Player Discussion Rasmus Andersson breakout

[Lunatik]

How? He's statistically been one of the best shutdown dmen 4 out of the last 5 seasons?

"advanced" metrics for defense are more than flawed, they're practically useless since they are all corsi/shot based. He's an excellent offensive defenseman, which massively skews those numbers.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

"advanced" metrics for defense are more than flawed, they're practically useless since they are all corsi/shot based. He's an excellent offensive defenseman, which massively skews those numbers.

Bad take, he is consistently one of the best defensemen every year in preventing zone entries.

 

[Lunatik]

Bad take, he is consistently one of the best defensemen every year in preventing zone entries.

well f*** if a single aspect of the position says so...

talk about bad takes

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

well f*** if a single aspect of the position says so...

talk about bad takes

Well you told me things like corsi, xGA, and Def WAR are useless stats so I didn't bother mentioning how dominant he's been in them

 

[Kahvi]

I'd re-sign him, if he's willing to do a reasonable deal. 6 years at maybe $7M per*. Make sure you know what he wants to do, and if there's no clear reply, see what the market is at the TDL, 50% retained if needed.

If there isn't good enough deal, wait until July, and see again if he's willing to sign, and if not, trade him.

So basically it all depends what he's asking for.
*no idea what's the market price for Andersson calibre players.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

*no idea what's the market price for Andersson calibre players.

Darnell Nurse contract. Especially if he keeps putting up the points.

 

[Mobiandi]

Well considering he is still under contract for 2 years and his next contract will almost double his AAV at likely max term, your suggestion is we keep him for 2-3 out of 8 good years left? Seems like flawed logic

I used the wrong word. Elite is what I meant. You trade Rasmus and you’ll be searching for another Rasmus for a long time.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I used the wrong word. Elite is what I meant. You trade Rasmus and you’ll be searching for another Rasmus for a long time.

We just drafted Parekh who's ceiling is much higher than Ras's. Had we not gone from last to arguably 1st in RD prospect depth since last year I would have been completely on board with extending him

 

[Yepthatsme]

We just drafted Parekh who's ceiling is much higher than Ras's. Had we not gone from last to arguably 1st in RD prospect depth since last year I would have been completely on board with extending him

I’m starting to see the logic on both sides. On one hand we have strong internal replacements, so if we can trade Andersson to fix our hole at C prospects you do it. On the other hand, a 6 year deal for Andersson makes this an extremely smooth transition to handing over the reigns to one of Brzustewicz or more likely Parekh. They’ll be 24-25 as the deal hits it last year or two, and should be fully ready to take the mantle. Also helps us ease them in over the next few years, if we trade Andersson we have absolutely no one to insulate them behind.

Bahl-Andersson
Weegar-Parekh
X-Brzustewicz

That could take us right back to having an elite defense in 4-5 years.

 

[JPeeper]

If Ras keeps up his play he'll be wanting at minimum $9+ mil for 7/8 years for his next contract. We could get an absolute haul for him if we traded him (way more than Hanifin IMO), but you look at teams like San Jose or Chicago who went full tear down and have no d-men and look to be bad (like really really bad) teams for 3+ more years before becoming just mediocre. Buffalo had to draft two first overalls and I'd argue the Flames still have a better d-core overall.

^^^ if Flames have faith in Parekh and Bru, I move him, they're both projected to be top 4ish guys and if you sign Ras long term one of them is either playing LD, or bottom pairing going forward.

 

[Yepthatsme]

If Ras keeps up his play he'll be wanting at minimum $9+ mil for 7/8 years for his next contract. We could get an absolute haul for him if we traded him (way more than Hanifin IMO), but you look at teams like San Jose or Chicago who went full tear down and have no d-men and look to be bad (like really really bad) teams for 3+ more years before becoming just mediocre. Buffalo had to draft two first overalls and I'd argue the Flames still have a better d-core overall.

^^^ if Flames have faith in Parekh and Bru, I move him, they're both projected to be top 4ish guys and if you sign Ras long term one of them is either playing LD, or bottom pairing going forward.

Bottom pairing until about the age of 23-24, a young age for a defenseman still and an age where it’s still not the worst idea to be sheltered. Bottom pairing isn’t equivocal to playing 4th line forward where offensive opportunities and ice time are limited, defense can grow their game extremely well there and still can see up to 17 minutes a night in the role. Parekh would almost be able to see 18-19 minutes in the role given the almost foregone conclusion he’d be our top PPQB as well, and would still be able to learn the defensive side of the game against weaker forwards.

