Toggle sidebar

RD Moritz Seider (2019, 6th, DET) Part 3

  • Xenforo Cloud has upgraded us to version 2.3.6. Please report any issues you experience.
  • We are currently aware of "log in/security error" issues that are affecting some users. We apologize and ask for your patience as we try to get these issues fixed.
Vinegar Strokes said:
None of what you said is untrue and Seider looks to be a safe bet to be a Norris candidate in the near feature, kid looks unreal.

As for the Zegras part, he’s also much more physically underdeveloped compared to Seider. He’s never going to be big but he has a lot of physical growth left to do, he’s just a skinny kid out there right now. The consistency will come when he’s physically able to manage the grind of the season and will help him play his game even more. Might be a few seasons before we see that, he looks like a late bloomer.
Click to expand...

As has already mentioned Seider also still has areas to improve upon particularly in terms of adding muscle(it is amazing how much he wins physical challenges despite his lanky build) as well as improving his shot so I anticipate his effectiveness to improve even further the more he works on those weaknesses in the future.
 
Last edited:
Northern Avs Fan said:
I think it’s an interesting discussion.

Makar was 4th in points per game his rookie year and paced for 72 points per 82 game schedule. Moritz is 18th in points per game among defenceman, but is playing a larger role. I think about 1:45 more TOI than Makar was as a rookie.

I believe Makar was 8th, or 9th in Norris voting as a rookie. I could see Seider right around that range if he keeps playing so well for the remainder of the year.
Click to expand...

I don't want to make this a Makar vs Seider debate (not suggesting that is where you are going here). I think when Makar's career is over, he will be considered one of the greatest dmen in the history of the NHL. That is how much respect I have for Makar.

That said, Seider is an amazing player as well, and he should win the Calder this year and I think both Makar and Seider are likely to win numerous Norris trophies in their careers.

It wasn't long ago that putting such lofty expectations on rookie dmen would have been foolish. However, what we have seen with Makar and Fox, and to a lesser extend Hughes, Heiskanen, and others, is that some young can have an immediate impact on the NHL, and Seider is continuing that trend.
 
Ed Ned and Leddy said:
Michael Bunting is such a wet blanket on the Calder discussion. He's a full year older than Dylan Larkin, who is now playing in his seventh full season. He's also playing on a line with two perennial Allstars.

Very good pick up for Toronto, combative player and a nice goal-scorer. He filled the hole left by Hyman very well. But not someone who really belongs in a discussion with Seider, Zegras, Lundell, Raymond, etc. imo, regardless of his rookie status.
Click to expand...
Agree completely. I roll my eyes when he’s discussed as a Calder candidate
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ricelund, cjm502, bsu and 1 other person
FlyguyOX said:
Agree completely. I roll my eyes when he’s discussed as a Calder candidate
Click to expand...

If it were a significantly weaker Calder class he might get more attention, but I just don't see any way he's a realistic contender for the trophy.
 
Ed Ned and Leddy said:
Michael Bunting is such a wet blanket on the Calder discussion. He's a full year older than Dylan Larkin, who is now playing in his seventh full season. He's also playing on a line with two perennial Allstars.

Very good pick up for Toronto, combative player and a nice goal-scorer. He filled the hole left by Hyman very well. But not someone who really belongs in a discussion with Seider, Zegras, Lundell, Raymond, etc. imo, regardless of his rookie status.
Click to expand...

rookie status is rookie status, either he's eligible or he's not, the league chose to have the cutoff be turning 26 by September and any special consideration beyond what the rules say being given to age would honestly be kind of a joke, change the rules if you don't like the idea of 25-26 year olds winning it

the linemate argument is a pretty reasonable one however
 
I think at this point I'm going:

Seider

Lundell
Zegras/raymond

For Calder.
 
ricky0034 said:
rookie status is rookie status, either he's eligible or he's not
Click to expand...
Bunting is like a joke example someone comes up with to point out how dumb elibility rules can become and then someone replies "that would never happen".

- Had he played just 1 more game in 2018-19 he wouldn't be eligible
or
- If he had played 4 more games in 2020-21
or
- If he had been born 2 days earlier

He pretty much is the physical manifestation of the eligibility rules.

Meanwhile, a guy like Evan Bouchard isn't eligible despite being many years younger and having about 200 games less pro experience, including less NHL games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Northern Avs Fan, gucc and AD1066
Pavels Dog said:
Bunting is like a joke example someone comes up with to point out how dumb elibility rules can become and then someone replies "that would never happen".

