RD Timothy Liljegren - Ex-Rogle BK, SHL (2017, 17th, TOR) III

[Halla]

It's different because hischier worked his way up to the top of the draft board while liljegren plummeted down ....... Is this the answer you were looking for or am I missing something

then again, 8 months ago Liljegren was easily ahead. Now Hischier is easily ahead, but where will they be in a few years?

the #1 pick doesnt always end up being the best player in the draft.
for every Mcdavid and Matthews there is a Yakupov, RNH, Hall...

i think the thing you are missing is the leafs did well to get liljegren at 17 and pretty much every fan would feel the same way if they had been in the same spot

 

[pezcore]

It is difficult to tell to what extent Liljegren's play was impacted by his illness and injury. You are right that there could be more to his stagnated development than the mono.

Below are a few reasons why a lot of us are optimistic that it was his illness and injury that stagnated his development rather than something more.

1) The high level of skill and hockey sense he showed as a 16 year old in the SHL, is not something you just lose the next season when you are playing at the same level. Often when players plummet in the rankings from one season to the next it is either, because they have moved up a level and their skillset doesn't translate, or there were players carrying them that are gone. Neither was the case with Liljegren.
2) The effects of mono coincide with some of the observations that the scouts were seeing (decision making).
3) The WJSS (although a short summer tourney) did clearly show against quality competition that hockey sense criticisms were being overblown, that he is in fact sound and competent defensively, that he is dynamic offensively, and that he is beginning to show the form he had before the mono and hip injury.
4) He faced a tremendous amount of adversity during the season other than just the mono, which included: being bounced around multiple teams/levels, hip injury, tire fire of a team in Rogle who was facing relegation, attempting to return early from mono, and the weight of draft year expectations when everything seems to be going wrong. That is a lot for a 17 year kid to have to deal with in their draft year.
5) It seems due to limited viewings with all that had happened, scouts put a lot of extra weight into his performance at the U18 tourney, in which he didn't dominate, but in fairness, played on an offensively challenged Swedish team and had just come off a hip injury. This I believe ensured his fall on draft day.
6) There seems to be a lot of revisionist history as far as his scouting reports go. Reports from his 16 year old D-1 season rave about his hockey IQ and hockey sense, and then in his draft year around January some scouts start to question it. I don't think a player just loses hockey sense. There is also revisionist history as far as his Hlinka performance goes. Reports at the time of the tourney raved about his performance and then months later McKagg and a couple of others change the narrative and said he played poorly (I question whether they even watched it).
7) Leafs management and scouting is pretty savvy, and Mark Hunter seemed very confident in the pick and his illness was the culprit for his stagnated development.

All fair arguments that all of his bad performances last year could be due to the illness. That is the most reasonable answer however, it did create enough doubt thats scouts and GMs had another name on top of their list when it came their time to speak at the draft. That it the sole reason why I think it could be more than just mono and adversity. Personally, Id like to see more than a summer showcase to say that it was just the mono but it looks promising indeed.

 

[Tripod]

then again, 8 months ago Liljegren was easily ahead. Now Hischier is easily ahead, but where will they be in a few years?

the #1 pick doesnt always end up being the best player in the draft.
for every Mcdavid and Matthews there is a Yakupov, RNH, Hall...

i think the thing you are missing is the leafs did well to get liljegren at 17 and pretty much every fan would feel the same way if they had been in the same spot

I don't think people have an issue when a Leaf fan says that Liljegren at #17 is a great pick for the Leafs. Or at least shouldn't. They need a RHD with good upside and got one.

The issue becomes when CERTAIN Leaf fans say with certainly that Liljegren will be the top D in the draft, or the top player from the draft. Or that he ONLY fell due to getting mono. Obviously you can expect pushback with that type of comment.

As I said earlier, a year from now, guys will rise, and guys will fall. All you can hope for is steady positive development from whoever your team drafts. These guys are 5 years from being near finished products anyways.