 

[Zirakzigil]

If Ras wants to stay you sign him and dont even blink. Its not a question. Weeger and him can anchor the defense and allow the kids to grow and mature. Id happily give him 8x8 and not even think about it. Trading him and/or Weegar turns the rebuild into something like the Sabres, Wings and Oilers did. Year after year after year of failure and no growth.

 

[InfinityIggy]

He's like if Kylington was good.

Never been more true.

 

[Volica]

Never been more true.

Can probably find it here, but I went to the scrimmage in like 2015 or 2016 for the prospect camp at WinSport and my assessment of Razzy was that he looks poised and Duncan Keith-like back there.

It took almost a decade since that first time seeing him live, but he's pretty much there. Just controls so many aspects of the ice.

Honestly, I look back at the Hanifin trade and I wish we could do a take-backsies on that and extend Hanifin.
A blueline of:

Bahl - Andersson
Hanifin - Weegar

Would actually be among the best in the NHL.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Can probably find it here, but I went to the scrimmage in like 2015 or 2016 for the prospect camp at WinSport and my assessment of Razzy was that he looks poised and Duncan Keith-like back there.

It took almost a decade since that first time seeing him live, but he's pretty much there. Just controls so many aspects of the ice.

Honestly, I look back at the Hanifin trade and I wish we could do a take-backsies on that and extend Hanifin.
A blueline of:

Bahl - Andersson
Hanifin - Weegar

Would actually be among the best in the NHL.

I miss Hanifin, he was criminally underrated here.

 

[Figgy44]

If Ras wants to stay you sign him and dont even blink. Its not a question. Weeger and him can anchor the defense and allow the kids to grow and mature. Id happily give him 8x8 and not even think about it. Trading him and/or Weegar turns the rebuild into something like the Sabres, Wings and Oilers did. Year after year after year of failure and no growth.

I was thinking 8x8 as well. It's a contract that ages well. Even when he becomes a luxury due to other RD options that pop up, it'd probably be an excellent value contract that others teams would be interested in and we could get good assets for him.

I miss Hanifin, he was criminally underrated here.

I'll give props to @Tkachuk Norris for not going all "atodaso" on everyone. He certainly was vocal Hanifin was our best when others were saying he was redundant with Weegar in the fold.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

 

[Lunatik]

lmao

 

[Volica]

I'll give props to @Tkachuk Norris for not going all "atodaso" on everyone. He certainly was vocal Hanifin was our best when others were saying he was redundant with Weegar in the fold.

As a Noah truther myself, @Tkachuk Norris is one of this board's best talent evaluators; both in terms of professionals as well as prospects.

In terms of Razzy, his production has certainly dropped off, but he's still a great top 4 defender and one that if he wants to stay long-term, you just make it happen and not even think twice. Watching year after year, teams like Ottawa, Detroit, Buffalo, Anaheim, San Jose, Columbus and the rest of what seems like the permanent bottom feeders cycle through journeymen and rookie defenders to insulate their 1-2 high end defenders just makes you realize how important guys like Andersson, and the aforementioned Hanifin are to clubs. Maybe they're not all-star top 5 positional players, but if you have a defensive group that has 4 guys that are top 35-40 in their position, is a recipe for extended success.

You add Parehk or Brzustewicz to this group, and they have a breakout... where you can move guys around accordingly; Flames could have a quick turnaround at least on the defensive side of the puck.

 

[Nanuuk]

I've soured somewhat on Ras this season. His decision making is often suspect and slow and his speed has diminished. He gets beat to the puck a lot in our d-zone.

That coupled with our depth on the left side makes me think, that if he were to be traded for great value, Weegar could slide over and play on his natural spot.

Weegs is doing that now with Hanley as his partner and they have been a very good pairing.

The argument now becomes the value of Ras staying to the value of the return on Ras. I'm good with either with the caveat that I wouldn't offer him a long term contract.

 

[Mobiandi]

This roster is in pretty big disarray despite our surprising wild card (at least for now) spot. Unless he specifically hands in a trade request, we need to extend him.

 

[Darth Vladar]

I’ve heard a fair bit of talk recently about the possibility of trading Raz, and I’m genuinely curious where everybody sees the Flames D corps five years from now. Below are the best of their young dmen imho, the youngest of whom will be in the 24-25 year old range by then. I’ve put their respective 2030 ages in parentheses. Parekh is a RH, but typically plays on the left side in Saginaw. The point is that even without factoring in anybody from their present roster, they have the makings of a potentially formidable corps there. However, if Conny decides to commit long-term to guys like Bahl, Weegar, and perhaps Raz, you now have eight top guys fighting for three spots. Throw in guys like Bean, Miro, and Pachal, and you suddenly have eleven. There are simply too many quality players for how much room there is in the lineup, and even though guys like Mews and Jamieson will likely need some time yet to develop, we could see Brzu, Morin, and possibly even Parekh making a strong case for themselves sooner rather than later. Solo already has ten NHL games to his credit. Worth noting in five years Bahl will be 30 and Pachal will be 31. Raz apparently wants to stay in Calgary, but I’m not sure he can be convinced to sign a short-term deal that would carry the Flames to when any or all of the aforementioned are finally ready to make the jump. Wouldn’t it make more sense for Conny to trade him while he still has a year left at $4.55M, obtain a package that includes a 1st in one of the next two drafts, and just roll with what they already have?

