Speculation: Raymond Seider Contract Speculation

[Retire91]

Seider for sure is like 8ishX8ish
probably Raymond a little less, no?

 

[saska sault]

Faber had a Seider type season with much better help on defense. Seider had the toughest competition I've heard. I am guilty of not looking at advanced stats and such, so I'll trust what others have stated. 200 hits, 200 blocks and had Ghost running the PP so his point totals obviously reflect he has other responsibilities. I'd take Mo 10 out of 10 times. Minnesota fans says if Faber stays exactly how he is (he's 21 so he will get better), the contract is a steal... Mo is only going to improve. Big , physical, mobile 50+ points for the next decade. Yes please.

 

[kook10]

Faber had a Seider type season with much better help on defense. Seider had the toughest competition I've heard. I am guilty of not looking at advanced stats and such, so I'll trust what others have stated. 200 hits, 200 blocks and had Ghost running the PP so his point totals obviously reflect he has other responsibilities. I'd take Mo 10 out of 10 times. Minnesota fans says if Faber stays exactly how he is (he's 21 so he will get better), the contract is a steal... Mo is only going to improve. Big , physical, mobile 50+ points for the next decade. Yes please.

That is the roll of the dice.

Blocks truly are great, but I don't see hits translating to much of anything these days, nor do I see an overall benefit in having a #1 D applying themselves that way. He can't be a Pronger in the modern game. A lot of the other stats need to be qualified or excused deployment, and there were plenty of times where the eye test was ugly. The big qualities that I favor (in this case specifically favor in Faber) that people don't tend to use when describing Mo are "smart", "even headed", and "responsible". The latter can be trained and improved, but the former two are tough ones. Of course I hope for the best, support the team and would love to be proven wrong but betting the farm on Mo gives me some dyspepsia.

 

[minimal]

The big qualities that I favor (in this case specifically favor in Faber) that people don't tend to use when describing Mo are "smart", "even headed", and "responsible".

I really don't know what you're talking about, I would easily describe Seider that way.

 

[Henkka]

Think Seider value table goes like this:

1-year, 5.3M
2-year, 5.5M
3-year, 5.9M
4-year, 6.2M
5-year, 7.0M
6-year, 7.6M
7-year, 8.1M
8-year, 8.5M

 

[kook10]

I really don't know what you're talking about, I would easily describe Seider that way.

Well, I guess we differ in that. I see him occasionally get steamed, get caught up ice, chase in the corners, blind pass under pressure, hang on to the puck too long, opt for hits over pucks, and try to make difficult plays over safe ones.

[obviously this only a list of complaints - I do see positives as well. I also don't rule out that there may be something about his play that bugs me and find fault in an equal and opposite way that others seem to find only praise. maybe I just want to pour cold water on everyone who treats him as some sacred cow]

 

[Redwing66]

Think Seider value table goes like this:

1-year, 5.3M
2-year, 5.5M
3-year, 5.9M
4-year, 6.2M
5-year, 7.0M
6-year, 7.6M
7-year, 8.1M
8-year, 8.5M

Bet his contract is 8 X8.25

 

[RRhoads]

Bet his contract is 8 X8.25

That would be a steal

 

[norrisnick]

I don't think that is a bad contract. Maybe I am in the minority, but I would swap Faber for Seider straight up in a heartbeat. Very smart player and solid on both ends with no "ifs" or "buts" to explain his play.

The actual f....

 

[Redwing66]

Guessing

Raymond's contract is 8 X8M
Seider is 8 X8.25M
Berggren 1yr $1M

 

[Oddbob]

That is the roll of the dice.

Blocks truly are great, but I don't see hits translating to much of anything these days, nor do I see an overall benefit in having a #1 D applying themselves that way. He can't be a Pronger in the modern game. A lot of the other stats need to be qualified or excused deployment, and there were plenty of times where the eye test was ugly. The big qualities that I favor (in this case specifically favor in Faber) that people don't tend to use when describing Mo are "smart", "even headed", and "responsible". The latter can be trained and improved, but the former two are tough ones. Of course I hope for the best, support the team and would love to be proven wrong but betting the farm on Mo gives me some dyspepsia.

What makes Faber a sure thing? Minnesota is a much better team than us up front and on the blueline. He had less points as a rookie than Mo had in his rookie season with a lot more pp and ice time in general. Also not sure, but why is Faber better defensively? Also what question marks about Seider. Faber wouldn't have played 24 minutes a night with Lalonde as coach, and you know this, because Seider is miles better than anyone else on our team and he still only played 22:22 last season. Faber is also far less physical than Mo.

Faber's first season:

2023-24	21	MIN	NHL	82	8	39	47	-1	26	5	3	0	1	26	13	0	136	5.9	293	2048	24:58	0	0		150	65	15	35	AR-1,Byng-49,Calder-2

Seider's first season: (Remember train wreck team)

2021-22	20	DET	NHL	82	7	43	50	-9	34	5	2	0	4	22	19	2	187	3.7	355	1889	23:02	0	0		161	151	41	48	AR-1,AS-16,Calder-1

Pretty much everything, except +/- is in Mo's favour. Factor in much worse goaltending and team in general and I take Mo's rookie season everyday.