 

[Kamiccolo]

All fair arguments that all of his bad performances last year could be due to the illness. That is the most reasonable answer however, it did create enough doubt thats scouts and GMs had another name on top of their list when it came their time to speak at the draft. That it the sole reason why I think it could be more than just mono and adversity. Personally, Id like to see more than a summer showcase to say that it was just the mono but it looks promising indeed.

Assuming Liljegren hits his potential, he would not be the first, nor the last great player to fall in the draft after being over scouted.

I don't think people have an issue when a Leaf fan says that Liljegren at #17 is a great pick for the Leafs. Or at least shouldn't. They need a RHD with good upside and got one.

The issue becomes when CERTAIN Leaf fans say with certainly that Liljegren will be the top D in the draft, or the top player from the draft. Or that he ONLY fell due to getting mono. Obviously you can expect pushback with that type of comment.

As I said earlier, a year from now, guys will rise, and guys will fall. All you can hope for is steady positive development from whoever your team drafts. These guys are 5 years from being near finished products anyways.

Go into literally ANY thread and there are fans of that team saying they will hit their ceiling and if that is the case, they are most likely in discussion for top of the draft.

This is not Leaf specific, but for some reason only Leaf fans are called out on this. Most of us are just excited and want to talk about his potential, and a few guys get carried away and say a few things. That doesn't mean we need an army of fans to come in and try and make Leaf fans feel bad and make them feel their pick sucks.

It's not just here either, literally any thread has guys coming in trying to down play something that happened. Look no further than threads last summer laughing, LITERALLY laughing at Leaf fans expecting a competitive season and the rookies to make an impact. Now it's played off as "not that impressive" despite them shattering all expectations.

It's been happening on here for as long as I can remember. Leafs get over rated by Leaf fans and severely under rated by most neutral fans. How I somehow had an argument last year with Devils fans that they would finish higher than the Leafs I have no idea.

 

[TDK67]

I don't think people have an issue when a Leaf fan says that Liljegren at #17 is a great pick for the Leafs. Or at least shouldn't. They need a RHD with good upside and got one.

The issue becomes when CERTAIN Leaf fans say with certainly that Liljegren will be the top D in the draft, or the top player from the draft. Or that he ONLY fell due to getting mono. Obviously you can expect pushback with that type of comment.

As I said earlier, a year from now, guys will rise, and guys will fall. All you can hope for is steady positive development from whoever your team drafts. These guys are 5 years from being near finished products anyways.

Sorry, but this is BS.

It's cheap and easy to pander to the HF hivemind with this "everyone-else-is-trying-to-be-objective-while-SOME-Leafs-fans-are-ruining-the-dialogue" narrative, but that's usually a remarkably ignorant take and especially so in this thread.

It's almost always a two-way street and these pages on Liljegren are filled with BOTH homers (that are too high on him) and haters (that miraculously began to believe Liljegren was a bust as soon as he was drafted despite their comment history indicating they were very high on him prior to draft day).

So, no, "the issue" doesn't "become when CERTAIN Leafs fans" bla bla bla. The "issue" is extremists from BOTH sides trying to push their opinions as facts.

At least try to truly be impartial and perceptive if we're going to play the HF Diplomat role that has someone coming in to "explain" why Leafs fans are messing up their own prospect's thread.

P.S. my point isn't targeted only at you, Tripod. I just see way too many posts like yours that pretend to have good intentions and objectivity but completely miss the mark.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Sorry, but this is BS.

It's cheap and easy to pander to the HF hivemind with this "everyone-else-is-trying-to-be-objective-while-SOME-Leafs-fans-are-ruining-the-dialogue" narrative, but that's usually a remarkably ignorant take and especially so in this thread.

It's almost always a two-way street and these pages on Liljegren are filled with BOTH homers (that are too high on him) and haters (that miraculously began to believe Liljegren was a bust as soon as he was drafted despite their comment history indicating they were very high on him prior to draft day).

