RD Mitchell Miller - Tri-City Storm, USHL (2020, 111th, ARI, rights renounced)

[William H Bonney]

I don't know why some folks keep bringing up the "he was 14" angle as if that's all there is to this. The tweet that started this all talked about how some teams have felt Mitchell and his family haven't been forthright about the incident and that he hasn't interviewed well. If he's learned no communicable lessons in 4 years after grotesquely bullying a disabled kid, the "he was 14" cries are hollow.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't know why some folks keep bringing up the "he was 14" angle as if that's all there is to this. The tweet that started this all talked about how some teams have felt Mitchell and his family haven't been forthright about the incident and that he hasn't interviewed well. If he's learned no communicable lessons in 4 years after grotesquely bullying a disabled kid, the "he was 14" cries are hollow.

Not being forthright with strangers about an experience that probably was also a traumatic period of his life doesn't mean he hasn't learned lessons. People often forget that to do what he did usually does require inner demons of some sort.

For all the talk about how he was 14 back then, he's only 18 now. He's not a bad kid at 18 if he doesn't want to go on an apology tour years later. Maybe he still has demons. It wouldn't mean he hasn't learned lessons.

Then again, he may be a bad kid, but I find it extremely curious how people here are concluding that he is. It's so easy for fans to pile on in a situation like this. I think we should all be honest about this and say we don't know. Realistically, NHL teams probably also don't know about his current character.

 

[William H Bonney]

Not being forthright with strangers about an experience that probably was also a traumatic period of his life doesn't mean he hasn't learned lessons. People often forget that to do what he did usually does require inner demons of some sort.

For all the talk about how he was 14 back then, he's only 18 now. He's not a bad kid at 18 if he doesn't want to go on an apology tour years later. Maybe he still has demons. It wouldn't mean he hasn't learned lessons.

Then again, he may be a bad kid, but I find it extremely curious how people here are concluding that he is. It's so easy for fans to pile on in a situation like this. I think we should all be honest about this and say we don't know. Realistically, NHL teams probably also don't know about his current character.

It's not about an "apology tour." He's trying to be drafted. With that comes prospective teams asking him all sorts of questions to assess a variety of things beyond his hockey abilities.

I didn't proclaim he has or hasn't learned any lessons. I said communicable lessons. If Mitchell and his family don't understand the need for him to communicate to prospective NHL teams what he's learned from his actions, that's Mitchell's issue and another lesson he needs to learn.

NHL teams are under no obligation to continually give a player the benefit of the doubt after said player mentally and physically assaulted a disabled kid, allegedly hasn't been forthright about it, and hasn't interviewed well. Their concerns are completely reasonable and justified under those circumstances.

 

[Guttersniped]

Miller’s junior career was seemingly unaffected by his crime, he’s going to U of North Dakota and will presumably be drafted by some NHL team. This kid didn’t exactly excessively suffer for what he did, some harsh words from the judge and community service, so I must be missing the horrible life curse placed upon him by moral scolds.

If he interviews poorly or doesn’t express much remorse, it’s understandable that some teams might not want to get into relationship with him that involves giving him a contract potentially worth millions in a few years. Teams aren’t wrong to have standards for who they draft and get in business with. People think he will still get drafted, it’s not a cosmic injustice for his draft slot to drop over this.

 

[IslesNorway]

I think we can be totally confident that this kid has been under heavy scrutiny since the incident. If he ends up going high then they have no issues with his character but if he ends up not being drafted it's safe to say he hasn't improved as a human being

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

What he did was pretty bad, and it was not a one time incident, but went on for years. His lack of remorse, commented on by the judge, is telling, also. Having said all that, if now, years later, he admits his fault during interviews and is contrite, then I'm sure he will be picked, though perhaps lower than he would otherwise be. If he is too stupid to do that, then he doesn't deserve to be drafted.

So, he is being judged not only for his past actions, but also how he views his past actions now.

What I remember is that the Magistrate, you know the civil servant that he actually talked to several times found him remorseful. Now the judge did not and certainly it is something if he is bombing in interviews is going to be a problem for him. It was horrible. I am not defending that. But I think I read a different article that was more his families side and the appointed civil servant saying they believed he did learn from this. Perhaps he is not very good at talking about it and it takes several sessions for you to understand the impact it had on him.

