Speculation: Raymond Seider Contract Speculation

[kook10]

This was an interesting way to avoid answering the question.

the mess of having not being competitive as a result of a deficit of residual assets from the Holland era, due to overpaying exactly as you suggest. just because we have cap room doesn't mean you have to overpay anyone just because you like them. (but you knew that and were just playing obtuse)

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

the mess of having not being competitive as a result of a deficit of residual assets from the Holland era, due to overpaying exactly as you suggest. just because we have cap room doesn't mean you have to overpay anyone just because you like them. (but you knew that and were just playing obtuse)

I'm confused... You highlighted the part about how we don't need cap space and replied "We need all we can get". But now you're bitching about how we've used our cap space, as if we shouldn't have signed UFAs.

It's not that I'm playing obtuse. It's that your argument is all over the place because you kinda just sound like you enjoy pissing and moaning.

But feel free to tell me what big name FAs we have to sign in the next two years, outside Edvinsson. I'd love to know where the statement you initially highlighted was false.

 

[kook10]

I'm confused... You highlighted the part about how we don't need cap space and replied "We need all we can get". But now you're bitching about how we've used our cap space, as if we shouldn't have signed UFAs.

It's not that I'm playing obtuse. It's that your argument is all over the place because you kinda just sound like you enjoy pissing and moaning.

Well you got one part right.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Well you got one part right.

Weird that you actually edited out my asking you to name which big name FAs we need to sign over the next two years.

As I was saying about you just being all over the place because you want to piss and moan...

 

[lilidk]

poorly managing assets is what got us in this mess.

Nothing is unfixable

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

2025 FAs: Kane, Fischer, Motte, Maatta, Husso, Lyon
2026 FAs: Tarasenko, Veleno, Edvinsson, Chiarot, Holl, Gustafsson, Talbot

Still waiting to hear from @kook10 how we need all the cap we can get over the next two years that we shouldn't sign Seider to a contract that'll be a steal in the last 5-6 years.

I don't anticipate an answer. He's been dodging that question from the jump.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

2025 FAs: Kane, Fischer, Motte, Maatta, Husso, Lyon
2026 FAs: Tarasenko, Veleno, Edvinsson, Chiarot, Holl, Gustafsson, Talbot

Still waiting to hear from @kook10 how we need all the cap we can get over the next two years that we shouldn't sign Seider to a contract that'll be a steal in the last 5-6 years.

I don't anticipate an answer. He's been dodging that question from the jump.

He's jsut saying that you don't run to pay Seider 9.5M if he'll sign for 8.5M.

There is no tangible gain to signing him TODAY vs. two weeks from now. If signing him today costs 9.5M AAV and a couple weeks when he feels the pinch it's 8.5M AAV, I'd wait the two weeks and save a million a year.

Now, we don't have to penny pinch with Seider and Raymond and if it does take 8.5M AAV at the end of the day, we should sign it. But I agree with not rushing to sign it. Also, if Brock Faber is getting 8.5, Sanderson 8, and Cale Makar is sitting at 9... why in the blue hell should Seider get 9.5?

RFA deals are based off of comparables if your GM is doing his job.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

He's jsut saying that you don't run to pay Seider 9.5M if he'll sign for 8.5M.

There is no tangible gain to signing him TODAY vs. two weeks from now. If signing him today costs 9.5M AAV and a couple weeks when he feels the pinch it's 8.5M AAV, I'd wait the two weeks and save a million a year.

Now, we don't have to penny pinch with Seider and Raymond and if it does take 8.5M AAV at the end of the day, we should sign it. But I agree with not rushing to sign it. Also, if Brock Faber is getting 8.5, Sanderson 8, and Cale Makar is sitting at 9... why in the blue hell should Seider get 9.5?

RFA deals are based off of comparables if your GM is doing his job.

He's not though... Of course you sign him for less if he's willing.

He's in here bitching about how we need all the cap space we can get, presumably for Summer UFAs, but then turned around and bitched about how we've overpaid summer UFAs lol.

As for your comparables, they're not really comparable. Faber and Sanderson both had only one season under their belt when signed. Makar was only a 6 year deal signed 3 years ago. (And it was pre-Norris)

Best comparable for Seider would probably be Heiskanen.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Weird that you actually edited out my asking you to name which big name FAs we need to sign over the next two years.

As I was saying about you just being all over the place because you want to piss and moan...

And it's less about big names we need to add and more the historical lesson that a bunch of small papercuts at 500k-1M too much per year hurt the bejesus out of building your roster. No, we don't have any ginormous contracts coming up. But we are going to want to start pushing for the playoffs and the Cup soon.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

And it's less about big names we need to add and more the historical lesson that a bunch of small papercuts at 500k-1M too much per year hurt the bejesus out of building your roster. No, we don't have any ginormous contracts coming up. But we are going to want to start pushing for the playoffs and the Cup soon.

I edited to address your comparables while you were replying, sorry.

I do agree that you don't want to set a precedent of overpaying guys, but $9.5M for Seider isn't an overpayment. If you can get him for less, of course you do it. But I'm not gonna shed a tear if he were signed to that.

 

[FlyguyOX]

He's jsut saying that you don't run to pay Seider 9.5M if he'll sign for 8.5M.

There is no tangible gain to signing him TODAY vs. two weeks from now. If signing him today costs 9.5M AAV and a couple weeks when he feels the pinch it's 8.5M AAV, I'd wait the two weeks and save a million a year.

