Value of: Raymond Offer sheet

[lipstickjunkie]

I do wonder if Utah should just bite the bullet and do it. After all their pickups this summer, they're on the verge of being a bubble team so unlikely to be in a position to draft a Raymond-level talent again. Add in that they lack a bona fide bookend to Keller and Cooley on L1, and it makes sense to me:

Raymond-Cooley-Keller
Crouse-Kerfoot-Schmaltz
Maccelli-Hayton-Doan
McBain-Bjugstad-Guenther
Stenlund, O'Brien

Sergachev-Marino
Valimaki-Durzi
Cole-Kesselring
Soderstrom

Vejmelka
Ingram

That's an incredibly deep team with no real weaknesses outside of missing a clear #1 D. Even still I expect them to be a competitive club all year long, and could maybe turn some of their prospect capital and NHL depth into that player before the season is over.

Any team with Kerfoot as the 2C can not and will not be taken seriously.

 

[bert]

I’d trade Caufield for Raymond

No way?! Really?!

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Matched.

Awesome.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

How do you not get "If the offer sheet isn't absolutely ridiculous, it's not going to work"?

If it's something that you can stomach, it's something Detroit can stomach.

And hell no, Moritz Seider does not deserve 10Mx8 currently. He just doesn't. There is nothing to support that when players of his ilk have signed to 8x8 or 8x8.5. And the full freight UFA 1D contracts currently have been 9.5M.

There is no planet on which Mortiz Seider is making $10M in 2025 unless some team goes absolutely insane and offersheets him.

Gonna go ahead and guess "Players of his ilk" are Sanderson and Faber based on the numbers you brought up... Both were signed with one year under their belt. Seider has three, all as a #1D. Like it or not, that gives him more bargaining power.

Seider's best contract comparable is Heiskanen. That inflates to 8 x $9.1M.

 

[Pavels Dog]

What I don't understand is how Yzerman can play hardball with his young cornerstone players while also being the GM to overpay veterans and mid tier roster players. Makes no sense to me.

Who is overpaid? Copp, Chiarot, Holl, Husso? I guarantee you can find 3-5 questionable cap hits on every single team.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Who is overpaid? Copp, Chiarot, Holl, Husso? I guarantee you can find 3-5 questionable cap hits on every single team.

Wings paid 3.4 to a guy who was a healthy scratch all year.

Steve's fascination with signing absolutely mediocre UFA to fill important roles has been dumbfounding.

But don't worry, the 1st that's just outside the top 10 they draft this year will hopefully be a middle six player in 3 or 4 years.

 

[Hobnobs]

Wings paid 3.4 to a guy who was a healthy scratch all year.

Steve's fascination with signing absolutely mediocre UFA to fill important roles has been dumbfounding.

But don't worry, the 1st that's just outside the top 10 they draft this year will hopefully be a middle six player in 3 or 4 years.

This post comes off as some sort of salty envy rather than the burn you think it is.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Wings paid 3.4 to a guy who was a healthy scratch all year.

Steve's fascination with signing absolutely mediocre UFA to fill important roles has been dumbfounding.

But don't worry, the 1st that's just outside the top 10 they draft this year will hopefully be a middle six player in 3 or 4 years.

Again, that's 1 contract. Can you name a team that doesn't have a single bad contract?

Not sure what your comment about the draft has to do with anything.

 

[FlyguyOX]

This post comes off as some sort of salty envy rather than the burn you think it is.

I like the wings and watch them often. Just frustrated how some of their top talent is being wasted.

 

[deca guard]

Wings paid 3.4 to a guy who was a healthy scratch all year.

Steve's fascination with signing absolutely mediocre UFA to fill important roles has been dumbfounding.

But don't worry, the 1st that's just outside the top 10 they draft this year will hopefully be a middle six player in 3 or 4 years.

those signings were culture building players in the cases of copp n chariot , company men that play hard working hockey . and what else was he supposed to do with that cap space not sign anybody ? he improved team n built culture to lead the kids during a rebuild era where he did not want to commit long term cap space to older ufa whom wouldnt be of great help when the young prospects are ready to challenge . instead he has the future cap to pay his developing players as they mature , and sign ufa closer to prime than any ufa he would have already signed . foolish business criticizing one of the best gm to hit nhl in decades , did you not notice what he did in tbay or his drafting in detroit ?

 

[mattyboy]

Who is overpaid? Copp, Chiarot, Holl, Husso? I guarantee you can find 3-5 questionable cap hits on every single team.

Yes but the real question is what’s the percentage of those bad contracts against the current cap.
And those 4 take up 21% of the maximum allowed cap. C’est pas bon.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Yes but the real question is what’s the percentage of those bad contracts against the current cap.
And those 4 take up 21% of the maximum allowed cap. C’est pas bon.

And fair deals for them would take up what? 15%?

 

[FlyguyOX]

those signings were culture building players in the cases of copp n chariot , company men that play hard working hockey . and what else was he supposed to do with that cap space not sign anybody ? he improved team n built culture to lead the kids during a rebuild era where he did not want to commit long term cap space to older ufa whom wouldnt be of great help when the young prospects are ready to challenge . instead he has the future cap to pay his developing players as they mature , and sign ufa closer to prime than any ufa he would have already signed . foolish business criticizing one of the best gm to hit nhl in decades , did you not notice what he did in tbay or his drafting in detroit ?

