

Liljegren is going to be an elite defenseman, a superstar. Karlsson made a lot of mistakes in his first rookie tournament game too.

 

[JungleBeat]

This guy looks awesome. Nobody cares about a bunch of mistakes in a disorganized shinny game after months of not playing. All that matters in these games is talent, and Liljegren is clearly the most talented player in the tournament.

Liljegren is going to be an elite defenseman, a superstar. Karlsson made a lot of mistakes in his first rookie tournament game too.

That would be Chabot.

 

[AppsSyl]

Agree with this. Liljegren has a long way to go and thats the way it's always been since draft day. Upside is sky high but also has a higher risk of busting

Actually, he has one of the lowest risks of busting the 2017 draft given his tools and strengths. They will ensure that he is at the least a powerplay specialist in the NHL.

 

[nobody]

Actually, he has one of the lowest risks of busting the 2017 draft given his tools and strengths. They will ensure that he is at the least a powerplay specialist in the NHL.

He was drafted at 17 which means he was a high risk high reward player (I don't get the logic here). Let the people have their beliefs. We'll all see how Timothy turns out in due time.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I don't think it should be taken as a negative saying he is a boom or bust prospect, because well honestly he is and I think a lot of fans get infatuated with looking at the scenario where he booms(obviously I hope this does happen) but it doesn't hurt to say that he could not end up fixing the holes in his game and fizzle out. I think reading to much into anything at this point of the year is silly, give it a few months into the season and see how he is progressing with the Marlies that will be the true test.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

I don't think it should be taken as a negative saying he is a boom or bust prospect, because well honestly he is and I think a lot of fans get infatuated with looking at the scenario where he booms(obviously I hope this does happen) but it doesn't hurt to say that he could not end up fixing the holes in his game and fizzle out. I think reading to much into anything at this point of the year is silly, give it a few months into the season and see how he is progressing with the Marlies that will be the true test.

I think the point is that even if he only marginally improves, he can carve out an MA Bergeron/Franson type of career in the NHL. Extremely sheltered 3rd pairing minutes + PP time. Obviously not what you want with a 1st round pick but it's better than getting nothing at all.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Seems disappointing