Ranking Dubas' worst transactions - #2

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What was Dubas' worst transaction?


  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .
So Leafs can keep playing by the rules, although if a team was cheating, you would certainly think the other owners would put a stop to it (or maybe they’re all waiting until they get their chance).
It's cheating that's hard to stop, because LTIR used properly is necessary. It's also not something that any team can just go and do. It takes certain timing with injuries.
Yup, we’ve brought in a ton of goalies, only to get out of the 1st round once in 5 years. But hey, let’s talk about all that regular season success. Meanwhile, Vegas was able to win it all with their subpar goalies. Of course, having a very well-balanced team certainly played a big part!
Vegas is not any more balanced than us. Vegas was able to win it all by happening to hit on a way bigger goalie gamble over a couple month stretch.
Totally agree it takes a team effort, but that should include doing whatever you can to help your team. Wouldn’t it be nice if Tree and Pridham had a few extra million to work with?
Everybody would love a few extra million, but that doesn't mean that our players should be forced to do something that nobody else has to do. Discounts are very rare, especially through a player's prime, and not giving out the massive discounts that people around here want doesn't mean that they don't help their team. Everybody in the world wants to get paid what they're worth at their job, consistent with their peers.
 
It's cheating that's hard to stop, because LTIR used properly is necessary. It's also not something that any team can just go and do. It takes certain timing with injuries.

Vegas is not any more balanced than us. Vegas was able to win it all by happening to hit on a way bigger goalie gamble over a couple month stretch.

Everybody would love a few extra million, but that doesn't mean that our players should be forced to do something that nobody else has to do. Discounts are very rare, especially through a player's prime, and not giving out the massive discounts that people around here want doesn't mean that they don't help their team. Everybody in the world wants to get paid what they're worth at their job, consistent with their peers.
That’s quite amazing that a team can time their injuries. Hopefully the Leafs can as well.

No question their goalie played a part, but you are just ignoring facts if you say they’re not a well-balanced team. Their 3 highest paid forwards make a combined $25.4 million, a total of 13 forwards at a cap hit of $48.2 million. A legitimate #1 dman making $8.8 million, combine that with a #2 dman who only makes $5.2 million, 8 dmen for a total of $28.6 million. That’s pretty balanced if you ask me.

Now let’s look at the Leafs. Our 3 highest paid forwards make $32.5 million (I believe we are the only team in the league paying 3 forwards this much money), 13 forwards in total making $58.5 million. Playoff Rielly is definitely a top 2 dman, he makes $7.5 million. Then we might have 2 top 4 dmen (1 if we see latter part of season and playoff Brodie), and the rest are #5 and #6 dmen, 7 dmen in total making a combined $21.9 million. Can we afford another dman at $7 million? Simple and only answer, at least right now, is no, due especially to the discrepancy in how much our forwards make compared to theirs!

And you are absolutely right, no player should be FORCED to take less than they could get elsewhere. I mean, no other players anywhere have done that. But, as I’ve said before, it comes down to whether greed or having a better chance to win is your deciding factor. And I know of a few players (obviously on other teams) who have taken less than they could because they wanted to give their team a better chance of winning. We all know what Matthews’ and Marner’s choices were last time. Will it be different this time?
 
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Treeliving is his own guy. Grateful we don't have someone like Holland making the deals.
But who has the common denominator been in all of this? Yup, Shanahan, the same guy who was ready to bring Dubas back. I think Shanahan is a very hands-on type of President.
 
Our core players have done just as well and better in the playoffs than Eichel's performance this year. The only difference is Eichel's team ended up winning. We all know what the response would be if Eichel was here, didn't score a goal for 12 straight playoff games, and largely got carried by a 5m depth player that won the Conn Smythe over him.
Dont forget that whole broken neck thing. lol
 
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That’s quite amazing that a team can time their injuries. Hopefully the Leafs can as well.
You can't time your injuries. That's the whole point. But you can manipulate return timelines in some cases, which gave the team you pointed to an opportunity to cheat, circumvent the cap, and gain a big advantage over the rest of the league. It wasn't some master plan and team-building demonstration by a genius owner and GM. They got lucky in a way that gave them a big advantage.
No question their goalie played a part, but you are just ignoring facts if you say they’re not a well-balanced team. Their 3 highest paid forwards make a combined $25.4 million, a total of 13 forwards at a cap hit of $48.2 million. A legitimate #1 dman making $8.8 million, combine that with a #2 dman who only makes $5.2 million, 8 dmen for a total of $28.6 million. That’s pretty balanced if you ask me.

