Rasmus Ristolainen: The $5M, 0 percentile defenseman

[FlyersFanSinceBirth]

Another one to the ignore pile

Apparently my response was considered flaming, even though I critiqued your opinion and not you as a person. So I will ask in a more respectful manner..... When you hit ignore does that make it so that I will no longer see your opinions? Or do I have to hit ignore as well to save me from that? Thanks in advance!

 

[kudymen]

Apparently my response was considered flaming, even though I critiqued your opinion and not you as a person. So I will ask in a more respectful manner..... When you hit ignore does that make it so that I will no longer see your opinions? Or do I have to hit ignore as well to save me from that? Thanks in advance!

I am going to go out on a limb and say that when your deleted comment included expressions like "I wont see you spouting stupid shit" (it did), then this critique was flaming, yes

 

[FlyersFanSinceBirth]

I am going to go out on a limb and say that when your deleted comment included expressions like "I wont see you spouting stupid shit" (it did), then this critique was flaming, yes

I was referencing what he/she said. I made no comment on him/her as a person.

 

[kudymen]

I was referencing what he/she said. I made no comment on him/her as a person.

Seems like this "defense" did not hold up against the site rules.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I never said it was a strength. All I said was that he was better defensively than Gostisbehere. I know it's a very low bar, but Ristolainen does clear it.

He actually doesn't. He's been worse than Hagg

 

[Curufinwe]

AV happens. FULLSTOP

That doesn't explain why he looked so promising in 19-20.

 

[Curufinwe]

Risto is worse than Hagg is the new Niskanen is worse than Gudas.

 

[FlyersFanSinceBirth]

He actually doesn't. He's been worse than Hagg

So Ristolainen is now worse than Robert "wOrSt DeFeNsEmAn In ThE lEaGuE" Hagg?

 

[deadhead]

If you base your opinions on players based on goals expected (for and against) there really is no conversation to be had. xGF and xGA are irrelevant.

They're not irrelevant, but context matters.
Who did they play with, what was their role, to what extent were they sheltered?
There's a reason players like Miller and Montour have much better metrics pre/post Buffalo.
Or why Braun's metrics improved substantially once he was out of San Jose and no longer partners with Vlasic.

 

[flying v 604]

AV happens. FULLSTOP

Ya he did some real head-scratching stuff here in Vancouver as well. He's a coach that can only win with a top tier goalie, otherwise he gets exposed. But the way he favours players here was pretty bad and I mean not just on the ice, there are some stories that are coming out bout that 2010 era team that if true like Kesler banging multiple GF's of players and staff on the team but AV basically covering for him. Seems he makes any situation toxic and still plays favourites?

 

[FlyersFanSinceBirth]

They're not irrelevant, but context matters.
Who did they play with, what was their role, to what extent were they sheltered?
There's a reason players like Miller and Montour have much better metrics pre/post Buffalo.
Or why Braun's metrics improved substantially once he was out of San Jose and no longer partners with Vlasic.

There wasn't any context provided, which made them irrelevant.

 

[deadhead]

Jesus, what happened with Myers? He was considered a future star and untouchable after the bubble, did he completely undo all that this past season?

No. He did regress, bad rookie half season paired with Ghost, good second season paired with Sanheim, then the wheels fell off in the bubble and last season. Which is one reason HCs are wary of playing young players, the "box of chocolates" effect.

I think Myers will rebound in Nashville, on the second pair, with a veteran partner (probably Ekholm). Then fans will go how could we let him go!
Of course, there's a big difference playing well on the second pair with a top veteran and being able to carry the first pair (Ellis).

 

[Beef Invictus]

So Ristolainen is now worse than Robert "wOrSt DeFeNsEmAn In ThE lEaGuE" Hagg?

Not just now. Even before we traded for him. When we were playing Buffalo. I was pointing out that Hagg may be bad, but Risto looked worse.

Then I'd joke that it would be the Maximum Flyers Move to trade for Risto. I wasn't firmly opposed to bringing him in for no reason. I didn't develop these opinions after we traded for him.

 

[FlyersFanSinceBirth]

Not just now. Even before we traded for him. When we were playing Buffalo. I was pointing out that Hagg may be bad, but Risto looked worse.

Then I'd joke that it would be the Maximum Flyers Move to trade for Risto.

It's just funny to me that someone like Hagg can be the consensus worst defenseman in the league, according to this board. But then, as soon as he leaves the team, many start referring to the new defenseman on the team as the worst defenseman in the league.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's just funny to me that someone like Hagg can be the consensus worst defenseman in the league, according to this board. But then, as soon as he leaves the team, many start referring to the new defenseman on the team as the worst defenseman in the league.

In the common lump of trash players on the bottom of the dman pile, Hagg and Risto are both there.

Offensively I take Risto over Hagg. But defensively, Hagg is actually better. And that's what I'm addressing, these claims that defensively he's an upgrade. He is probably one of two players who aren't a defensive upgrade on Hogg. So of course we brought him in.

 

[deadhead]

Ya he did some real head-scratching stuff here in Vancouver as well. He's a coach that can only win with a top tier goalie, otherwise he gets exposed. But the way he favours players here was pretty bad and I mean not just on the ice, there are some stories that are coming out bout that 2010 era team that if true like Kesler banging multiple GF's of players and staff on the team but AV basically covering for him. Seems he makes any situation toxic and still plays favourites?

Hate to break the news, unless you have exceptional talent, all HCs get exposed without a good goaltender.
Teams that made the playoffs last year without good goaltenders:
Minnesota, Talbot, Kahkonen
Washington, Vanecek, Samsonov

You can get by with a good starter and a bad backup, or pair two mediocre guys, but you're screwed if you have a bad starter (b/c the backup wouldn't be the backup if he was any better).

 

[Starat327]

Also defense, which is still a useful attribute for a defenseman.

Except...he isn't actually better than Ghost at defending the zone. He's better at defending the crease, that's literally it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hate to break the news, unless you have exceptional talent, all HCs get exposed without a good goaltender.
Teams that made the playoffs last year without good goaltenders:
Minnesota, Talbot, Kahkonen
Washington, Vanecek, Samsonov

You can get by with a good starter and a bad backup, or pair two mediocre guys, but you're screwed if you have a bad starter (b/c the backup wouldn't be the backup if he was any better).

Most coaches don't run a system that's so bad and lacking in cohesion that it requires HOF goaltending to just be workable at the league-average level that gets you into the playoffs.

When you run a system that bad, then you aren't winning a Cup even with HOF goaltending.

As AV proves. Hell in NY he lost a Finals where he had the better goalie.

 

[rinaldo]

In the common lump of trash players on the bottom of the dman pile, Hagg and Risto are both there.

Offensively I take Risto over Hagg. But defensively, Hagg is actually better. And that's what I'm addressing, these claims that defensively he's an upgrade. He is probably one of two players who aren't a defensive upgrade on Hogg. So of course we brought him in.

NHL Gm's are so dumb. Their player evaluations are so off. Imagine trading a better dman, 1st, and 2nd for a lesser dman. There were GM's lined up for the worst dman in the NHL. Yet a top pairing one has negative value. So odd.

 

[Starat327]

View attachment 468027

Take a guess who these two are

This player is better.

*shown stats that prove otherwise*

I sont agree with those stats.

 

[Beef Invictus]

NHL Gm's are so dumb. Their player evaluations are so off. Imagine trading a better dman, 1st, and 2nd for a lesser dman. There were GM's lined up for the worst dman in the NHL. Yet a top pairing one has negative value. So odd.

You're getting it now.

One of those GMs was probably the guy who thought bringing in Duncan Keith would be a brilliant idea. GMs are not special exceptional unicorn flakes. Most aren't there via merit, but because they had some handy connection and then just stuck around long enough to fall upward.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Risto is worse than Hagg is the new Niskanen is worse than Gudas.

I thought Niskanen was at least as good as Gudas and fully supported bringing him in because he had offensive skills Gudas lacked. Wanna try again?

 

[rinaldo]

You're getting it now.

One of those GMs was probably the guy who thought bringing in Duncan Keith would be a brilliant idea. GMs are not special exceptional unicorn flakes. Most aren't there via merit, but because they had some handy connection and then just stuck around long enough to fall upward.

Who says they are special?

Duncan Keith can still. play. Now that deal was bad just for the fact he only wanted to go to one of a few places. He made out poorly not getting any retention or compensation back.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Who says they are special?

Duncan Keith can still. play. Now that deal was bad just for the fact he only wanted to go to one of a few places. He made out poorly not getting any retention or compensation back.

Lol Keith is a horror show. He made out poorly bringing him in at all. Edmonton immediately got worse. Everything about that move was bad.

But sure, keep thinking these guys can't be wrong and us mere fans can't be right.

 

[Starat327]

Duncan Keith is still good? What year is it? 2017?