So, no, "the issue" doesn't "become when CERTAIN Leafs fans" bla bla bla. The "issue" is extremists from BOTH sides trying to push their opinions as facts.

At least try to truly be impartial and perceptive if we're going to play the HF Diplomat role that has someone coming in to "explain" why Leafs fans are messing up their own prospect's thread.

P.S. my point isn't targeted only at you, Tripod. I just see way too many posts like yours that pretend to have good intentions and objectivity but completely miss the mark.

I'm excited, and he has potential but if you make absolute statements about prospects that aren't named McDavid, Eichel, and Matthews etc you leave yourself open to looking like a fool.

 

[X66]

I think another reason Leaf fans are more excited than usual for Liljegren is that I don't think many of them realistically thought they had a chance at him with the 17th pick. Most of the mock drafts didn't have him dropping that far down the list.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter where he was drafted now, he just has to develop and go forward with the organization.

He already has elite speed, elite skating(agility/mobility), high end offensive ability and good strength for his age, now it's up to him and the development team to put it together.

 

[Muston Atthews]

I think another reason Leaf fans are more excited than usual for Liljegren is that I don't think many of them realistically thought they had a chance at him with the 17th pick. Most of the mock drafts didn't have him dropping that far down the list.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter where he was drafted now, he just has to develop and go forward with the organization.

He already has elite speed, elite skating(agility/mobility), high end offensive ability and good strength for his age, now it's up to him and the development team to put it together.

Well if you followed a certain Devils poster's mock draft you can see why us Leafs fans are ecstatic he dropped to us

 

[pezcore]

I think another reason Leaf fans are more excited than usual for Liljegren is that I don't think many of them realistically thought they had a chance at him with the 17th pick. Most of the mock drafts didn't have him dropping that far down the list.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter where he was drafted now, he just has to develop and go forward with the organization.

He already has elite speed, elite skating(agility/mobility), high end offensive ability and good strength for his age, now it's up to him and the development team to put it together.

Couldnt have said it better myself. Some put way too much importance on draft position and in the end, it means next to nothing. Whats important is that the team was able to get something out of those first few rounds picks. A 1st round pick and even 2nd round picks are expected to be NHL players. So 5 years down the road, if they are NHL players and if they are able to fill in the role that the team drafted them for, then its a win in my books. .

Leafs drafted Lilejegren to be a top 4 D, with the potential of being a top 2D. If he becomes a top 4D, mission accomplished. Teams dont pay attention to who got drafted where as fans do. As long as the player reaches TEAM expectations (cannot stress enough on team and not fans expectations) then they're happy regarldess if a "`better"`was drafted a few spots afterwards. St

 

[g00n]

Stay on topic. If someone is off topic report them, don't play mod.

This was not an optional suggestion yet we're still removing posts.

If you persist in talking about fanbases or other OT subjects and mods see it we're going to remove you from this and possibly future threads about this player.

Discuss the player, not each other, mod actions, or anything else.

 

[zeke]

then again, 8 months ago Liljegren was easily ahead. Now Hischier is easily ahead, but where will they be in a few years?

the #1 pick doesnt always end up being the best player in the draft.
for every Mcdavid and Matthews there is a Yakupov, RNH, Hall...

i think the thing you are missing is the leafs did well to get liljegren at 17 and pretty much every fan would feel the same way if they had been in the same spot

It's funny because i don't think hischier or patrick really earned even a top 5 slot, as there are 3-4 dmen who have much more imoressive track record than either, and there are even forwards like petterson and middlestat who are arguably more exciting too.

 

[zeke]

Sorry, but this is BS.

It's cheap and easy to pander to the HF hivemind with this "everyone-else-is-trying-to-be-objective-while-SOME-Leafs-fans-are-ruining-the-dialogue" narrative, but that's usually a remarkably ignorant take and especially so in this thread.