 

[57special]

Sorry, it's not one incident, but a series of incidents over years inflicted on a handicapped person. I don't give a damn if he doesn't like to talk about it...all he has to do is own up to it, unlike his victim, who was helpless under the onslaught of his bullying.

Forgiveness, sure... for someone who is contrite (as i believe the other party was) and willing to make amends. The guy is still young, and i most definitely do not know the entire story, but it sure seems that Miller is more remorseful that he got caught rather than truly understanding the fear that he put another person through for a long period of time. I've seen what happens to the victims of this sort of stuff. The aftermath hangs around them for years, and warps their formative years.

 

[simonedvinsson]

I've seen what happens to the victims of this sort of stuff. The aftermath hangs around them for years, and warps their formative years.

I’m in the camp that has a hard time giving Mitchell a second chance. My older brother is severely autistic, mentally disabled, and has had serious medical ailments he’s had to deal with his whole life. He’s 37 years old and is at about a second grade level mentally. He was severely bullied in school as a child by other kids and even some of the teachers to a lesser degree. He tried swim lessons until kids bullied him enough that he hated swimming. Bowling. Acting. Et cetera. Same story. Eventually, he gave up on not only his dreams but on people in general. He trusts almost no one, and while he is the sweetest person in my world, odds are slim you’d ever get a chance to know him because he wouldn’t let you in. It’s heart-breaking, but I don’t blame him for shutting the world out.

Do I believe in second chances? Sure, but they don’t come cheap. I think you have to go above and beyond to earn them, particularly in a job that sets someone up to be a role model to children. I will admit that my personal experience biases my thoughts, but he isn’t 14 anymore, and at 18, I’d want to hear his thoughts on the incident if I was considering drafting him. If he owns it, if he’s remorseful, et cetera, then great. The rumors going around suggest he isn’t, but I hope that’s not the case.

 

[JadedRandom]

What’s wrong with you people? Miller was 14.

A 14 year old understands right and wrong, but can't always comprehend the true depth and ramifications of their actions. That’s why they're not held to the same standards as adults.

Bullies, even severe ones, aren’t innately bad kids. They act out for a variety of reasons (bad parenting, insecurity, etc.). Get inside a kid's head and you can change their life forever. Heck, bullies also change as they mature and are exposed to different ways of life beyond the troubled worldview of their youth. Happens all the time.

Has or will Miller change? No idea. But demonizing an adult for their actions at 14 is beyond absurd. It’s actually something a 14 year old would do.

Bingo. Someone gets it.

Some very competent psychologists, specialists on the human brain and development of children's psyche (and sense of identity), have examined very closely the development of the synapses, of different parts of the brain (ruling over faculties such as reason and empathy) and their interconnections in regards to our awareness of ourselves and others, of what could be summarily understood as our understanding of right or wrong, the basis of which could be loosely defined as ''moral behavior'' and the responsability that we have towards our own acts.

What they have found is that most if not all children and teenagers from 0 to about 16 have not reached a sufficient level of development cognitively speaking to comprehend all ramifications of any act of theirs, and that the part of the brain that governs over empathy is still largely underdeveloped at that time, meaning that the overwhelming majority of them are incapable of truly taking responsibility for their actions, putting themselves in other people's places, and must thus rightfully defer to their parents or legal guardians in most cases. In short, teenagers have only slightly more judgment before 16 as your full-grown adult does when drunk, but obviously better faculties.

Think about that for a second before you hand out car keys to your kids or leave them with too much freedom. I'm not saying to sequester them, no, but keep a close eye on them until the are 18+ and ready to live on their own, then give them advice (that they will shrug off and not listen to) and let them go while being ready at any time to cushion their fall when and if it happens. That's basically modern parenting 101 in a nutshell.

Anyways, Miller will or will not become a better person, and it will depend on his own self-awareness and effort to change going forward, but we should not be so critical on him based on what he did as a much younger kid.

 

[bigdog16]

Bingo. Someone gets it.

