GDT: Rangers vs Flyers 5 PM

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Using your “size” isn’t limited to killing people. He’s got a massive reach that he’s already utilizing pretty well, that is also using your size.

he’s inherently going to be tougher to play against than a smaller, slower D because he takes up more space and can skate with faster players. He’s going to be tougher to beat 1 on 1, tougher to corner on dump ins, etc.

we need more of this, not less.

I disagree. He needs to learn how to use it because right now, he's not really using it to his advantage. That said, he's only 21 so there's time for him to grow into his body and adjust. All I was saying is that Miller's size isn't really what we would miss in the unlikely scenario of us trading him for a center.

I wouldn't trade him because of his upside. It's too risky.

 

[E-Train]

I’m still surprised how much Rempe stood out. A 6’8 agitatior is awesome to see. Whoever said he got beat is totally wrong. He stood in and threw heavy punches against a nearly 24 yr old as a teenager. Loved all the after the whistle stuff in both games. The skating, which I expected to be awful, was good.

I’ll take that from a 6th rounder all day.

 

[chosen]

Using your “size” isn’t limited to killing people. He’s got a massive reach that he’s already utilizing pretty well, that is also using your size.

he’s inherently going to be tougher to play against than a smaller, slower D because he takes up more space and can skate with faster players. He’s going to be tougher to beat 1 on 1, tougher to corner on dump ins, etc.

we need more of this, not less.

The most important trait a defenseman can have, in my opinion, is the anticipation that enables them to get to their desired spot quickly. If a Dman can do that, he doesn't need to use his reach to compensate for not getting there quickly enough.

Last season, Miller too often was forced to adjust because his anticipation and instincts were lacking.

 

[chosen]

I’m still surprised how much Rempe stood out. A 6’8 agitatior is awesome to see. Whoever said he got beat is totally wrong. He stood in and threw heavy punches against a nearly 24 yr old as a teenager. Loved all the after the whistle stuff in both games. The skating, which I expected to be awful, was good.

I’ll take that from a 6th rounder all day.

A 6'8" guy who fights tends to stand out.

 

[E-Train]

A 6'8" guy who fights tends to stand out.

Thanks for the insight

 

[Kords]

In the middle of driving cross country and not able to keep up with these games.

Anybody able to give me the talking points of these two scrimmages? Would be much appreciated!

Cuylle and Jones were consistently great and involved in pretty much every goal scored.

Pajuniemi, Schneider, Barron and Skinner all played their respective roles very well.

Othmann took some bad penalties that cost them, but I saw some promise in his shooting.

Nils had a rough game 1, but adjusted well enough in game 2 and got the gwg on a snipe.

Richards got hurt very early in gm 1 which sucks and Robertson (and Richards) were out for gm 2.

Safe travels!

 

[jay from jersey]

I don't really think their spot in a line up will really vary.

Both 4-6 PP D, one as a trigger man, the other as more of the traditional QB. I don't see either guy being good enough to cary a 2nd pair at ES and will need a really sturdy partner to do most of the heavy lifting if they're going to play that high, even at their peak.

One will score more goals, the other will be better at running the PP. I acknowledge Nils as the better prospect since there is no more definitive production than goal scoring. I don't so much know that Schneider has more upside than either guy, but I do think that he provides more of what this team needs both immediately and moving forward. Top pair player? I don't see it but he could be that more stabilizing presence that one of those other guys will need to play with. If he's Cernak, we've won.

Think ur right about that brother. Good news is Lindgren -Fox is a proven first pair that should be locked up for a while. They work really well together and are battle tested. Each player really compliments the other, and frankly they should both have letters on their chest

 

[egelband]

Would have been nice if the Rangers, like the Flyers, had released their line ups, but yet another big "Don't care" from the org.

I think Korczak played but I can't remember hearing Berzolla and Grubbe's names.

I think I heard Korczak’s name but not sure which game. First or second.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

No to moving Miller, him Lindgren and Robertson are key to this build.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

The previous regime acquired the personnel that we're all gushing about, now, but you state they were losing while they were re-doing the team. That's how it works so I'm unsure what you're unhappy about.