It's almost always a two-way street and these pages on Liljegren are filled with BOTH homers (that are too high on him) and haters (that miraculously began to believe Liljegren was a bust as soon as he was drafted despite their comment history indicating they were very high on him prior to draft day).

So, no, "the issue" doesn't "become when CERTAIN Leafs fans" bla bla bla. The "issue" is extremists from BOTH sides trying to push their opinions as facts.

At least try to truly be impartial and perceptive if we're going to play the HF Diplomat role that has someone coming in to "explain" why Leafs fans are messing up their own prospect's thread.

P.S. my point isn't targeted only at you, Tripod. I just see way too many posts like yours that pretend to have good intentions and objectivity but completely miss the mark.

There's one uncontroversial fact here - Liljegren's SHL resume puts him in elite prospect comps already, while none of the forwards in this draft can say the same, though a couple of other dmen can.

 

[TDK67]

There's one uncontroversial fact here - Liljegren's SHL resume puts him in elite prospect comps already, while none of the forwards in this draft can say the same, though a couple of other dmen can.

Yea its weird how this was billed the "Nolan/Nico draft" when their CHL numbers were pretty unremarkable compared to other top CHL prospects in their draft years. There were probably other factors at play, but it will be interesting to look back on this draft in 4-5 years and see how everyone stacks up.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Is he staying in Sweden, or are the Leafs going to bring him the AHL?

 

[93LEAFS]

Is he staying in Sweden, or are the Leafs going to bring him the AHL?

Won't be determined definitively until training camp. I can't see them moving him around mid-year unless Rogle puts him on the bench.

 

[Halla]

Is he staying in Sweden, or are the Leafs going to bring him the AHL?

probably sweden

Dermott
Nielsen
Rosen
Borgman
Valiev
Loverde
Holl

thats 7 guys with NHL contracts, only 1 of which will make the leafs this year.cant see liljegren getting ice time over guys that are 4-7 years older

 

[93LEAFS]

There's one uncontroversial fact here - Liljegren's SHL resume puts him in elite prospect comps already, while none of the forwards in this draft can say the same, though a couple of other dmen can.

Patrick's draft-2 and Draft-1 years or if you want to group them as 16-year-old season and 17-year-old season. Pettersson numbers, when grouped by draft year, are astonishing, not as strong when shifted to draft year.

 

[Trilliann]

Won't be determined definitively until training camp. I can't see them moving him around mid-year unless Rogle puts him on the bench.

What about the Rookie Tournament, any chance to see him there?

 

[TheBeastCoast]

What about the Rookie Tournament, any chance to see him there?

I would think he will be there.

 

[Pyrophorus]

What about the Rookie Tournament, any chance to see him there?

He said he would be coming back late to the SHL season, due to the Tourney and camp.

 

[TDK67]

Looking more and more likely he stays in NA (most likely w/Marlies):

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/...maple-leafs-timothy-liljegren-torontos-player

 

[weems]

Even if it does turn out that he has questionable hockeysense or that hes prone to some costly gaffs here and there, these types of players (elite skaters, with offensive talent) are going to be looked at moreso for what they bring vs their shortcomings. With the way the game is played nowadays, players who can skate back into their own zone, retrieve the puck and skate it out of danger areas are extremely valuable. Jake Gardiner is a perfect example of someone whos been a good player for awhile but really just starting to get respect with analytics becoming more a part of player analysis.

For this reason alone I think his floor is a servicable NHL D.

 

[LeafChief]

Can't wait to see this guy in camp.

I think he's going to tease us a bit in the exhibition games but ultimately he needs to be in the SHL/AHL next season.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Looking more and more likely he stays in NA (most likely w/Marlies):

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/...maple-leafs-timothy-liljegren-torontos-player

Awesome. Stay away from Rogle

 

[Cleatus]

Looking more and more likely he stays in NA (most likely w/Marlies):

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/...maple-leafs-timothy-liljegren-torontos-player

Yay!!!