LD - RD

Morin (25) - Brzu (26)

Poirier (28) - Mews (24)

Parekh* (24)

Solo (30)

Grush (27)

Jamieson (25)

 

[Yepthatsme]

I’ve heard a fair bit of talk recently about the possibility of trading Raz, and I’m genuinely curious where everybody sees the Flames D corps five years from now. Below are the best of their young dmen imho, the youngest of whom will be in the 24-25 year old range by then. I’ve put their respective 2030 ages in parentheses. Parekh is a RH, but typically plays on the left side in Saginaw. The point is that even without factoring in anybody from their present roster, they have the makings of a potentially formidable corps there. However, if Conny decides to commit long-term to guys like Bahl, Weegar, and perhaps Raz, you now have eight top guys fighting for three spots. Throw in guys like Bean, Miro, and Pachal, and you suddenly have eleven. There are simply too many quality players for how much room there is in the lineup, and even though guys like Mews and Jamieson will likely need some time yet to develop, we could see Brzu, Morin, and possibly even Parekh making a strong case for themselves sooner rather than later. Solo already has ten NHL games to his credit. Worth noting in five years Bahl will be 30 and Pachal will be 31. Raz apparently wants to stay in Calgary, but I’m not sure he can be convinced to sign a short-term deal that would carry the Flames to when any or all of the aforementioned are finally ready to make the jump. Wouldn’t it make more sense for Conny to trade him while he still has a year left at $4.55M, obtain a package that includes a 1st in one of the next two drafts, and just roll with what they already have?

LD - RD

Morin (25) - Brzu (26)

Poirier (28) - Mews (24)

Parekh* (24)

Solo (30)

Grush (27)

Jamieson (25)

That is a terribly built defense corps, and depends entirely on a lot of player making our defense when I think the only 2 have a well above 50% chance (the 80% NHLer group) I Parekh and Brzu. I think Kuznestov has a good chance to be an NHLer (50% group) and Mews has boom and bust potential of being a top 4 guy if he makes it, but that still needs vets and guys to shield the newcomers.

I’ve waffled on the trade Andersson or keep him train, but now I’m firmly on keep him. He’s perfect to insulate Parekh and Brzu as they enter the league, and by time they hit mid 20s he will be slowing down and nearing the end of his contract. I think in 5-6 years ignoring outside factors this group will be flourishing:
Bahl-Parekh
Weegar-Andersson/Brzustewicz
Kuznetsov-Brzustewicz/Andersson
Morin/Mews

Plenty of potential, with old guys getting aged out with a group of 23-24 ready to force trades. There’s no way we recoup Andersson’s value to the team in a trade.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Ras is not perfect. He has himself a stinker of a game sometimes. But I believe he's now the 2nd longest tenured Flame after Backs. He's been through some highs and lows here. He's bled for this franchise.

If you've been watching the YouTube series the Flames have been putting out he's clearly a big voice in the locker room. Very vocal player generally which the 2004 team had a lot of. If he wants to stay and they don't go too crazy on the contract I'm 100% behind keeping him. He's a great top 4 D and an extension should reflect that(not upper echelon defenseman money).

Very hard to build a Blueline from scratch. It's really what can keep a rebuild floundering for 5+ years. I like a lot of the young prospects we've got going but it's very likely there's not more than two quality NHL top 4 D in there. The most promising thing about this season is the onboarding of the young players, and I think that having a cohesive locker room full of solid pros has had a lot to do with that.

Weegar and Andersson should make for great mentors for a lot of these young guys. But they have to be willing to use them next season and not clog the depth chart with a bunch of limited upside fill like we have now.

 

[Zirakzigil]

You keep Weegs and Ras on the blueline to insulate the kids, or you just become the Sabres/Wings/etc and create a losing culture thats hard to shake. In reality the Flames will be lucky if they get 1 top pairing guy and 1 or 2 other defensemen out of the prospects they currently have. Weegs, Ras and Bahl are the base of a solid foundation for years to come.