If you like losers who have drafted potential, gotten lucky lotto balls, mismanaged cap, made way too many terrible trades, made poor coach hires and demonstrated little to no actual on ice success but plenty of incompetence then that's fine. I just want to see more than potential. It looked like the previous regime knew how to fail and disguise their failure as just part of a rebuild. But their failure extended well beyond the ice

 

[chosen]

Thanks for the insight

Sometimes the slower need a helping hand.

 

[chosen]

If you like losers who have drafted potential, gotten lucky lotto balls, mismanaged cap, made way too many terrible trades, made poor coach hires and demonstrated little to no actual on ice success but plenty of incompetence then that's fine. I just want to see more than potential. It looked like the previous regime knew how to fail and disguise their failure as just part of a rebuild. But their failure extended well beyond the ice

When you tear a team down it takes 3-5 years to build it up the way you'd like. That's exactly what they did.

The old model was pick up expensive pieces at the deadline in order to try and squeak into the playoffs. Did you prefer that way of doing it?

The Rangers are a top 5 organization looking towards the very near future. That's what I was hoping for when they tore it down.

 

[Ola]

I’m still surprised how much Rempe stood out. A 6’8 agitatior is awesome to see. Whoever said he got beat is totally wrong. He stood in and threw heavy punches against a nearly 24 yr old as a teenager. Loved all the after the whistle stuff in both games. The skating, which I expected to be awful, was good.

I’ll take that from a 6th rounder all day.

He did alright in the fight, but look at his visor when he gets up, its covered in blood.

Liked what I saw from him too!

 

[E-Train]

Sometimes the slower need a helping hand.

You wouldn’t be saying that face to face but ok

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Lindy = reserve LD

Uh. No. Lindgren's a #3 defenseman signed to a great contract. He's the heart and soul of this team. The idea that we'd cast him aside when he's in his prime is about as silly as it gets, bern.

 

[FOD]

I am really not that worried about losing Miller's size. He barely uses it anyway. When it comes to the physical side, he's just Brian Boyle on defense.

Not saying we should trade Miller for whatever we can get, I still prefer to wait and see if he hits his ceiling but his size isn't what I consider a strength for him.

Miller was third on the Rangers D in hits with 98 I believe. Not great but not bad either. Remember he's only played D for a short time.. He will get better and more physical as he matures.

 

[kovazub94]

I am really not that worried about losing Miller's size. He barely uses it anyway. When it comes to the physical side, he's just Brian Boyle on defense.

Not saying we should trade Miller for whatever we can get, I still prefer to wait and see if he hits his ceiling but his size isn't what I consider a strength for him.

The most important trait a defenseman can have, in my opinion, is the anticipation that enables them to get to their desired spot quickly. If a Dman can do that, he doesn't need to use his reach to compensate for not getting there quickly enough.

Last season, Miller too often was forced to adjust because his anticipation and instincts were lacking.

A. As already stated size is not just for fighting or big hits. A reference to Brian Boyle to make a point is actually very surprising here since he is a guy who was effective even though he wasn't a fighter or a big hitter - BB's size allowed him to take time and space from the opponents - i.e. use it effectively (and the reason why so many wanted to bring him back every time we talked about needed an effective 4th liner).
B. To build on the above point - was Miller effective in using his size and speed? If your context is that i) he stepped into NHL as a 2nd pair D straight out of college (where he didn't even spend full four years) completely bypassing AHL, ii) Miller still had a pretty limited overall experience in this very demanding position after a late switch from forward and iii) who, as should have been expected, hit the proverbial rookie wall in the middle of the season. Under these circumstances I think he was pretty successful and effective in utilizing his skills and physical attributes.
Further, there's no defenseman in the league who can be in the right position defensively 100% of the time unless your name is Lidstrom. So ability to recover in situation where you're beat or not in the optimal position is a big attribute for a defenseman and Miller already showed that he has it in spades. Is he going to get better positionally with his reads and anticipation? You followed prospects long enough to know that it's almost a guarantee that Miller will become A LOT better.

 

[will1066]

Uh. No. Lindgren's a #3 defenseman signed to a great contract. He's the heart and soul of this team. The idea that we'd cast him aside when he's in his prime is about as silly as it gets, bern.

Right. You don't remove Baker from Poncherello in their primes, right?

 

[chosen]

A. As already stated size is not just for fighting or big hits. A reference to Brian Boyle to make a point is actually very surprising here since he is a guy who was effective even though he wasn't a fighter or a big hitter - BB's size allowed him to take time and space from the opponents - i.e. use it effectively (and the reason why so many wanted to bring him back every time we talked about needed an effective 4th liner).
B. To build on the above point - was Miller effective in using his size and speed? If your context is that i) he stepped into NHL as a 2nd pair D straight out of college (where he didn't even spend full four years) completely bypassing AHL, ii) Miller still had a pretty limited overall experience in this very demanding position after a late switch from forward and iii) who, as should have been expected, hit the proverbial rookie wall in the middle of the season. Under these circumstances I think he was pretty successful and effective in utilizing his skills and physical attributes.
Further, there's no defenseman in the league who can be in the right position defensively 100% of the time unless your name is Lidstrom. So ability to recover in situation where you're beat or not in the optimal position is a big attribute for a defenseman and Miller already showed that he has it in spades. Is he going to get better positionally with his reads and anticipation? You followed prospects long enough to know that it's almost a guarantee that Miller will become A LOT better.

Lots of defensemen besides Lidstrom know how to position themselves and not constantly have to react. Fox did it last season.

I thought there were way too many times where Miller was caught badly out of position. Yes, he is likely to get better at it, but that is very far from a definite. Many defensemen never get better at that. Skjel is the most recent Ranger example of that and he looked much better than Miller in their respective rookie years.

It's tiring reading that Miller started at D late. There has to be a point where that is a worthless part of evaluating him.

Bottom line is that I think Miller will get better at D, but it is no sure thing.

 

[kovazub94]

Lots of defensemen besides Lidstrom know how to position themselves and not constantly have to react. Fox did it last season.

I thought there were way too many times where Miller was caught badly out of position. Yes, he is likely to get better at it, but that is very far from a definite. Many defensemen never get better at that. Skjel is the most recent Ranger example of that and he looked much better than Miller in their respective rookie years.

It's tiring reading that Miller started at D late. There has to be a point where that is a worthless part of evaluating him.

Bottom line is that I think Miller will get better at D, but it is no sure thing.

Again, you just used a Norris winner in your reference.

And I’m sorry you don’t want to hear about the context items but it is important to guesstimate what Miller’s learning curve could look like.

 

[chosen]

Again, you just used a Norris winner in your reference.

And I’m sorry you don’t want to hear about the context items but it is important to guesstimate what Miller’s learning curve could look like.

Okay.

Add Girardi, Staal, and McDonagh to Fox.

Also, Jones appears to have that same ability.

So, what is your guesstimate as to when Miller's years at D cease to matter in the curve?

 

[kovazub94]

Okay.

Add Girardi, Staal, and McDonagh to Fox.

So, what is your guesstimate as to when Miller's years at D cease to matter in the curve?

All these guys (including McD) have been beaten positionally and possess less recovery skills than Miller has already.

As far as when the context for Miller can go away - gradually over the next three years.

 

[Lays]

No to moving Miller, him Lindgren and Robertson are key to this build.

Lindgren and Miller yes, Robertson could be had

 

[cwede]

Lindgren and Miller yes, Robertson could be had

agree to disagree,
Robertson in queue allows Miller to be included if a trade opportunity for a special guy arises like a C w similar age and upside as KAM
(not a guy with broken neck, or late 20's w multiple knee injuries)

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Sometimes the slower need a helping hand.

oii, we had our fair share of on these boards in the past, but you're taking the cake these past months.

tf you so angry about?


edit: lmfao @