Now, we don't have to penny pinch with Seider and Raymond and if it does take 8.5M AAV at the end of the day, we should sign it. But I agree with not rushing to sign it. Also, if Brock Faber is getting 8.5, Sanderson 8, and Cale Makar is sitting at 9... why in the blue hell should Seider get 9.5?

RFA deals are based off of comparables if your GM is doing his job.

It's based on % of cap and term. Makar signed for less term, and those others if you go by percent of cap likely put Seider at 9+

 

[Pengu]

The problem is that there isn't enough cap space to sign those 2 to long term deals and Berggren without moving players.
All cause of the horrendous UFA signings in Holl. Copp, Chiarot etc.
Those 3 costs around 18 million as there is no way you can argue Seider lower than 8.5 after the faber signing and no way you can argue Raymond lower than 8 after the Jarvis signing.

And you do not want to piss off your cornerstone players of the future. Boston did that with Swayman which isn't working out great.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

It's based on % of cap and term. Makar signed for less term, and those others if you go by percent of cap likely put Seider at 9+

Errr first half right, second half not.

Faber was signed under the $88M cap, so his $8.5M cap hit is presently... $8.5M. Sanderson was last year, but he inflates to just under $8.5M.

Where the comparison falls apart is that Seider has been a top pairing D for 3 years now, and Sanderson/Faber both have one season under their belts. Yes, their potential was elite and they were living up to it, but three years as a top guy gives you more bargaining power and confidence than one.

 

[jkutswings]

the mess of having not being competitive as a result of a deficit of residual assets from the Holland era, due to overpaying exactly as you suggest. just because we have cap room doesn't mean you have to overpay anyone just because you like them. (but you knew that and were just playing obtuse)

The Wings current deficit on the ice is primarily a function of their previous core aging out and the roster naturally turning to crap for lack of talent.

I completely agree that 1) lots of small overpayments is a bad strategy, and 2) that they tried to hold on to the former playoff streak for too long with mediocre additions (which, in turn, made the eventual rebuild harder and take longer).

But even if Yzerman would not have had to burn it down for a few years financially to get rid of the Abdelkaders of the world, it's not like the Wings had oodles of tantalizing prospects just waiting to fill the void. They still had to acquire enough good kids to build it back up WITH, and developing them takes time whether you have cap space or not.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

The problem is that there isn't enough cap space to sign those 2 to long term deals and Berggren without moving players.
All cause of the horrendous UFA signings in Holl. Copp, Chiarot etc.
Those 3 costs around 18 million as there is no way you can argue Seider lower than 8.5 after the faber signing and no way you can argue Raymond lower than 8 after the Jarvis signing.

And you do not want to piss off your cornerstone players of the future. Boston did that with Swayman which isn't working out great.

Judging by the onslaught of goalie signings and the fact that they're comfortable just sitting on $17M in cap, I wouldn't be surprised if they're already aware of and plan to be LTIRing Husso's $4.75M.

I'm not predicting that, I'm just saying it's fishy that they signed Talbot and Campbell with Lyon and Husso already under contract.

 

[Euro Twins]

Judging by the onslaught of goalie signings and the fact that they're comfortable just sitting on $17M in cap, I wouldn't be surprised if they're already aware of and plan to be LTIRing Husso's $4.75M.

I'm not predicting that, I'm just saying it's fishy that they signed Talbot and Campbell with Lyon and Husso already under contract.

Husso spent most of the year injured and played poorly. Lyon proved he can't handle the workload. Campbell was insurance for the AHL. Steve's just hedging his bets

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Husso spent most of the year injured and played poorly. Lyon proved he can't handle the workload. Campbell was insurance for the AHL. Steve's just hedging his bets

It's four NHL goalies on NHL contracts... Even sending Campbell down (Which is going to happen) leaves us at three and Yzerman indicated that he doesn't plan on carrying three in the NHL again.

 

[RRhoads]

Yzerman indicated that he doesn't plan on carrying three in the NHL again.

I think he indicated that he would. He is not sending Talbot, Husso, or Lyon down.

 

[norrisnick]

I think he indicated that he would. He is not sending Talbot, Husso, or Lyon down.

Why not?

 

[Oddbob]

I think he indicated that he would. He is not sending Talbot, Husso, or Lyon down.

He said he doesn't want to carry 3 again, because it messes with the goalies too much with regards to them staying in rhythm. The goalies also don't like it either.

 

[lilidk]

Why not?

Cossa should be GR top goalie

 

[norrisnick]

Cossa should be GR top goalie

And why can't he?

There is an obligation to pay Husso. There is no obligation to play him.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Ok now that we're into September, a serious question.

What date should we actually start to worry if they're not signed? When is camp and whatnot?

 

[Euro Twins]

Ok now that we're into September, a serious question.

What date should we actually start to worry if they're not signed? When is camp and whatnot?

Training camp for the wings starts sep 19. Pre season starts sep 21, but we don't play our first game until sep 25

 

[odin1981]

The problem is that there isn't enough cap space to sign those 2 to long term deals and Berggren without moving players.
All cause of the horrendous UFA signings in Holl. Copp, Chiarot etc.
Those 3 costs around 18 million as there is no way you can argue Seider lower than 8.5 after the faber signing and no way you can argue Raymond lower than 8 after the Jarvis signing.

And you do not want to piss off your cornerstone players of the future. Boston did that with Swayman which isn't working out great.

They already qualified berggren for 925k.