Some very competent psychologists, specialists on the human brain and development of children's psyche (and sense of identity), have examined very closely the development of the synapses, of different parts of the brain (ruling over faculties such as reason and empathy) and their interconnections in regards to our awareness of ourselves and others, of what could be summarily understood as our understanding of right or wrong, the basis of which could be loosely defined as ''moral behavior'' and the responsability that we have towards our own acts.

What they have found is that most if not all children and teenagers from 0 to about 16 have not reached a sufficient level of development cognitively speaking to comprehend all ramifications of any act of theirs, and that the part of the brain that governs over empathy is still largely underdeveloped at that time, meaning that the overwhelming majority of them are incapable of truly taking responsibility for their actions, putting themselves in other people's places, and must thus rightfully defer to their parents or legal guardians in most cases. In short, teenagers have only slightly more judgment before 16 as your full-grown adult does when drunk, but obviously better faculties.

Think about that for a second before you hand out car keys to your kids or leave them with too much freedom. I'm not saying to sequester them, no, but keep a close eye on them until the are 18+ and ready to live on their own, then give them advice (that they will shrug off and not listen to) and let them go while being ready at any time to cushion their fall when and if it happens. That's basically modern parenting 101 in a nutshell.

Anyways, Miller will or will not become a better person, and it will depend on his own self-awareness and effort to change going forward, but we should not be so critical on him based on what he did as a much younger kid.

The fact that he never showed remorse and is interviewing poorly points to the answer here

 

[JadedRandom]

The fact that he never showed remorse and is interviewing poorly points to the answer here

Yup. To have the opportunity to better yourself doesn't mean it comes easy, or that everyone can and wants to make that change. What it simply means, in correlation with the changes that come with aging, is that we shouldn't judge him and every other kid out there based on what they've done years in the past, but try and see how they act right now, as near adults.

But I agree, all signs tend to point towards Miller being something of a congenital asshole. It happens, and sometimes there is but one cure for it, and it is of the definitive kind.

 

[Static]

Some psychopathic vibes there, the judge's words are especially chilling. I hope the parents got him into some sort of therapy for that kind of behavior.

How would people here feel if your team drafts this kid? I think I'd have a tough time with it.

 

[Kevin Musto]

How would people here feel if your team drafts this kid? I think I'd have a tough time with it.

I feel pretty confident my team won't draft him.

Not a player you want representing your organization.

 

[BB06]

Light bullying that happens all the time is a completely different to targeting a disable kid with some absolute brutal attacks. Making someone eat a piss drenched push pop is damn disgusting.

 

[VanJack]

The concern here is that among males in this age category, these kind of incidents aren't 'isolated'.

Major Junior Hockey in Canada is currently embroiled in an ugly scandal involving hazing incidents on team buses and dressing-rooms. Lawsuits are pending and some of the pre-examination of alleged facts are pretty damning. They're reminiscent of the novel "Lord of the Flies'.

The moral for parents and coaches is 'talk to your kids' to get the bottom of what is going on in their lives. 'Right' and 'Wrong' are taught at an early age. And 'apathy','remote parenting' or homes broken by divorce, are no excuses.

 

[Static]

The concern here is that among males in this age category, these kind of incidents aren't 'isolated'.

Major Junior Hockey in Canada is currently embroiled in an ugly scandal involving hazing incidents on team buses and dressing-rooms. Lawsuits are pending and some of the pre-examination of alleged facts are pretty damning. They're reminiscent of the novel "Lord of the Flies'.

The moral for parents and coaches is 'talk to your kids' to get the bottom of what is going on in their lives. 'Right' and 'Wrong' are taught at an early age. And 'apathy','remote parenting' or homes broken by divorce, are no excuses.

This incident wasn't even isolated, he bullied that poor kid for years. A lapse of judgment for a kid is expected, but a years-long dedication to bullying a handicap kid points to some much deeper issues (brain/parenting).