Chiarot has been a disaster, especially for Seider.

 

[deca guard]

Chiarot has been a disaster, especially for Seider.

winning/losing doesnt matter now in a rebuild . what matters is chariot plays a hustling n rugged game establishing the future red wing style . his ruggedness n size takes a burden off kid seider to do that job too . not to mention redwings have not really wanted to make playoffs these past few seasons , though yzerman wont say that , because theyd rather get a few higher draft pix before they step out of the lotto zone long term . this got them kasper/dannyson/mbn instead of later pix , this could turn out excellent . chariot was an 'invisible tank' move that also baby sat kid seider

 

[FlyguyOX]

winning/losing doesnt matter now in a rebuild . what matters is chariot plays a hustling n rugged game establishing the future red wing style . his ruggedness n size takes a burden off kid seider to do that job too . not to mention redwings have not really wanted to make playoffs these past few seasons , though yzerman wont say that , because theyd rather get a few higher draft pix before they step out of the lotto zone long term . this got them kasper/dannyson/mbn instead of later pix , this could turn out excellent . chariot was an 'invisible tank' move that also baby sat kid seider

Chiarot's completely inept and mindlessly aggressive game was horrible for Seider, and will be again if they're paired together again.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Chiarot was fine last season.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Chiarot was fine last season.

He was better, which wasn't a high bar to clear

 

[Hobnobs]

Yes but the real question is what’s the percentage of those bad contracts against the current cap.
And those 4 take up 21% of the maximum allowed cap. C’est pas bon.

So? Holl and Chiarot aren't exactly signed long term. Do you think Wings are in som kind of cap trouble?

 

[RedHawkDown]

Wings paid 3.4 to a guy who was a healthy scratch all year.

Steve's fascination with signing absolutely mediocre UFA to fill important roles has been dumbfounding.

But don't worry, the 1st that's just outside the top 10 they draft this year will hopefully be a middle six player in 3 or 4 years.

As a wings fan I completely agree with you, but 90%’of people on our board believe Yzerman can do no wrong so you’ll only get hate here

I think Yzerman is a good gm but bad moves deserve criticism and he has had plenty of very bad contracts handed out to D-tier UFAs

 

[SirloinUB]

Wings paid 3.4 to a guy who was a healthy scratch all year.

Steve's fascination with signing absolutely mediocre UFA to fill important roles has been dumbfounding.

But don't worry, the 1st that's just outside the top 10 they draft this year will hopefully be a middle six player in 3 or 4 years.

This is the first time I've seen the 6th/7th dman spot described as an "important role"

 

[banks]

This thread took a turn.

Back to a Raymond offer sheet, the number would have to be stupid for Detroit to let him go. That's the only way any offer sheet works, it has to be an obvious overpayment.

If the offer sheet is fair, then all you did was help out the other team by negotiating a fair deal for them to easily match.

 

[FlyguyOX]

This is the first time I've seen the 6th/7th dman spot described as an "important role"

Wasn't intended to be a 6/7 with that cap hit. If he was, that's even worse. I was talking about all the UFA signed though, not just him.

This thread took a turn.

Back to a Raymond offer sheet, the number would have to be stupid for Detroit to let him go. That's the only way any offer sheet works, it has to be an obvious overpayment.

If the offer sheet is fair, then all you did was help out the other team by negotiating a fair deal for them to easily match.

Yeah with Berggren signed now I think Mo gets 8.7 like Larkin and Raymond gets 8 or just slightly north.

 

[RedHawkDown]

This is the first time I've seen the 6th/7th dman spot described as an "important role"

No reason to be disingenuous. He’s signed Copp, Chiarot, Compher, etc all to contracts above 4M/year. Chiarot played the top pairing with Seider, Copp/Compher rotated as our 2Cs, these are improtant roles.

These are contracts we would have raked holland over the coals for.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Wings paid 3.4 to a guy who was a healthy scratch all year.

Steve's fascination with signing absolutely mediocre UFA to fill important roles has been dumbfounding.

But don't worry, the 1st that's just outside the top 10 they draft this year will hopefully be a middle six player in 3 or 4 years.

You can rip the Holl signing rather easy without lying about it. He played 38 games. That's not great. It's also a lot more significant than "Healthy scratch all year".

Exaggerating when you didn't really need to just makes you sound bitter.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Because that is how the CBA operates. And the hardball he';s playing with young cornerstone players will see them get paid around double any contract he gave to the veterans.

You have leverage with RFAs because of the way that the collective bargaining agreement is written. You don't have that with UFAs.

This isn't how many team in a rebuilding/non-playoff mix have been operating, least not recently. We've seen teams quick to lock up young cornerstone types to long term deals (completely avoiding bridge deals) that they are expected to grow into. Teams contending and firmly entrenched in the playoff mix have been the ones to bridge young players due to the cap implications. Usually to their future detriment. Oilers found themselves in this situation with Nurse (brutal) and now are going to repeat it with Bouchard. Least Bouchard will be expected to earn the contract as Raymond/Seider would. Everyone knows these are star players.

We hardly see any teams playing hardball with their franchise guys. Especially not teams without cap space issues which again are usually the teams in a win now mode.

If they sign long-term. None of this waiting till camp will matter. If they decide they won't commit long-term or one decides they want out this will be brutal player mis-management.