- Had he played just 1 more game in 2018-19 he wouldn't be eligible
or
- If he had played 4 more games in 2020-21
or
- If he had been born 2 days earlier

He pretty much is the physical manifestation of the eligibility rules.

Meanwhile, a guy like Evan Bouchard isn't eligible despite being many years younger and having about 200 games less pro experience, including less NHL games.
Click to expand...

had Zegras played 1 more game last year he wouldn't be eligible

had Nedeljkovic played 2 more games last year he wouldn't be eligible

players are close to the eligibility line all the time but the line is the line and it's silly to pretend otherwise

don't like it? change the line it wouldn't be the first time the league has done that, but don't try and weasel your way out of voting for a guy that's eligible just because you don't like that they are
 
ricky0034 said:
had Zegras played 1 more game last year he wouldn't be eligible

had Nedeljkovic played 2 more games last year he wouldn't be eligible

players are close to the eligibility line all the time but the line is the line and it's silly to pretend otherwise

don't like it? change the line it wouldn't be the first time the league has done that, but don't try and weasel your way out of voting for a guy that's eligible just because you don't like that they are
Click to expand...
I don’t know why people insist on being obtuse. It’s fairly obvious why a 26-year old rookie isn’t in the spirit of the award, when most rookies are in their very early 20s or 18/19, and most NHL forwards are in their peak at 26.
 
There's no point in complaining about eligibility. Bunting is eligible and therefore worth considering for the Calder and undoubtedly will get some votes. He won't get enough to win because the circumstances that allow him to still be eligible, and the circumstances of his usage, make what he's doing less impressive than the other main candidates. All it will add up to is allowing the fan of some player that finishes fourth or fifth in voting to bitch about the terrible crime of being robbed of a third- or fourth-place finish.

Like many things with Covid, the short season last year played havoc with Calder eligibility rules. Bunting's 21 GP with Arizona was 37.5 per cent of the season; the 25-game cutoff is 30.5 per cent of a normal season. Zegras, Drysdale and Nedeljkov likewise played a greater percentage of games than the normal rookie cutoff. The short season was all the NHL should have needed to revise its eligibility rules to limit voting to those who are rookies by the intent of its own definition.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hazy Little Thing
ricky0034 said:
had Zegras played 1 more game last year he wouldn't be eligible

had Nedeljkovic played 2 more games last year he wouldn't be eligible

players are close to the eligibility line all the time but the line is the line and it's silly to pretend otherwise
Click to expand...
Bunting is extremely close to crossing the line on all 3 criteria for eligibility. Zegras was close to one. Not similar at all.
Nedeljkovic is also a bit ridiculous but no one cares since he's not close to getting any votes.

At the end of the day I think voters will hesitate to vote for a guy who by all intents and purposes is a veteran, when there are rookies like Zegras, Seider, Raymond, Lundell and more.
 
I’d still give Seider the Calder over Bunting. Love him on the Leafs but without Matthews and Marner I don’t think he’s putting up those numbers. Seider is a 20 year old on a bottom feeder team playing top pairing minutes every night
 
LarKing said:
When’s the last time this was done by any rookie? Fox? Makar?
Click to expand...
Fox(U22), Makar(U22), Hughes(U21), & Dahlin(U19) all had a 5-game point streak in their rookie seasons.

One rookie defenseman in 2015-16 had a 15-game point streak(he holds the record AFAIK). Can you guess who? None other than Gostisbere(U23).
 
  • Like
Reactions: izlez
theslatcher said:
Fox(U22), Makar(U22), Hughes(U21), & Dahlin(U19) all had a 5-game point streak in their rookie seasons.

One rookie defenseman in 2015-16 had a 15-game point streak(he holds the record AFAIK). Can you guess who? None other than Gostisbere(U23).
Click to expand...
Before the Flyers ruined him. Good times.
 
He'll prob come in around 60-65 points this year which would be more than lidstrom and right around Chelios and Bourque for most points by a rookie dman. So roughly 7th-5th all time. Feels crazy just typing it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Realgud
Sweetpotato said:
He'll prob come in around 60-65 points this year which would be more than lidstrom and right around Chelios and Bourque for most points by a rookie dman. So roughly 7th-5th all time. Feels crazy just typing it.
Click to expand...
And we were told by all of the "experts" that he had LiMiTeD OfFeNsIvE UpSiDe around the time he was drafted.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom