Rasmus Ristolainen: The $5M, 0 percentile defenseman

[TCTC]

He has been bad. Sanheim has been bad. That pairing so far sucks just as much as Sanheim-Myers did.

Sanheim needs a player like Braun. So much is obvious at this point. I'm not sure what Ristolainen needs. In theory Sanheim should be the best fit for him. Maybe a Yandle/Risto 3rd pair in a limited role could work.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Sanheim needs a player like Braun. So much is obvious at this point. I'm not sure what Ristolainen needs. In theory Sanheim should be the best fit for him. Maybe a Yandle/Risto 3rd pair in a limited role could work.

Braun would be a better fit for Sanheim, but that’s still a 3rd-pairing caliber defense.

I’m just sick of Sanheim. If you’re going to be that painfully soft, poor defensively, & mistake-prone, you better be a hell of a lot better offensively than he is. It’s embarrassing to watch.

Ristolainen is equally bad in his own zone, but of the two he at least isn’t a complete wuss, which is the only faint praise I can offer thus far.

Zamula might be the best partner for Ristolainen, frankly. At least in theory.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Sanheim needs a player like Braun. So much is obvious at this point. I'm not sure what Ristolainen needs. In theory Sanheim should be the best fit for him. Maybe a Yandle/Risto 3rd pair in a limited role could work.

Ristolainen needs to leave the NHL. There is no player who can pair with him and elevate him. That player doesn't exist.

 

[Appleyard]

Braun would be a better fit for Sanheim, but that’s still a 3rd-pairing caliber defense.

I’m just sick of Sanheim. If you’re going to be that painfully soft, poor defensively, & mistake-prone, you better be a hell of a lot better offensively than he is. It’s embarrassing to watch.

Ristolainen is equally bad in his own zone, but of the two he at least isn’t a complete wuss, which is the only faint praise I can offer thus far.

Zamula might be the best partner for Ristolainen, frankly. At least in theory.

Sanheim and Braun have pretty consistently put up 2nd pairing calibre performances when together... which has been quite a lot.

And, well, Sanheim is ~35th in 5v5 P/60 from Dmen since he entered the league. It is hard to be much more effective than that at 5v5 offensively.

Even if you dislike his play style, it is pretty hard to, by any objective measure, say over his career so far he has not been at worst a decent NHL #3 Dman. He has been a top 90 Dman in NHL without much question really.

So what? Just get rid of a legit top 4 Dman who is better than half the defence and on a fair salary due to a combo of 9 bad games and him not throwing enough hits/60?

There is more to D that hits and netfront play. And Sanheim does most of those other things that contribute to positive defensive outcomes well. Well, until this season he did.


Ristolainen is worse in his own zone. He chases play. He loses men. He finishes hits he should leave well alone as they take him out of position. And alongside that is poor in transition and "meh" in OZ, two things Sanheim is good at.

Sanheim has had a track record of playing well with: Gudas, Niskanen, Provorov and Braun. We KNOW he can be a really good 2nd pairing guy.

Ristolainen? 500 games and he has not had a single season so far where was not below average when compared to his team-mates, on one of the worst teams in the NHL.

I HOPE he can be, but the first 9 games it is the same as it ever was.

Being big and strong in isolation does sweet f*** all in the modern NHL. I love truculence and toughness. But not at the expense of bleeding chances and goals.

Partners for him? McCabe is basically the only one of ~10 regular partners he has ever had where as a duo were "above average" at NHL level in terms of impact.

 

[Starat327]

Ristolainen needs to leave the NHL. There is no player who can pair with him and elevate him. That player doesn't exist.

I'm sorry what qualifies you to make this statement? Do you have a Harvard degree? Did you play tier one or junior hockey? Are you a scout for a professional team? If so which one?

 

[BritainStix]

I'm sorry what qualifies you to make this statement? Do you have a Harvard degree? Did you play tier one or junior hockey? Are you a scout for a professional team? If so which one?

GMs don't make mistakes.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Sanheim and Braun have pretty consistently put up 2nd pairing calibre performances when together... which has been quite a lot.

And, well, Sanheim is ~35th in 5v5 P/60 from Dmen since he entered the league. It is hard to be much more effective than that at 5v5 offensively.

Even if you dislike his play style, it is pretty hard to, by any objective measure, say over his career so far he has not been at worst a decent NHL #3 Dman. He has been a top 90 Dman in NHL without much question really.

So what? Just get rid of a legit top 4 Dman who is better than half the defence and on a fair salary due to a combo of 9 bad games and him not throwing enough hits/60?

There is more to D that hits and netfront play. And Sanheim does most of those other things that contribute to positive defensive outcomes well. Well, until this season he did.


Ristolainen is worse in his own zone. He chases play. He loses men. He finishes hits he should leave well alone as they take him out of position. And alongside that is poor in transition and "meh" in OZ, two things Sanheim is good at.

Sanheim has had a track record of playing well with: Gudas, Niskanen, Provorov and Braun. We KNOW he can be a really good 2nd pairing guy.

Ristolainen? 500 games and he has not had a single season so far where was not below average when compared to his team-mates, on one of the worst teams in the NHL.

I HOPE he can be, but the first 9 games it is the same as it ever was.

Being big and strong in isolation does sweet f*** all in the modern NHL. I love truculence and toughness. But not at the expense of bleeding chances and goals.

Partners for him? McCabe is basically the only one of ~10 regular partners he has ever had where as a duo were "above average" at NHL level in terms of impact.

some guys just hate ANY youth..

all they want are old dogs..

esp. worn out old dogs, they are bester then best

 

[Embiid]

Joni Pitkänen played 30 minutes / game and was a good passer and a very good skater who pinched in quite a bit to help Canes offense, which was not stellar at that time. Risto is (tries to be) a physical shut-down defenseman. It is ridiculously stupid to compare Pitkänen to Ristolainen.

I am not comparing Risto to Canes Pitkanen...I comparing him to how Pitkanen played for the Flyers which was equally dumb as Risto. He became a far better player later with the Canes. Risto I am not so sure will be a far better player with the Flyers as Fletcher and other Risto fans think...

So that was my point. It is not an outlandish comparison if you watched Pitkanen with the Flyers beyond his rookie year where he looked more promising and then with the Canes where he played more within himself and was a regular contributor with harder minutes.

Wasn't trying to insult Finnish sensitivities ...

 

[Audible Velvet]

The size and willingness to use it are nullified by crap skating anyway. So even that aspect of his game is way overblown.

 

[Rebels57]

When Ellis is back, they need to do some soul-searching and realize that Braun is FAR FAR FAR FAR better than Risto and set the pairs accordingly. I'm not going to scratch Risto because it's not realistic, but..

Provorov - Ellis
Sanheim - Braun
Yandle - Risto

Is about as good as we can hope for considering we know those top 6 are locks in AV's eyes.

 

[Rebels57]

That's the only thing he does better than Hagg?

I'd rather have Hagg, the picks, and the cap space back, and I f***ing hated Hagg in O&B.

This follows along the 7 year trend of absolute torture for Flyers fans. Every albatross contract that we couldnt wait to get rid of replaced with a new albatross contract that we cant wait to get rid of.

Every terrible player that is overused for reasons unknown is finally shipped out to much delight only to be replaced by an even worse player.

Oh you hate Scott Gordon as Phantoms coach and can't wait for him to be gone? NOW YOU GET IAN f***ING LAPERRIERE.

We are descending slowly down Dante's rings of hell and the scary part is I don't think we have reached the halfway point yet, let alone the end.

 

[He Is Knocking]

You won't. The only good at this point would be the confirmation that he isn't being re-signed. And even tbay isn't happening because you can't pay that much - even for a third pairing defensemen - and not re-sign him.

The good is that Ghost is in a better place now. That's it.

I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop and it will..... that Risto is re-signed, CF isn't going to pay that much and let him walk, it will look bad. (like his play doesnt make CF look bad)..

Just a brutal move panned by most around the NHL and fans alike, save a few . I'll state this was as bad as any in team sports, at the very least in the conversation.

 

[ybnvs]

When Ellis is back, they need to do some soul-searching and realize that Braun is FAR FAR FAR FAR better than Risto and set the pairs accordingly. I'm not going to scratch Risto because it's not realistic, but..

Provorov - Ellis
Sanheim - Braun
Yandle - Risto

Is about as good as we can hope for considering we know those top 6 are locks in AV's eyes.

Only need one more minor tweak.
Scratch the Iron Man who doesn't play PP1 anymore and is now rendered as an obsolete signing, and insert York.

 

[He Is Knocking]

This follows along the 7 year trend of absolute torture for Flyers fans. Every albatross contract that we couldnt wait to get rid of replaced with a new albatross contract that we cant wait to get rid of.

Every terrible player that is overused for reasons unknown is finally shipped out to much delight only to be replaced an even worse player.

Oh you hate Scott Gordon as Phantoms coach and can't wait for him to be gone? NOW YOU GET IAN f***ING LAPERRIERE.

We are descending slowly down Dante's rings of hell and the scary part is I don't think we have reached the halfway point yet, let alone the end.

No, No No, we are far from the bottom but we are definitely heading there. I feel like we are all standing on the wrong side of a redwood tree and watching Chuck and all in Flyers management cut it down. We know it's going to fall on us, were just waiting and watching.

 

[ybnvs]

This follows along the 7 year trend of absolute torture for Flyers fans. Every albatross contract that we couldnt wait to get rid of replaced with a new albatross contract that we cant wait to get rid of.

Every terrible player that is overused for reasons unknown is finally shipped out to much delight only to be replaced an even worse player.

Oh you hate Scott Gordon as Phantoms coach and can't wait for him to be gone? NOW YOU GET IAN f***ING LAPERRIERE.

We are descending slowly down Dante's rings of hell and the scary part is I don't think we have reached the halfway point yet, let alone the end.

Thankfully G's albatross of a contract comes off the books this year to open up a good chunk of cap space so that we can find a vet or two to overpay in free agency. There will be a lot of average names out there this upcoming off season to overpay! I can't wait!

 

[deadhead]

Sanheim and Braun have pretty consistently put up 2nd pairing calibre performances when together... which has been quite a lot.

And, well, Sanheim is ~35th in 5v5 P/60 from Dmen since he entered the league. It is hard to be much more effective than that at 5v5 offensively.

Even if you dislike his play style, it is pretty hard to, by any objective measure, say over his career so far he has not been at worst a decent NHL #3 Dman. He has been a top 90 Dman in NHL without much question really.

The problem is that's a product of a good 2018-19 season, the last two years he's more like 67th.
In other words, he's regressed offensively, and he's mistake prone in the D-zone.
He needs a defensively oriented veteran to hold his hand, like Gudas or Braun.
I think Risto also needs that defensively oriented veteran to hold his hand, like McCabe.

Putting the two of them together and expecting something much better than Sanheim/Myers was a mistake, they are a bad combo for the same reason Sanheim/Myers was a bad combo. Instead of complementing each other's strengths, they amplify each other's weaknesses.

Braun could carry Sanheim, but I don't think Yandle can carry Risto. Maybe Seeler.
You could put two pairs together that way, and treat both pairs as 2nd/3rd pairs, with similar PTs, but shelter them to the extent possible.

Unfortunately, you don't want to saddle York or Zamula (or Attard or St Ivany as RHDs with Sanheim) with that responsibility. Yes, they're talented, but they're also grossly inexperienced, especially missing a year of PT the last two seasons due to COVID.

 

[Rebels57]

Only need one more minor tweak.
Scratch the Iron Man who doesn't play PP1 anymore and is now rendered as an obsolete signing, and insert York.

I could if I would, but i'm being realistic.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I think we are getting a lesson in team building. Sanheim historically is one of the best play drivers in the league. Ristolainen has been equally as poor. I think we are finding out, avoiding dead weight is more important than finding guys to carry that weight.

 

[Adam Warlock]

They brought Risto in to be a physical defensive dman to compliment Sanheim. He is clearly not that player, despite his physical tools.

Im honestly disappointed in his physical play. I really havent seen that "pain in the ass to play against" side. I could live with his brain farts if he consistently made the opposition pay a price for going to the net, because they are missing that type of player.

Yeo should be working with him everyday to fix this. Ristos focus should be clearing out the front of the net. Hes big and strong enough to do that, he just still thinks hes bobby orr.

 

[Asnito]

Sanheim and Braun have pretty consistently put up 2nd pairing calibre performances when together... which has been quite a lot.

And, well, Sanheim is ~35th in 5v5 P/60 from Dmen since he entered the league. It is hard to be much more effective than that at 5v5 offensively.

Even if you dislike his play style, it is pretty hard to, by any objective measure, say over his career so far he has not been at worst a decent NHL #3 Dman. He has been a top 90 Dman in NHL without much question really.

So what? Just get rid of a legit top 4 Dman who is better than half the defence and on a fair salary due to a combo of 9 bad games and him not throwing enough hits/60?

There is more to D that hits and netfront play. And Sanheim does most of those other things that contribute to positive defensive outcomes well. Well, until this season he did.


Ristolainen is worse in his own zone. He chases play. He loses men. He finishes hits he should leave well alone as they take him out of position. And alongside that is poor in transition and "meh" in OZ, two things Sanheim is good at.

Sanheim has had a track record of playing well with: Gudas, Niskanen, Provorov and Braun. We KNOW he can be a really good 2nd pairing guy.

Ristolainen? 500 games and he has not had a single season so far where was not below average when compared to his team-mates, on one of the worst teams in the NHL.

I HOPE he can be, but the first 9 games it is the same as it ever was.

Being big and strong in isolation does sweet f*** all in the modern NHL. I love truculence and toughness. But not at the expense of bleeding chances and goals.

Partners for him? McCabe is basically the only one of ~10 regular partners he has ever had where as a duo were "above average" at NHL level in terms of impact.

The thing that really boggles my mind is that Sanheim is at his best in the O-zone creating offense. This coaching staff in their infinite wisdom view him as their 5th best offensive D-man giving him no PP time but regular PK duties. Risto getting shifts in OT last night before Sanheim was just comical.

 

[Rebels57]

They brought Risto in to be a physical defensive dman to compliment Sanheim. He is clearly not that player, despite his physical tools.

Im honestly disappointed in his physical play. I really havent seen that "pain in the ass to play against" side. I could live with his brain farts if he consistently made the opposition pay a price for going to the net, because they are missing that type of player.

Yeo should be working with him everyday to fix this. Ristos focus should be clearing out the front of the net. Hes big and strong enough to do that, he just still thinks hes bobby orr.

Yep. He honestly just does nothing well.

 

[deadhead]

The problem wasn't taking a chance on Risto, the problem was overpaying to take that chance.
They're right to start York and Zamula in LHV, York had a slow start and was uneven in camp, Zamula is just getting healthy.
They're 20 and 21 and lost PT to COVID, rushing them will neither make the team better or help their development.
I'd rather err on the side of caution, b/c both could be in the top 4 next year.

 

[Asnito]

When Ellis is back, they need to do some soul-searching and realize that Braun is FAR FAR FAR FAR better than Risto and set the pairs accordingly. I'm not going to scratch Risto because it's not realistic, but..

Provorov - Ellis
Sanheim - Braun
Yandle - Risto

Is about as good as we can hope for considering we know those top 6 are locks in AV's eyes.

Seeing how they kept putting the third pair out with the 4th line last night that pairing would be a guaranteed goal against every game.

 

[Embiid]

The problem wasn't taking a chance on Risto, the problem was overpaying to take that chance.
They're right to start York and Zamula in LHV, York had a slow start and was uneven in camp, Zamula is just getting healthy.
They're 20 and 21 and lost PT to COVID, rushing them will neither make the team better or help their development.
I'd rather err on the side of caution, b/c both could be in the top 4 next year.

So you are saying Fletcher is a problem? Wholeheartedly agree...

 

[FLYguy3911]

The thing that really boggles my mind is that Sanheim is at his best in the O-zone creating offense. This coaching staff in their infinite wisdom view him as their 5th best offensive D-man giving him no PP time but regular PK duties. Risto getting shifts in OT last night before Sanheim was just comical.

Tbf Sanheim did get a shift before Risto. It was just a short shift. Obviously choosing him for OT is not smart, but the real problem was that they had a chance to make a change during a whistle and just left him out there and then the goal. Again, I don't know if he was at fault but the process was flawed. He shouldn't have been out there. He makes no plays.

His usage right now is entirely reputation based - top 4, PP, PK, OT. I'll have respect for AV if puts his big boy pants on and gives Braun his ES minutes if Ellis returns.