You are also just choosing recency bias of Faber being better this last season, but again, Faber plays with Kaprizov on the pp1 unit and Mo plays with Larkin, only sometimes on pp1 unit. No offence to Larkin, but offensively Kaprizov is much better and thus would make an offensive defender have an easier time doing well offensively.

Switch the players and we are maybe slightly better offensively, but worse defensively and by a lot physically.

This isn't running Faber down, as I think he is already really good and will likely be much better, but saying you would pick him hands down seems silly to me.

Edit- How is Mo not smart and even headed and responsible?

 

[Oddbob]

Well, I guess we differ in that. I see him occasionally get steamed, get caught up ice, chase in the corners, blind pass under pressure, hang on to the puck too long, opt for hits over pucks, and try to make difficult plays over safe ones.

[obviously this only a list of complaints - I do see positives as well. I also don't rule out that there may be something about his play that bugs me and find fault in an equal and opposite way that others seem to find only praise. maybe I just want to pour cold water on everyone who treats him as some sacred cow]

You watch Seider way more often. If you watch any player a lot, you will see plenty of bad plays, even with the very best players of all time. You think Faber doesn't do dumb stuff sometimes? Even in some of the games I have seen watching Makar, he will make a play that looks nothing like the all star player he is would make.

 

[Oddbob]

That would be a steal

People seem to be against it, but Detroit is one that seems to respect or hold to the captain's contract. So I agree that Seider will come in at less cap or no higher than Larkin. Even with Pav and Henrik there was a rule or whatever you want to call it, that no one could get more than Nick Lidstrom when he was here, at least that has been inferred in the past.

I think Mo comes in at 8X8-8.5 and Ray at 8X7.5-8.5. I think Ray will come in closer to Debrincat in cap hit.

 

[Ulysses31]

guessing seider will b 8.7x8 n raymond 8.35×8 if they go max term. bridge deals b harder to predict.

 

[DoMakc]

Think Seider value table goes like this:

1-year, 5.3M
2-year, 5.5M
3-year, 5.9M
4-year, 6.2M
5-year, 7.0M
6-year, 7.6M
7-year, 8.1M
8-year, 8.5M

You should stop smoking whatever you are smoking, Seider is not signing 8x6.75

 

[Henkka]

You should stop smoking whatever you are smoking, Seider is not signing 8x6.75

Think you need to invest on eye-glasses.

 

[The Zermanator]

You should stop smoking whatever you are smoking, Seider is not signing 8x6.75

I'm assuming you interpreted that as meaning those are the amounts he would be paid in each year on an 8yr deal. @Henkka is saying on a 1yr deal he would have an AAV of 5.3M, on a 2yr deal it would be 5.5M, 3yr deal at 5.9M, all the way to an 8yr deal valued at an AAV of 8.5M.

Those numbers seem fairly realistic to me, maybe a tad low. Seider gets paid more than Faber on an 8yr deal IMO. At least 9M, maybe 9.5M.

 

[odin1981]

I'm assuming you interpreted that as meaning those are the amounts he would be paid in each year on an 8yr deal. @Henkka is saying on a 1yr deal he would have an AAV of 5.3M, on a 2yr deal it would be 5.5M, 3yr deal at 5.9M, all the way to an 8yr deal valued at an AAV of 8.5M.

Those numbers seem fairly realistic to me, maybe a tad low. Seider gets paid more than Faber on an 8yr deal IMO. At least 9M, maybe 9.5M.

Yeah, Faber is not a comparable. He has played 1 year, Seider has 3 year's of experience.

 

[Henkka]

Yeah, Faber is not a comparable. He has played 1 year, Seider has 3 year's of experience.

Also Faber deal will start year after. Seider contract will start instantly.

When Faber deal is count against the 92M expected cap, the comparable for this offseason is:

88M/92M x 8.5M = 8.13M

So anything 8.2M+ for Seider would be mathematically more than that Faber deal.

 

[lilidk]

 

[odin1981]

The remaining cap space is why I think Steve will want to bridge Raymond. It could even be a short 3 year type bridge deal. If no moves are made.

 

[Winger98]

Oh ffs...Seider and Raymond are expected to take up just under $17m if signed to long term deals. We just happen to have around $17m in cap space. I would take a wild guess that Yzerman knows pretty well how much they are going to cost and it didn't cost us a thing in free agency to not sign them yet.

 

[odin1981]

Oh ffs...Seider and Raymond are expected to take up just under $17m if signed to long term deals. We just happen to have around $17m in cap space. I would take a wild guess that Yzerman knows pretty well how much they are going to cost and it didn't cost us a thing in free agency to not sign thethingies.

If we get a second buyout window, Husso would be the shortest penalty on our cap. Chia I don't think is in danger because he stopped thinking he was a puck mover and was fine on the second pairing. If Holl is bought out I would hope we could wait till next year. Copp would be way too long of a penalty year's wise so hopefully they don't have to make a decision for either of them till next year if at all possible.

 

[Henkka]

That second buyout window makes only 4M+ contract possible for a buyout. So Holl isn't an option. Husso could be.

But that rest of the 17.6 million cap space is pretty easy mathematics. 8.5M + 8M + 1M for Seider, Raymond, BErggren.

 

[Ulysses31]

think SY could get lil extra cap by burying holl or husso in minors