 

[Coaches Coroner]

What I remember is that the Magistrate, you know the civil servant that he actually talked to several times found him remorseful. Now the judge did not and certainly it is something if he is bombing in interviews is going to be a problem for him. It was horrible. I am not defending that. But I think I read a different article that was more his families side and the appointed civil servant saying they believed he did learn from this. Perhaps he is not very good at talking about it and it takes several sessions for you to understand the impact it had on him.

I guess it depends what he's remorseful for. From the statements I've seen of his, he sounds remorseful for the fact that his actions lead to problems for his parents and for his sister at school...maybe I've missed it but I haven't seen any quotes from him or about him being remorseful for what he inflicted on the disabled child.

 

[KapG]

Light bullying that happens all the time is a completely different to targeting a disable kid with some absolute brutal attacks. Making someone eat a piss drenched push pop is damn disgusting.

And there’s actually clowns in here defending this psychopath because “he was only 14”. This is just the shit he got caught doing too. Who knows what other despicable behaviour he was up to. Not like it’s just some isolated incident either. Buddy was tormenting this poor child for a long time if all reports are to be believed. f*** Miller

 

[IncredibleMarner]

And there’s actually clowns in here defending this psychopath because “he was only 14”. This is just the shit he got caught doing too. Who knows what other despicable behaviour he was up to. Not like it’s just some isolated incident either. Buddy was tormenting this poor child for a long time if all reports are to be believed. f*** Miller

I fully agree.
Kids at 14years should be able to know 'right from wrong' - independent of their brain development. It is not as if 0 responsibility until 25y old, and then all of a sudden they're 'adults' and fully accountable - it's a gradual development and if at 14y old the kid doesn't know such behaviour is wrong, then either his parents are at fault and/or he has a serious condition. In any case, none of that matters - since the rights of the victim should always come first. The excuse culture for bad kids is appalling, and seriously harms society in general. Based on this behaviour, I wouldnt want this kid on my team - however, looking at Dubas' love affair for Keefe (another bad apple when he was an adolescent) I'm afraid Leafs could be a team to 'give this kid a second chance'.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Yeah guys what's the big deal, he just fed a developmentally disabled kid a toilet push pop and kicked the shit out of him. We've all been there, amirite?

 

[Mach85]

For a kid to do what Miller did at 14, it's really one of two things (or both): 1) he's a budding psychopath, 2) He's had some horrible things happen to him early in life and is passing along the cycle of abuse. 1) is possible of course, but unlikely. So I'll assume 2).

It's not an excuse, but rather a possible explanation. Which means that he can't be given a free pass but some compassion is in order while he's given a second chance. He got that second chance. If he got help, learned, and grown, then dooming him to pay for what he did for the rest of his life isn't appropriate. However, if the whispers are true and he isn't showing signs of growth in his team interviews, then I'm with y'all on the f*** Miller train lol.

We'll know a bit more come draft day because if he's not drafted or falls like an absolute stone then it likely means the interviews went poorly and teams have major concerns. If he's taken close to where he's projected then the whispers about interviews were probably overblown; he's not an elite talent and a team isn't taking a risk unless they feel good about him.

 

[HabsMD97]

I'm sorry but i'm pretty sure some of the acts he committed go well beyond typical bullying and cross the psychopath territory. If he feels no empathy for the victim and deep regret for his actions than that pretty much confirms it. It's not a characteristic that can be just fixed with counselling.

 

[BB06]

Yeah guys what's the big deal, he just fed a developmentally disabled kid a toilet push pop and kicked the shit out of him. We've all been there, amirite?

Yeah that's honestly when you step outside the realm of Bullying and into psychopathy. That isn't normal at all no matter the age.

 

[member 96824]

He's not a bad kid at 18 if he doesn't want to go on an apology tour years later.

Sure, but that’s also a decision that has consequences..one of those being that he might not get a job to publicly represent one of the 31 organizations that are asking for clarification about the incident.

It’s a fine decision for him to make, but that’s the reality. Doesn’t make anyone a fraud or a hypocrite. Just means that he might not get the job he wants. That’s the real world.

 

[member 96824]

Yeah guys what's the big deal, he just fed a developmentally disabled kid a toilet push pop and kicked the shit out of him. We've all been there, amirite?

14 for some of these posters was way way different than it was for me holy shit.