Now let’s look at the Leafs. Our 3 highest paid forwards make $32.5 million (I believe we are the only team in the league paying 3 forwards this much money), 13 forwards in total making $58.5 million. Playoff Rielly is definitely a top 2 dman, he makes $7.5 million. Then we might have 2 top 4 dmen (1 if we see latter part of season and playoff Brodie), and the rest are #5 and #6 dmen, 7 dmen in total making a combined $21.9 million. Can we afford another dman at $7 million? Simple and only answer, at least right now, is no, due especially to the discrepancy in how much our forwards make compared to theirs!
You're talking about cap allocation, not team balance. The Leafs actually had almost perfect balance last year in their offensive, defensive, and goaltending ranking results.
Your numbers also don't seem right. Are you looking at capfriendly amounts for next year? What does that have to do with what happened last year? We've shifted cap allocation from defense and goaltending to forward this year more than we ever really have.

Our spending was a lot closer relative to Vegas last year, but let's go with the general idea that we spent more on forwards and goaltending and less on defense. Well, we had a slightly worse (but still top-10) defense, and better offense and goaltending. So... what exactly is the issue? Both teams got what they paid for.
And you are absolutely right, no player should be FORCED to take less than they could get elsewhere.I mean, no other players anywhere have done that. But, as I’ve said before, it comes down to whether greed or having a better chance to win is your deciding factor. And I know of a few players (obviously on other teams) who have taken less than they could because they wanted to give their team a better chance of winning. We all know what Matthews’ and Marner’s choices were last time. Will it be different this time?
Discounts are very rare. Most of the players that you're likely thinking took them probably didn't. You likely are just misjudging their worth at time of signing.
Wanting to be paid what you're worth isn't greed. I know that it's easy for people to disassociate from those who make a lot more money than them, but everybody wants to be paid their fair share at their job, and remember that we're talking about which millionaires and billionaires get which millions of dollars. Top players already get underpaid in this league relative to their quality and impact both on the ice and in terms of driving revenues, and now we're calling them greedy pigs for wanting to get the same underpayment relative to their impact that their top tier peers get?
Matthews and Marner's decision last time was to take a fair, average amount relative to their worth, consistent with top tier players throughout the cap era.
All fans want these super discounts, but no fan should be angry with an average contract.
 
You can't time your injuries. That's the whole point. But you can manipulate return timelines in some cases, which gave the team you pointed to an opportunity to cheat, circumvent the cap, and gain a big advantage over the rest of the league. It wasn't some master plan and team-building demonstration by a genius owner and GM. They got lucky in a way that gave them a big advantage.

You're talking about cap allocation, not team balance. The Leafs actually had almost perfect balance last year in their offensive, defensive, and goaltending ranking results.
Your numbers also don't seem right. Are you looking at capfriendly amounts for next year? What does that have to do with what happened last year? We've shifted cap allocation from defense and goaltending to forward this year more than we ever really have.

Our spending was a lot closer relative to Vegas last year, but let's go with the general idea that we spent more on forwards and goaltending and less on defense. Well, we had a slightly worse (but still top-10) defense, and better offense and goaltending. So... what exactly is the issue? Both teams got what they paid for.

Discounts are very rare. Most of the players that you're likely thinking took them probably didn't. You likely are just misjudging their worth at time of signing.
Wanting to be paid what you're worth isn't greed. I know that it's easy for people to disassociate from those who make a lot more money than them, but everybody wants to be paid their fair share at their job, and remember that we're talking about which millionaires and billionaires get which millions of dollars. Top players already get underpaid in this league relative to their quality and impact both on the ice and in terms of driving revenues, and now we're calling them greedy pigs for wanting to get the same underpayment relative to their impact that their top tier peers get?
Matthews and Marner's decision last time was to take a fair, average amount relative to their worth, consistent with top tier players throughout the cap era.
All fans want these super discounts, but no fan should be angry with an average contract.
For me, Dekes, all that it comes down to is that it is my opinion that Matthews and Marner were overpaid on their last contracts. And they could really make a solid impression on the fan base to take less money than what they could get, or even to resign for the same amount they’re making now. You would think that would interest them, as it would be viewed by the fan base that they were all in to do whatever they could to bring a Cup to TO for the first time in 57 years. What a legacy that would be to have!!!
 
If I were to make a "Best Dubas transactions" poll set, what would be some homerun choices?

I was thinking:

- Drafting Knies
- Kapanen for top 15 pick
- Muzzin trade (?)
- Schenn trade
- Signing Mikheyev
- Drafting Sandin
- Mrazek trade to Chicago
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